Joy and Austin: It's the Final (Wedding) Countdown!

[Jug Band Baby]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

And I did not say that the poster should tell her daughter, "hey, we're not talking about this because you might change your mind". My point, as others surmised already, was that the mom should not count on her daughter having the wedding that they have apparently planned on right now when she is 17. Because she might not want that when the time comes. Or she might not want to get married. Or she might not find a partner. That is reality.

And marriage really doesn't seem to me to be a goal one reaches for--how exactly do you achieve that? Go find anyone who is single and drag him/her to the courthouse? 

I have a kid who wants a pink wedding dress.  It doesn't matter how many times she may change her mind.  Right now she wants pink, and so I'm not going to sit here and tell her she'll probably change her mind.  If/when she does, then the vision will change.  Favorite colors change.  Favorite foods change.  Do you ignore those things because minds might change?

Marriage is a goal many people have.  Finding a permanent partner.  A marriage license confers rights and privileges you don't get without it.  There's nothing wrong with having a goal of finding a partner to marry.  It's fine to not want one, and it's fine to have a goal of marrying.

[Elvis Presby]

42 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Just dropping into the thread to say that I heard "It's the Final Countdown" on the radio coming home from Target a while ago.   The thought of Joy getting married already depresses me.

My youngest loves The Final Countdown above all other songs.  I love it too!  I was a teenager in the 80s.  Then I found out about Arrested Development.  Poor Gob Bluth!  That song is a winner on so many levels!

[Carm_88]

8 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

I have a kid who wants a pink wedding dress.  It doesn't matter how many times she may change her mind.  Right now she wants pink, and so I'm not going to sit here and tell her she'll probably change her mind.  If/when she does, then the vision will change.  Favorite colors change.  Favorite foods change.  Do you ignore those things because minds might change?

Nope, but you take it all with a healthy grain of salt. I don't think @louisa05 was telling anyone to shoot down their child's dreams. She was saying "This is now, this may not be when the kid marries." In other words, smile and nod, and know very well that it might be nothing like that. 

[Jug Band Baby]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

@Jug Band Baby, please tell me your ex-friend's abortion comment was a joke.

I wish I was.  That was not her only demand, just the demand that can't be forgiven or laughed at.  It's easy to laugh at her demand that we keep or dye our hair brown and grow it to at least bra strap length and go to the gym at least 5 days a week so she could have the "hottest" bridal party.  She should have been on that show Bridezillas.

[louisa05]

@Jug Band Baby I honestly have no idea what you want from me. First of all, this latest response is kind of like you didn't even read what you quoted. Again, I never said that anyone should tell their kid "oh, you might change your mind". If your daughter says she wants a pink wedding dress, smile and say okay. But I would suggest not going out and buying it now. Because by the time she gets married, she might want white or ivory or purple with a print of green puppies. Or she might never get married and that should not be a shock, devastation or world ending nightmare to you or her or anyone else. 

Secondly, I am not opposed to marriage as you seem to be implying. I am married. Happily. 

As for marriage being a "goal" that people set...fine, do it. But that is a far different goal than getting a degree or working in a certain field. You achieve those goals by going out and doing the work necessary to get them. It's all on you. Getting married requires another person agreeing to make a lifelong commitment. If you force that to happen (and I know two women who basically did), you probably aren't going to find it all very pleasant. But, honestly, you typically can't go out and just make that happen. Some people get lucky. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones who "met the love of your life in a dorm hallway when you were 18", to borrow a quote from How I Met Your Mother. Good for you, but I'm not sure that means you need to get pissed off at those of us who weren't that lucky or anyone who points out that it doesn't work out that easily (or at all) for everyone. 

The notion that a girl not growing up and getting married is a devastating shock is, frankly, the exact patriarchy most people on this forum disagree with. 

[Maggie Mae]

47 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

 A marriage license confers rights and privileges you don't get without it.  

What exactly are these rights and privileges? And why? 

[CorruptionInc.]

3 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

My ex-best friend told all of us chosen to be in her wedding party not to get pregnant unless we we willing to get an abortion before the wedding since she didn't want anyone looking fat or for any pregnant belly to take any attention away from her.  

I knew a woman that was furious that her matron of honour was going to be pregnant at her wedding. Her exact words were: "this is MY day and it's not about HER! How dare she be pregnant at my wedding!".

I didn't like that woman already, but after that comment...

[louisa05]

14 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

What exactly are these rights and privileges? And why? 

You get some rights pertaining to the marital relationship. My mom could sign my dad into the hospital when he could no longer sign his own name. I could not without a Power of Attorney. A partner not married to someone would not be able to without a POA, either. A woman on a cancer caregiver support forum I use was devastated when her partner died and his father came and took the body for cremation against her wishes. Unfortunately, in the absence of legal documentation, with no marriage, the father was the next of kin and had that right. 

But if there are rights pertaining to general life (rather than specific to a relationship) that a single person is denied, I'm not sure what those are. No one told me. 

[Maggie Mae]

29 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

But that is a far different goal than getting a degree or working in a certain field. You achieve those goals by going out and doing the work necessary to get them. It's all on you. Getting married requires another person agreeing to make a lifelong commitment.

I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea of getting married as a goal, TBH. A milestone, sure. A memorable event? Yes. But an actual goal? I mean, when I set goals - let's say I want to run a marathon. I have a plan for that. I determine which marathon I want to do, look at the course, determine my level of fitness and what I need to do for training. If it's hilly, I add hill repeats into my training schedule. Then I create a schedule and schedule my life around work and than. (Side note: I have not run a full marathon.) If I want to make more money, I create a plan - I figure out what value I'm bringing to my company and negotiate a raise. I schedule the meeting, I practice my ask. If I want to go back to school, I would figure out a plan to pay for it and the work out the scheduling. 

If I want to get married I what? Beg my boyfriend repeatedly? Poke holes in the condoms? Break up with him and download Tinder?  

 

29 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The notion that a girl not growing up and getting married is a devastating shock is, frankly, the exact patriarchy most people on this forum disagree with. 

Preach it. 

[sunshine]

I wonder if today is the wedding. Amy posted a pick of her dress for the wedding yesterday and stated that she is getting her hair done today.

[16strong]

5 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

I knew a woman that was furious that her matron of honour was going to be pregnant at her wedding. Her exact words were: "this is MY day and it's not about HER! How dare she be pregnant at my wedding!".

I didn't like that woman already, but after that comment...

My best friend's sister (member of wedding party) was in her 3rd trimester when friend got married. Sister and husband had tried to get pregnant for years, but docs told her that she was essentially infertile, and would be unlikely to ever conceive. So, they decided to adopt, but had no luck with anyone selecting their profile. Due to a medication for an autoimmune disorder she had, her fertility spiked, and she got pregnant. Friend's sis now has two adorable kiddos. Had friend told sis it wasn't about her, she would have gotten slapped silly by virtually everyone.

[louisa05]

25 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

If I want to get married I what? Beg my boyfriend repeatedly? Poke holes in the condoms? Break up with him and download Tinder?  

Well, I have a relative who wanted to get married very badly and didn't even have a boyfriend. So at 31, she found a guy online from another country who wanted to come to the U.S to go to school and couldn't get a student visa (or any kind of visa for that matter). 

I guess that's one way. But even though they have now been together for 15 years, that is not a happy marriage. After about ten years of openly despising each other, they have moved on to living totally separate lives. I'm not sure why they don't just get divorced. He has his green card now. 

But, hey, she set a goal and achieved it, right? And beat me to the altar by 7 years, so obviously, she is better at achieving life goals than me. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I can't believe someone actually told potential bridesmaids not to get pregnant unless they choose to get an abortion. My cousin was head bridesmaid last year at two wedding's while 8 months pregnant. Her pregnancy was a surprise and she decided she would still be bridesmaid for her sister and sister in law. Both Brides chose a dress for her that would accommodate a growing bump and she looked beautiful. 

[VelociRapture]

My sister was just about seven months pregnant when she was my MOH. I love that I can show my nephew our wedding photos, point to her bump, and tell him he was there too. 

Plus, she was pretty much the most adorable pregnant woman ever. She totally rocked the dress she picked.

1 hour ago, sunshine said:

I wonder if today is the wedding. Amy posted a pick of her dress for the wedding yesterday and stated that she is getting her hair done today.

She stated it was the most perfect dress for an evening wedding - not THE wedding. Lol!

But she, Deanna, and Grandma Mary did get their hair done together. So it's possible they were getting ready or it's possible they were getting their hair prepped for the actual wedding day (like touching up color or getting a trim or something.)

@Maggie MaeI personally view marriage and motherhood more as wishes than goals. Earning my college degree was a goal. Eventually being able to walk the dog more than a half-mile before she throws a temper tantrum, lays down, and refuses to move is a current goal (she's so fucking stubborn - she legit throws tantrums if I don't let her do what she wants when she wants it. )

[Rachel333]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Why would it necessarily be 'crushing' to not get married? Not everyone wants to. You can have a partner and not marry them. You can be happily single your entire life. Even wanting to get married and having it never happen doesn't necessarily have to be crushing. What's more crushing is this idea that being single necessarily = misery, or that thinking that your teenage daughter might not get married even though she currently wants to is something shocking or devastating.

Yes!

Related to this topic, the way people talk about Jana on here drives me nuts. Without actually knowing how she feels, they act like she's sad and old for being an unmarried 27-year-old, and then say that it's not that they believe that, it's just what fundies believe. Even if that's true (which I don't believe it completely is), I hate seeing people perpetuate that belief.

[HermioneSparrow]

I think the definition of being "open minded" is accepting different types of lifestyles and opinions (as long as they don't hurt others). If someone views marriage as a goal, so what?! 

As a teenager my parents set my ultimate goal as being married and have kids, I said no a billion times.. I wanted to be a journalist working at CNN but no one supported me. Those views changed, I found my passion in teaching, and now I kinda want to have a kid someday but the fact I lacked the support of my parents has hunt me into believing I can't do anything, I have huge battles with my self esteem. Parents SHOULD support their kids no matter what, it's so important for development. I agree with both, dreams change and parents should be supportive. No need to attack each other you guys..

[sunshine]

Nope. False alarm. Some of the Bates are still in Tn.

[VBOY9977]

Krista Gay posed a picture on insta with Abby day, member of the day family, which is the family that always hosts her in Arkansas

 

maybe the bates will arrive tomorrow ....

[SamuraiKatz]

Smart money says yes. Someone saying they know the Duggars said it was an unexpected day and time - many are saying sunset this Friday based off that. Could also be Sunday or Saturday too. But I think pretty much everyone is betting on this weekend.

My guess is for sometime this weekend. Camp Fort Rock is bosting a privat family conference. Just an educated guess no inside info. [emoji4]

Smart money says yes. Someone saying they know the Duggars said it was an unexpected day and time - many are saying sunset this Friday based off that. Could also be Sunday or Saturday too. But I think pretty much everyone is betting on this weekend.

No one knows the day or wedding? Are they trying to make the second coming of christ wedding.

[VelociRapture]

27 minutes ago, SamuraiKatz said:

My guess is for sometime this weekend. Camp Fort Rock is bosting a privat family conference. Just an educated guess no inside info.

No one knows the day or wedding? Are they trying to make the second coming of christ wedding.

No. They're trying to prevent paparazzi or unwanted guests from popping up. They did the same for Jinger's wedding, though someone (possibly Jonathon Hartono) kinda screwed that up for them.

[Mela99]

3 hours ago, sunshine said:

I wonder if today is the wedding. Amy posted a pick of her dress for the wedding yesterday and stated that she is getting her hair done today.

I assume she's not IN the wedding party then?

[unicorncastle]

3 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

What exactly are these rights and privileges? And why? 

There are nearly 1100 rights and privileges that marriage affords a couple. Hence the reason marriage equality was fought so hard for, not some generic domestic partnership BS. 

Rights and benefits

Right to benefits while married:

Employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges

Per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating

Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)

Sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits

Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:

Veteran's disability

Supplemental Security Income

Disability payments for federal employees

Medicaid

Property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans

Income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates

Wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]

Joint and family-related rights:

Joint filing of bankruptcy permitted

Joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records

Family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison

Next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims

Custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce

Domestic violence intervention

Access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods

Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs

Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.

Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens

Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime

Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse

Court notice of probate proceedings

Domestic violence protection orders

Existing homestead lease continuation of rights

Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption

Funeral and bereavement leave

Joint adoption and foster care

Joint filing of taxes (see filing status)

Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society

Legal status with stepchildren

Making spousal medical decisions

Spousal non-resident tuition differential waiver

Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation

Right of survivorship of custodial trust

Right to change surname upon marriage

Right to enter into prenuptial agreement

Right to inheritance of property

Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)

For those divorced or widowed, the right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:

Social Security pension

Veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing

survivor benefits for federal employees

Survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers

Additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease

$100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty

Continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits

Renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse

Continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances

Payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death

Making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts

Responsibilities

Spousal income and assets are counted in determining need in many forms of government assistance, including:

Veteran's medical and home care benefits

Housing assistance

Housing loans for veterans

Child's education loans

Educational loan repayment schedule

Agricultural price supports and loans

Eligibility for federal matching campaign funds

Ineligible for National Affordable Housing program if spouse ever purchased a home:

Subject to conflict-of-interest rules for many government and government-related jobs

Ineligible to receive various survivor benefits upon remarriage

Providing financial support for raising children born of the marriage

Ambiguous[edit]

There are some laws that either benefit or penalize married couples over single people, depending upon their own circumstances:

Marriage penalty/bonus

Changing beneficiaries in a retirement plan or waiving the joint and survivor annuity form of retirement benefit requires written spousal consent

Wages can be garnished at a maximum of 60% (instead of the normal 25% limit) if the garnishing is for alimony or child support

[sunshine]

7 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I assume she's not IN the wedding party then?

I am wondering will they let her in the pictures. The dress was nice but not Duggar approved. ha

[snickers34]

3 hours ago, sunshine said:

Amy posted a pick of her dress for the wedding yesterday and stated that she is getting her hair done today.

She said it's not the dress for Joy's wedding in the comments.

[VineHeart137]

Yes, snickers34 is right. Amy said she wouldn't wear a dress like that to one of her cousins' weddings because she tries to be respectful of their beliefs.