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God is pro-life


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My drive to and from work is pretty damn beautiful, especially this time of year. This week though, I was smacked with pink & blue ground flags all over the yard of a Catholic church - thousands of them - with five or six signs about god being pro-life and 'who will speak for the innocent'. All the fall colors and hills and nature slammed with pink and blue anti-abortion messages - also in pink and blue. It's just disconcerting to look at. But, whatever, I guess. Except...for the message.

Which god is pro-life? The one that destroyed all life on the earth in a flood? The one that killed people and families and destroyed societies for not living as he saw fit? The one who will condemn you to hell - not much of a life - if you don't worship him in the right way? The one who (according to some) will kill people for their actions? (Think pissing Anderson and his belief that Obama will/should be killed, gays should be killed, etc). The god who allows babies and toddlers to die at the hands of their parents or disease, for his will as some say? The god that makes people then lets them starve and/or suffer?

Where is the PRO life in this god?

The priest's blog - with pictures of the damned flags: frseanoconnell.blogspot.com/

Those flags are placed in such a number that the entire grassy area behind the guy in that picture is now pink & blue. I guess there isn't enough going on in actual lives they can take hours to plant tiny flags to cover entire areas.

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The god these fundies love so much is one fucked up dude.

I detest the term pro-life. I'm pro-life. I don't know anyone who ISN'T pro-life. Some of us just believe in reproductive freedom. Those who believe otherwise aren't pro-life, they're anti-freedom.

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God is Pro-Life****

****Life does not include the poor, homosexuals, death row prisoners, women, non-Christians, immigrants, non-whites, or anything in existence that defies the white-male-Christian agenda.

Fixed it.

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For that matter, if you believe god "knows" you and has a plan for your life from the time you're conceived, god allows a lot of babies to be conceived only to kill them before they're even born. Something like 20-30% (or more) of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

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God is pro-life, except that he created human beings to ALL DIE, eventually. Why would a staunchly pro-life God only create animals that end up dead?

If it's any consolation, Fr. O'Connell isn't original. An El Paso church does it and calls it "the healing field", although I don't know what they are trying to heal, maybe all the shame they've heaped upon women that had abortions? Apparently a display (pink and blue crosses on hay bales) in British Columbia was defaced earlier this week.

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:lol: Oh man, God being pro-life in any sense of the term is such a distortion from the contents of the Bible.

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At least a couple of times a week I see a van with this bumper sticker: Jesus is Pro-Life. From my reading of the Bible, he was, but not in the way that sticker means. Jesus championed society's outcasts, including the lowest of the low in the Palestine of his day--women. Somehow I don't think Jesus would be very pleased that his name is being used to support the old 1st century oppression he condemned.

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God is Pro-Life****

****Life does not include the poor, homosexuals, death row prisoners, women, non-Christians, immigrants, non-whites, or anything in existence that defies the white-male-Christian agenda.

Fixed it.

Loved this.

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For that matter, if you believe god "knows" you and has a plan for your life from the time you're conceived, god allows a lot of babies to be conceived only to kill them before they're even born. Something like 20-30% (or more) of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

:text-bravo:

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Catholics aren't fundies. Yes many are conservative, especially about this issue but not fundies. I am Catholic (probably not a good thing to mention)but I don't agree with them about this. In a perfect world there would be no abortions and all pregnancies would be born to couples who wanted kids (or those willing to have them adopted)but we don't live in a perfect world so because of that it is essential Roe V Wade stays legal. I do logically see where the church is coming from in this though I am mixed about it (I would likely only have an abortion in cases of rape or my health). To them they believe all life is special, and that is why Catholics traditionally also support helping the poor and also oppose the death penalty. So from a basic viewpoint I support this but from a logical viewpoint I also know that nothing is black and white, and neither is abortion.

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The problem is that these displays don't do anything except make people feel self-righteous, or make people feel ashamed.

These displays don't feed any hungry children, help any abused children, or fulfill any other social justice need.

Yes, there are definitely Catholic fundies. Check out the Catholic Answers forum or Fisheaters. Or google Alte at Traditional Catholicism. As much as I hate to admit it, there are very definitely fundie Catholics. (I'm lapsed and pretty much not Catholic any more myself.)

There is also a very disturbing trend in politics where the Church's stance on abortion is the only stance that the Republican party likes, and so the two have been moving closer. Rick Santorum, case in point.

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Oh there are Catholic fundies, but the church itself likes to say they aren't. That's what I meant about this, because too often Catholics are all called fundies when they aren't. I hope this makes sense because too often I see people equating all Catholics with being fundies but only a small percentage are that way (they are called traditional Catholics). Traditionally the church has been very liberal on many social issues such as helping the poor and I am disturbed that so many Catholics make it about abortion or gay marriage when those aren't important issues like the economy. I did online dating at a Catholic site and most there were way too conservative for me.

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catdogandbirdmommy,

Give us a little credit. We weren't all born and raised heathens and we're not all completely ignorant about Catholicism. Many of the people on this board used to be Catholic or have Catholic family members. I think there are a few who are still Catholic. So yes, we generally realize that there is diversity among Catholics and we don't need you to remind us that while plenty of them are fundie assholes, there are some who aren't. If it's not about you, it's not about you.

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God is the biggest abortionist of all. After all, 20-25% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, and if you don't believe in "spontaneous" and instead believe in god's will, then it follows that god aborts a whole hell of a lot of fetuses.

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God's not pro-life at all! Don't these people ever actually read that Bible instead of thumping it?

Numbers 31:15-17

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him
.

Hosea 9:14

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

Hosea 9:16

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

Hosea 13:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

2 Samuel 12:14

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
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The hell there aren't Catholic fundies. The head of our local diocese is well known for advocating hiv/aids be stopped in Africa via celibacy prayer. That's pretty fundamentalist.

I do so hate when Catholics prattle on about how much better their religion is to protestant fundamentalism. Yes, we have nicer churches and our music is better than the that of the newer denominations, but all the incense in the world doesn't make up for the fact that socially Catholicism is absolutely on the same page as the happy clappers.

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I wonder how anti-choicers can rationalize the fact that so many pregnancies end in natural spontaneous abortions. I had a conversation with my Catholic "pro-life" aunt about this and she seemed very shocked and disturbed by that fact. I kept asking her why her God would create a reproductive system that allows for that if he hates abortion so much. I got crickets. It's been almost a year since we first had that conversation and she still hasn't gotten back to me (she was going to ask her priest). I think she just doesn't want to think about it.

And, yes...if the God of the bible is "pro-life," I am Spiderman.

* I'm sure the answer would be something about original sin, but that does nothing to help the apologists with this (and the rest of the problem of evil) IMO.

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The churches I've belonged to never pulled any stunts like this, thank goodness....even when I was in Catholic school.

Just lectures about how bad being Pro-Choice is was all I ever got. If my Church pulled a stunt like this, I'd be pissed.

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catdogandbirdmommy,

Give us a little credit. We weren't all born and raised heathens and we're not all completely ignorant about Catholicism. Many of the people on this board used to be Catholic or have Catholic family members. I think there are a few who are still Catholic. So yes, we generally realize that there is diversity among Catholics and we don't need you to remind us that while plenty of them are fundie assholes, there are some who aren't. If it's not about you, it's not about you.

I only said something because I keep reading threads where some are equating pro life people to being fundies but that is misinformed because being a fundie and being are not always the same. For the record I am not especially pro life (I support Roe V Wade)but know people who are and some are across the political spectrum including a couple of atheists.

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Anyone can be a fundie IMO. If you take your beliefs to the extreme and try and force them on others, then you are a fundie to me. And that goes for the atheists who try and force their belief onto my body by trying to make abortion illegal. Don't like abortion? Don't have one.

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I only said something because I keep reading threads where some are equating pro life people to being fundies but that is misinformed because being a fundie and being are not always the same. For the record I am not especially pro life (I support Roe V Wade)but know people who are and some are across the political spectrum including a couple of atheists.

It depends on your definitions of "pro-life" and "fundie". By my definitions*, being pro-life (wanting abortion illegalized or restricted to the point of functionally being illegalized) does make you a fundie (wanting to force your religious/moral beliefs onto the rest of the population as a whole)

Also, since you claim to have atheist pro-life friends, maybe you could ask them something I've never understood- exactly what rationale can you use to say abortions shouldn't be allowed that doesn't rely on religious beliefs?

* I believe my definitions are in-line with the most commonly understood uses of those words.

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I remember listening to a podcast (I can't remember which it was) in which an anti-abortion atheist was interviewed. I found the position to be very perplexing. I googled a bit and it seems like there are a few atheists publicly advocating this stance. It sounds like they hold the position that personhood should be expanded (as it has by many civil rights movements in the past) and not constricted. IMO, the situation of abortion is just not analogous considering the fact that a fetus is dependent upon another person and, logically AND according to Roe v. Wade, this is about conflicting parties' rights. Anyway...this small segment of the atheist/non-religious community exists, but I find it very confusing.

I think the idea of how to define fundamentalism is interesting. I'm sure it has been discussed on FJ quite a bit and I will commence searching at once to see some of the different ideas that have been floated. For some reason I always thought of fundamentalism as a belief that holy books should be interpreted literally. Not sure where that idea came from and I'm not sure it makes much sense. Regardless, it's interesting and I would love to hear other peoples' thoughts. For those saying that fundamentalism is tied to the belief (and/or actions) that one's religion should be adopted by or imposed upon everyone, do you think any kind of proselytizing then qualifies someone as a fundie? I think that could be a fair assessment, but it would seem to cover a very wide swath of believers and thus diminish the salience of the category.

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