Joy and Austin: It's the Final (Wedding) Countdown!

[just_ordinary]

Achieving marriage as a goal is indeed a different kind of goal than things you can achieve on your own. It is more complicated because it relies to 50% on your partner and you cannot control the feeling and actions of him/her. It is still a goal you can work for. But the work doesn't stop when you are married. Compromising can be work. Taking yourself back some time can be work. Making an effort for someone can be work. Dealing with in-laws can be work. Supporting someone in hard times (money/health/job/you name it) can be work. Sticking up for yourself can be work. 

I think the underlying goal is to live in a good (lifelong?) relationship (with children?). 

If this is your ultimate goal in life you might decline a promotion because you would have to move. And it is fine if your job is just not your priority. (But don't whine about it later.)

Finding someone who has the same expectations and wishes (marriage in this case but that goes for many things more) is indeed lucky. But succeeding in the long run is a hell lot of work.

I lucked out with my husband and we have been in one of the phases where everything just flows for quite some years now. But the working phases will come back. Growing together with everyone feeling he is getting as much as he gives is work. And it is not a lesser accomplishment than getting a degree. I value my marriage higher than my university degree because it defines my life and future plans much more than my degree or my job (and it is not that I don't like my job). It just depends on your point of view. 

Sorry for the long text!

[Lurky]

10 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

If kids can't rely on their parents to take their goals and dreams for their lives seriously, who can they rely on?

If parents are deciding that something their child says while they're under 10 years old should be a life goal to hold on to, and be disappointed if they do hit by eg 30, then that's a bit weird.  I mean, I'm sure your daughter has wanted to be a LOT of things in her life already - a ballerina, an astronaut, a doctor, a vet, a princess, a dinosaur, a cat, a writer, Dr Who's assistant, a film star, an Olympic gold medalist (all things I'd wanted to be by the time I was 9)  - and I bet you're not equally going to cheerlead for her to achieve all of these too, or think someone not supporting all of those, equally, is a bad parent.

I don't mean to criticise your parenting, because it would be equally bad to expect a child to be able to have all of that list, just because she wanted it at age 9.  But it's interesting to me how some parents will put a ton of pressure of their kids to grow up and do something, just because they wanted it as a child (even something as 'benign' as "you used to love the piano, why don't you play any more? What a waste of money your music lessons were")  - and then wail about not having grandbabies, or be upset their child turns out to be gay because the parent has had this fixed idea of what should happen to their kid, that hasn't come true.

[marmalade]

10 hours ago, sunshine said:

I wonder if today is the wedding. Amy posted a pick of her dress for the wedding yesterday and stated that she is getting her hair done today.

Could be for a casual evening wedding. She posted this about 5pm her time. OOPS! Fort Smith is not Fort Rock. I think the former is closer to Ben's native woods. I think Friday is still viable. Nonetheless, here's her result, pimping out her latest boutique. 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, marmalade said:

Could be for a casual evening wedding. She posted this about 5pm her time. OOPS! Fort Smith is not Fort Rock. I think the former is closer to Ben's native woods. I think Friday is still viable. Nonetheless, here's her result, pimping out her latest boutique.

Fort Smith is on the Oklahoma border, southwest of the Duggars. Ben is from the Hot Springs area, which is southeast of them (and further away than Fort Smith).

[kinphilly]

On 5/22/2017 at 3:48 PM, VineHeart137 said:

Honest question. What is it exactly that people find stressful about wedding planning? I didn't find the planning process to be stressful at all. I actually thought it was a lot of fun! Does it just depend on the person?

In my case it was parents in the midst of a messy divorce and out-of-town soon to be in laws who didn't understand a "yankee wedding" with actual meal and table assignments and such ...  and why they really did need to decide if they were coming and RSVP ...

[bekkah]

Marriage is a goal especially when you get older. Gawd, I'm at that point. If I want to get married, I have to work at it and plan. Its not going to miraculously happen because I'm just walking around. 

Re Jana: I sympathize with her. I am 27, I feel the pressure from society and my parents. My grandma doesn't think I will be married till I'm 40. I'm actively working on the project. I do take breaks but I'm also working on being a better person.  I feel for her because Jana doesn't work outside the home or have any real achievements. At 27, I have travelled (took a solo trip to a foreign country), graduated college, had a job and support myself. She hasn't had the chance to do those things. 

 

Re Joy: Same thing for Jana. But even sadder, Joy is ~10 years younger and hasn't had a chance to explore life. Most likely she will end up pregnant before her 20th birthday.  Hopefully, Austin and Joy will grow together and start making their own decisions. I don't see them going away from conservative christianity but Joy will hopefully get more freedom. 

 

For them, they are heavily involved with a social circle. And that is where you meet people, people you semi regularly hang out with. 

[singsingsing]

32 minutes ago, bekkah said:

Marriage is a goal especially when you get older. Gawd, I'm at that point. If I want to get married, I have to work at it and plan. Its not going to miraculously happen because I'm just walking around. 

Re Jana: I sympathize with her. I am 27, I feel the pressure from society and my parents. 

That sucks. Marriage is not an achievement. It can and should be a wonderful partnership between two people who love and respect each other and want to walk through life together. You can certainly do things to make getting married more likely, but there's still a huge amount of random chance, frankly, in whether you'll meet someone you're compatible with long-term, who wants to marry you, and when that will happen if it ever does. I know people don't like to believe that, but it's true.

How many people wind up in less than ideal (often far less than ideal) marriages simply because they were desperate to get married? Way too many. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high? Because marriage is seen as a goal to attain, as soon as possible, sometimes no matter what the cost.

You're 27. Twenty. Seven. You are YOUNG. You will be young for many more years. Your parents and society should not be pressuring you to get married. WTF? They shouldn't be pressuring you when you're 47 or 77 either. This isn't Jane Austen's time where a single spinster is a burden on her family ffs. 

If your goal is to meet a compatible partner with whom you share mutual love and respect and plan to join lives and create a family, that's a wonderful goal, and bettering yourself, participating in things you enjoy, getting out in the community, etc. will make it more likely to happen. Putting immense pressure on yourself to 'achieve the goal of getting married' will make having a happy and successful marriage LESS likely.

Being single is not the end of the world, and it's a hell of a lot better than being married to the wrong person.

[bekkah]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Being single is not the end of the world, and it's a hell of s lot better than being married to the wrong person.

It is in the midwest. Cultural values are where its at. People always say it will happen when its meant to happen. Yes, but you also have to put in the time in finding a partner. My point is that I grew up in a progressive home. Imaging how Jana must be feeling. She has pressure coming out of the wazoo. 

 

But, I also will not raise kids till I'm 60 either. I want to see my grandkids and I want to travel with my partner when I'm still young enough to enjoy it.  On top of that, I have pretty conservative dating values (nothing like the duggars but conservative for a 27 year old). My point is that you do have to make it a priority in life if you want it to happen. 

[ak1188]

The pressure in the Midwest is real and it's intense... My fiancé's family has been hassling him about getting married since he was in his early 20s and he's 37 now.

[bekkah]

8 minutes ago, ak1188 said:

The pressure in the Midwest is real and it's intense... My fiancé's family has been hassling him about getting married since he was in his early 20s and he's 37 now.

It is. I think people don't understand the real pressure that Midwesterners feel. I know most of my college classmates are married and they were all pretty much married by 26. 

[GnomeCat]

37 minutes ago, ak1188 said:

The pressure in the Midwest is real and it's intense... My fiancé's family has been hassling him about getting married since he was in his early 20s and he's 37 now.

 

27 minutes ago, bekkah said:

It is. I think people don't understand the real pressure that Midwesterners feel. I know most of my college classmates are married and they were all pretty much married by 26. 

Oh, this is a legit thing in the mid-west/bible belt territory.  Getting married young and starting a family ASAP is legit goals in this area. I remember people telling me my biological clock was ticking at age 19. It's crazy and inappropriate.  I'm from Missouri for reference.  When these types of cultural values are ingrained in you from birth, it's hard to see past them and realize marriage and children is a real legit decision and not just something everyone does.  It's a really hard mold to break out of. My husband helped me see the light so to speak otherwise I probably would have succumbed to that cultural pressure.  I did finally get married after 5 years of living with my husband but I haven't broken under the kid pressure. I very much now realize it is 100% my choice. In summary: It's crazy out here, ya'll.

Edited to add: I'm one of the very few people left from my class not to reproduce.  I graduated in 2006.

[OyToTheVey]

You wanna feel pressure? Try being Eastern European Jew and single at 34. I'm getting hounded left and right. It's so bad I have a long list of stories based on the guys that have gotten my number thru who ever decided to do me a favor 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

lol the south has to be just as traditional as the midwest. in urban centers (either region) it's not unusual at all to have upper-20s to upper-30s unmarried, but in less progressive/professional areas? the pressure is ON. if not directly by people asking when you're getting married (or telling to you get married)...then by the fact that EVERYONE else around you is getting married! and having kids, and buying a house, etc etc etc....lol. 

I don't think "marriage" is a goal. having a successful partnership, raising independent and contributive children, sure those are goals - but the state of marriage itself? any two people can go get married, whenever they want to, that's not something to work towards. 

[bekkah]

2 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

You wanna feel pressure? Try being Eastern European Jew and single at 34. I'm getting hounded left and right. It's so bad I have a long list of stories based on the guys that have gotten my number thru who ever decided to do me a favor 

Why is it that it always lands on the woman? I feel bad for you about the pressure as well and for the people who think its okay to give your number out without even asking. That hasn't happened yet but my sister has joked with setting me up with a gas station clerk. I'm highly educated and happen to hold conservative dating beliefs, I don't see anything wrong with that but don't insult me with your petty set ups. 

And people say I'm young but when you are surrounded with people who have spouses and 3 yo children, its hard to take them serious. 

[OyToTheVey]

22 minutes ago, bekkah said:

Why is it that it always lands on the woman? I feel bad for you about the pressure as well and for the people who think its okay to give your number out without even asking. That hasn't happened yet but my sister has joked with setting me up with a gas station clerk. I'm highly educated and happen to hold conservative dating beliefs, I don't see anything wrong with that but don't insult me with your petty set ups. 

And people say I'm young but when you are surrounded with people who have spouses and 3 yo children, its hard to take them serious. 

I think my favorite set up was a toss up between 2 guys: One was 13-14 years older and barely spoke English. I'm very Americanized so for me that's a huge problem. I get a lot of the just under 50 crowd who have kids and ex wives. Not my thing. I'm almost 34 sorry not sorry I don't want kid baggage. The other was a closeted gay guy. I loved talking to him but he was clearly forced into talking to me. Kinda wish we were friends. He was really fun but yeah that didn't go anywhere. Turns out everyone knew he was gay too. 

[Carm_88]

31 minutes ago, GnomeCat said:

Edited to add: I'm one of the very few people left from my class not to reproduce.  I graduated in 2006.

I graduated in 2006! That being said, I think there is always some pressure but I take it with a grain of salt. There are 2 going on 3 in my class that have reproduced at this point. I'm pretty content with my cats to be honest.  

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, bekkah said:

It is in the midwest. Cultural values are where its at. People always say it will happen when its meant to happen. Yes, but you also have to put in the time in finding a partner. My point is that I grew up in a progressive home. Imaging how Jana must be feeling. She has pressure coming out of the wazoo. 

But, I also will not raise kids till I'm 60 either. I want to see my grandkids and I want to travel with my partner when I'm still young enough to enjoy it.  On top of that, I have pretty conservative dating values (nothing like the duggars but conservative for a 27 year old). My point is that you do have to make it a priority in life if you want it to happen. 

You are young, no matter what others tell you. (And on that point, have you thought of moving somewhere where being single and 27 is not strange at all? It would probably be good for your mental health and also give you more dating options. I know it's probably a big change, but you've said you've made finding a partner a priority.)

I agree that you have to put work into meeting new people; I'm in the same place as well right now and I do have to consciously make it a priority. However I think your posts are getting pushback because they show a thought process that unfortunately often leads to a forced, kinda shitty marriage that happens out of anxiety. 

I understand not wanting to be raising kids at 60 (again, you're 27, you have about fifteen years before you need to worry about that) or being a young grandparent, but unfortunately, you don't have much control over that. And for the grandparent thing--even if you got pregnant tomorrow, there's no telling when your kids would have children, if they ever even did. It's a shitty fact of life, but you just don't have much control over these things. You seem to assume much more control over your future relationships than you ever will actually have, which is setting you up for a whole different type of disappointment.

The advice columnist Carolyn Hax has a great analogy where she compares dating to shopping for a sweater, not looking for a job. You have to have a job to live, and therefore often make compromises you are uncomfortable with. But you don't have to have a sweater. So you can shop, try things on, put them back and go home again to think about it. You can wait for the sweater that you absolutely love that is at the price you are willing to pay.

So, unsolicited advice from some overly opinionated chick on the internet who you don't even know--shop for a sweater, don't look for a job. 

[HereticHick]

So Cousin Amy and Grandma Duggar were getting their hair done yesterday?  Yeah, I am totally on the Friday wedding train.

 

Also, Franicia White posted that they are going on a "little vacation" --perhaps to the wedding?  

 

[GnomeCat]

10 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I graduated in 2006! That being said, I think there is always some pressure but I take it with a grain of salt. There are 2 going on 3 in my class that have reproduced at this point. I'm pretty content with my cats to be honest.  

Oh man! I'm super curious about your location and class size! Like I said, I'm from MO about 60 miles Southeast of St. Louis, in a small town off Interstate 44. Class size was around 150ish. When my senior year started, close to 10 girls showed up to the first day of school visibly pregnant. There were jokes made about it being in the water. lol  This put my parents on constant pregnancy watch in regards to my uterus.

[Jinder Roles]

Marriage is most definitely a goal in a lot of places. Just look at common inspirational quotes about "working towards marriage" and "praying for your future husband". It's assumed you will be married at some point (hopefully by 30) and you should have a good job and house by then.

I grew up in the Caribbean (middle class) and there's a weird dichtonomy here. It goes from "your books are your boyfriend"/"stay away from boys, they'll knock you up and hold you back" to "why aren't you married yet?.

Women who are college educated do tend to get married later on though. 

[Kittikatz]

18 hours ago, louisa05 said:

You get some rights pertaining to the marital relationship. My mom could sign my dad into the hospital when he could no longer sign his own name. I could not without a Power of Attorney. A partner not married to someone would not be able to without a POA, either. A woman on a cancer caregiver support forum I use was devastated when her partner died and his father came and took the body for cremation against her wishes. Unfortunately, in the absence of legal documentation, with no marriage, the father was the next of kin and had that right. 

But if there are rights pertaining to general life (rather than specific to a relationship) that a single person is denied, I'm not sure what those are. No one told me. 

That's dependent entirely on jurisdiction. In Canada, common law partners have essentially the same rights and privileges as couples who are officially married.  Common law partnerships can be triggered by a partnership agreement being signed or automatically after one year of cohabitation.

There is also a type of partnership recognised in many provinces called an Adult Interdependent Relationship (AIR) that recognises mutually dependent relationships, conjugal or not, and gives them official government status and the partners the same rights and privileges as a married couple. AIR vests after completion of a signed partnership agreement or automatically after three years of cohabitation.

There just isn't any real legal reason to marry here. Most people I've spoken with seem to do so because of tradition.

[Carm_88]

15 minutes ago, GnomeCat said:

Oh man! I'm super curious about your location and class size! Like I said, I'm from MO about 60 miles Southeast of St. Louis, in a small town off Interstate 44.

Look East, look wayyyy East!  Newfoundland, the 10th province in Canada. Overall grade class size was 60, I think. 

[Nashville92]

My dream has always been to get married and have kids, it still is.  I live in southern Tennessee and I mostly feel pressure from my coworkers to get married more than my family.  What I have trouble with is self esteem, mine is lower than low so I have no confidence in myself to ever find a husband.  I do realize things could be a lot worse and I'm just greatful I'm not in a terrible relationship. 

Any who I'm excited to see her dress

[divadivine]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:28 AM, VelociRapture said:

Carlin posted on her Instagram story last night. She was at Lawson's concert:

 

Hate to break it to you Carlin, but no lives were changed by Lawson's concert. Keep dreamin' Carlin.  Keep dreamin'. 

[Georgiana]

You know, at 27 I DID feel like I needed to work to get married.

At 29, I'm pretty much over it.  I own a home, have 3 adorable cats, a wonderful job, a loving chocolate lab...I have a GREAT life.  I have AWESOME friends.  FULFILLING hobbies.  Besides a few tax breaks (oh the horror!), I'm not missing a damn thing. Is it sometimes harder to be single?  Sure.  But you know what?  You learn how to do it on your own, and the journey ain't half bad.  

I know I want kids in a few years, and while I would LIKE the father to be my spouse, it's really not ESSENTIAL.  It's 2017, and since I can afford kids, there's nothing stopping me from becoming a single mother.  

Some of my friends got married just to get married.  They have since gotten divorced because they NEEDED to get divorced.  I would VERY much like to skip that experience, thanks, if at all possible.  

Your life is always going to be what it is, which means there will always be something that it is NOT.  If you spend your time obsessing over the things your life is NOT, you'll always feel like it is not enough.  But if you enjoy and appreciate your life for what it IS, you'll realize how many wonderful opportunities and gifts you have RIGHT NOW.  There are so many things that are easier to do when you are single....so do them!  Do as many as possible!

And just between me and FJ, I think I might have met "The One".  It's just that he is unfortunately engaged to someone else right now, so that's a minor hiccup.  See what happens when you rush into marriage and engagement?!?