God is pro-life

[B5SnowDog]

Does anyone have the full quote for the first thing Pixie quoted? I did a quick google and can't find it. Since the second one is edited and taken out of context, I wonder how much the first one is too. I'm not denying she was racist, I just wonder what she really wrote.

Planned Parenthood has a PDF Fact Sheet with common false claims about Sanger and the rebuttals to those claims.

[valsa]

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle. I have a hard time imagining a racist wanting to do anything to "help" those of an "inferior" race.

While no doubt she was as nominally racist as most people of that age, her support of eugenics actually didn't have to do with race. She was against the "unfit" having children (mostly criminals, the mentally ill, the mentally disabled, and those too poor to have their children survive), not racial minorities.

As such, she didn't care about helping an "inferior" race as much as women as a whole. Try these quotes:

The basic freedom of the world is woman's freedom. A free race cannot be born of slave mothers. A woman enchained cannot choose but give a measure of that bondage to her sons and daughters. No woman can call herself free who does not own and control her body. No woman can call herself free until she can choose consciously whether she will or will not be a mother.

Woman must have her freedom; the fundamental freedom of choosing whether or not she shall be a mother and how many children she will have. Regardless of what man's attitude may be, that problem is hers; and before it can be his, it is hers alone. She goes through the vale of death alone, each time a babe is born. As it is the right neither of man nor the state to coerce her into this ordeal, so it is her right to decide whether she will endure it. That right to decide imposes upon her the duty of clearing the way to knowledge by which she may make and carry out the decision. Birth control is woman's problem. The quicker she accepts it as hers and hers alone, the quicker will society respect motherhood. The quicker, too, will the world be made a fit place for her children to live.

Birth control is the first important step woman must take toward the goal of her freedom. It is the first step she must take to be man’s equal. It is the first step they must both take toward human emancipation.

It should be noted that Sanger spoke out against abortion several times (she considered it the taking of a life) She wanted to strongly push birth control to decrease the number of abortions.

Lastly, it should also be pointed out that this was a personal issue to Sanger. Not only did she personally witness women and children die of problems that could have been prevented by birth control in her work as a nurse, but at her own mother's funeral (when her mother was only 40), she accused her father of causing her mother's death due to having too many child (iirc, her mother had been pregnant 17 times and given birth to 11 children)

[valsa]

Does anyone have the full quote for the first thing Pixie quoted? I did a quick google and can't find it. Since the second one is edited and taken out of context, I wonder how much the first one is too. I'm not denying she was racist, I just wonder what she really wrote.

If you look at the first quote, it's all chopped up to hell. No doubt those phrases were seperately sprinkled throughout the book and someone put them together out of context to make it look damning. Sanger could be a fan of purple prose at times (wasn't everyone back then) so it wouldn't surprise me if those phrases were used, like the second quote, in exactly the opposite way as the quote is trying to portray.

[Kaylee]

Does anyone have the full quote for the first thing Pixie quoted? I did a quick google and can't find it. Since the second one is edited and taken out of context, I wonder how much the first one is too. I'm not denying she was racist, I just wonder what she really wrote.

It's not actually from a full quote. It's a few phrases from quotes (mis)attributed to Sanger strung together to look like they came from one statement. I'm guessing Pixie got the quote from [link=http://www.dianedew.com/Diane.htm]Diane Dew[/link] or one of the any PP sites that uses her as a source.

Google wiki gives these sources for the tidbits:

"human weeds"

(Per Wikiquote) False, made up or misattributed quote. Listed on a few websites, but not found in any of Sanger's works.

Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated.

Unknown source, attributed by Life Education and Resource Network (LEARN) [link=http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html][3][/link]

"reckless breeders"

(Not exact, but the closest I could find. And I had to quote it because I thought of the Duggars & many QF blggers)

The third group [of society] are those irresponsible and reckless ones having little regard for the consequences of their acts, or whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Many of this group are diseased, feeble-minded, and are of the pauper element dependent upon the normal and fit members of society for their support. There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.

Speech quoted in "Birth Control: What It Is, How It Works, What It Will Do." The Proceedings of the First American Birth Control Conference. Held at the Hotel Plaza, New York City, November 11-12, 1921. Published by the Birth Control Review, Gothic Press, pages 172 and 174.

"spawning... human beings who never should have been born"

Eugenics aims to arouse the enthusiasm or the interest of the people in the welfare of the world fifteen or twenty generations in the future. On its negative side it shows us that we are paying for and even submitting to the dictates of an ever increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all—that the wealth of individuals and of states is being diverted from the development and the progress of human expression and civilization.

Chapter 8, "Dangers of Cradle Competition"

[B5SnowDog]

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle. I have a hard time imagining a racist wanting to do anything to "help" those of an "inferior" race.

From the PDF document I linked to earlier: "'I think it is magnificent that we are in on the ground floor, helping Negroes to control their birth rate, to reduce their high infant and maternal death rate, to maintain better standards of health and living for those already born, and to create better opportunities for those who will be born. (Sanger, 1942).' Other leaders of the African-American community who were involved in the project included Mary McLeod Bethune, founder of the National Council of Negro Women, and Adam Clayton Powell Jr., pastor of the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem."

[Witsec7]

>sitting in the old lady corner applauding, Valsa, FG, Snowdog, Aretejo, Austin, Gizzy, EmmieD, et al. Apologies to all I've missed, but I get tired of 'splaining Sanger's position. Seems like I've been doing it for decades. It get's fucking tiring. Thank you all for a fine job of explaining history and a very complex woman.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Arete]

Pixie, you got hosed by people who have no interest in anything but propaganda.

[shesinsane]

If you disapprove of Planned Parenthood simply because of (oft quoted out of context) statements made by the founder, you really should get out of the USA. The founding fathers had atrocious views on race, slavery, the rights of the poor, etc. You don't see many clamboring to shut down the US because George Washington owned other human beings.

[formergothardite]

It's not actually from a full quote. It's a few phrases from quotes (mis)attributed to Sanger strung together to look like they came from one statement. I'm guessing Pixie got the quote from [link=http://www.dianedew.com/Diane.htm]Diane Dew[/link] or one of the any PP sites that uses her as a source.

Google wiki gives these sources for the tidbits:

"human weeds"

(Per Wikiquote) False, made up or misattributed quote. Listed on a few websites, but not found in any of Sanger's works.

"reckless breeders"

(Not exact, but the closest I could find. And I had to quote it because I thought of the Duggars & many QF blggers)

"spawning... human beings who never should have been born"

Thank you, I figured it was all out of context.

[bananacat]

You can't abort a baby. You can't even abort a fetus. You can abort a pregnancy or other process. Anyone who uses the term "abort their babies" is trying to invoke an appeal to emotion and is not arguing in good faith, and is unlikely to listen to anything counter to her beliefs.

However, Pixiedust really needs to a take a basic intro to logic course and learn about poisoning the well and guilt by association. Both are logical fallacies. Planned Parenthood helps many people right now. It doesn't matter that Sanger was a woman of her time. I don't agree with some of her views, but she likely wouldn't hold those views if she lived today. But even then it wouldn't matter because of the what Planned Parenthood actually is now, and not what it used to be.

Pixiedust is really giving Pixydust a bad name. Let's all remember to not confuse to two.

[formergothardite]

I did not realize that there was a Pixiedust and a Pixydust! I thought they were the same posters. Thanks for pointing that out.

[B5SnowDog]

However, Pixiedust really needs to a take a basic intro to logic course and learn about poisoning the well and guilt by association.

Especially because she's stated that "the Catholic Church is the most pro-woman organization around... and in practical terms, the Church has probably done more for the physical well-being of women around the world than any other charitable organization."

[Minerva]

:doh: A dubious quote with zero context is not a citation.

Oh shit, John Harvey Kellogg was into eugenics? Breakfast cereal is corrupt guys!

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle. I have a hard time imagining a racist wanting to do anything to "help" those of an "inferior" race.

The truth isn't hard to find, it's just a matter of reading up on things before you form opinions about them. And racists have a long history of helping those of an "inferior" race. Again, reading...

ETA man, this thread is bringing a lot of secretly anti-choice posters out of the woodwork.

[Witsec7]

Oh shit, John Harvey Kellogg was into eugenics? Breakfast cereal is corrupt guys!

And enemas.

[Minerva]

And enemas.

And enemas. I always thought they had a shifty look about them.

[bananacat]

And Graham crackers were intended to repress the urge to masturbate. I guess I should stop eating them because they're associated with ridiculous sexual hang-ups?

[Witsec7]

And Graham crackers were intended to repress the urge to masturbate. I guess I should stop eating them because they're associated with ridiculous sexual hang-ups?

Dip them in Nutella and all will be forgiven.

[thoughtful]

And enemas.

I bet cornflake and graham cracker enemas are not very comfortable.

;)

[valsa]

I bet cornflake and graham cracker enemas are not very comfortable.

;)

Is it wrong that I'm hungry now?

[thoughtful]

Is it wrong that I'm hungry now?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, it's very, very wrong.

Not that I'm, y'know, judgmental or anything.

If you eat your graham crackers and cornflakes in a strapless dress, I shall look down on you even more.

[valsa]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, it's very, very wrong.

Not that I'm, y'know, judgmental or anything.

If you eat your graham crackers and cornflakes in a strapless dress, I shall look down on you even more.

I'll do you one better- eating graham crackers and cornflakes in a strapless dress while having my 5th abortion and before going off to my job as a prostitute.

[thoughtful]

I'll do you one better- eating graham crackers and cornflakes in a strapless dress while having my 5th abortion and before going off to my job as a prostitute.

Hussy!

Come and sit by me. :D

Oh, and I doubt the dress will be good for much, after all that.

[Maul the Koala]

I'll do you one better- eating graham crackers and cornflakes in a strapless dress while having my 5th abortion and before going off to my job as a prostitute.

I have a burning question! Is it a trampy, white strapless dress you would wear to the bar?

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a burning question! Is it a trampy, white strapless dress you would wear to the bar?

I don't go out to the bars very often, but isn't the first fashion rule of the pub crawl to wear something dark so that when you inevitably get a drink splattered on you, it doesn't show so much?

... Maybe it's a BLACK strapless wedding dress! Quelle horreur!

[valsa]

I have a burning question! Is it a trampy, white strapless dress you would wear to the bar?

First, to the bar. Then, to my wedding.