Dillards 28: A Walk Down Memory Lane

[PennySycamore]

@Bethella,  I'm not sure what  Missouri's laws regarding midwifery and/or homebirth are now, but they used to be very, very strict.  Basically, no lay/direct-entry/professional midwives were allowed and, IIRC,Missouri also didn't allow homebirth even when attended by a licensed MD.  I think they've relaxed a bit now though. 

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

@Bethella,  I'm not sure what  Missouri's laws regarding midwifery and/or homebirth are now, but they used to be very, very strict.  Basically, no lay/direct-entry/professional midwives were allowed and, IIRC,Missouri also didn't allow homebirth even when attended by a licensed MD.  I think they've relaxed a bit now though. 

Lay midwives (without certifications) aren't legal to practice in Missouri, but direct entry midwives can practice with the ACNM or NARM certification (which Jill has). Source: http://cfmidwifery.org/states/states.aspx?ST=MO

Quote

The practice of midwifery in the state of Missouri is now legal for anyone who is certified by the ACNM or NARM.  Certified Nurse Midwives (CNM), Certified Midwives (CM) as well as Certified Professional Midwives (CPM) are legal to practice in Missouri. 

CPMs as well as CNMs or CMs may legally attend home births in Missouri. Midwives are currently practicing in both home and hospital birth settings.

Certified Professional Midwives are legal by Judicial Interpretation or Statutory Inference even though midwifery is defined as part of the practice of medicine according to state law. Therefore, anyone other than CPMs, CMs or CNM's can be (and some have been) prosecuted for the practice of medicine without a license, which is a felony. Lay Midwives are not considered legal to practice in Missouri.

[Born Skeptic]

7 hours ago, marmalade said:

FWIW, a poster on another site took the NARM exam online. She didn't study, finished the test in 30 minutes, and had a near-perfect score. So, that test really doesn't appear to measure much. And you're right, Jill is not listed as a CPM on the state's certification website. Granted, they haven't updated it since October, but I think that's because there have been no changes. The apprentice page was updated last week. You can find them by clicking the hotlinks on this page. 

http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx

I know that you are just reporting what someone else has said, but that is not possible.  In order to qualify to be allowed to take the exam, you do have to prove through a portfolio evaluation process that you have undergone specific training.  The exam is taken online, but you are required to take it at a specific pre-approved testing center.  It is administered in 2 parts - a morning session and an afternoon session.  If someone is qualified, it would not be possible to complete the exam in 30 minutes.

[Honeysuckle]

The discussion about the blog post led me to paste it into a few free online sites that check the grade level and/or readability level of your writing. Not surprisingly, they all gave different results. More than one of them came back with a score of 7th-8th grade level, which also is about the average reading level of adults in the U.S. Of course, just scoring the words used is only half the battle. It's hard for computers to really judge readability and grammar. I

I think perception of average reading and writing skills can be skewed pretty easily by personal bias. We're all here reading and writing posts on a message board in our spare time. This leads me to believe that there may be a higher than average literacy here. That could affect perception of e.g. Jill's writing level.

For what it's worth, none of the Duggar kids ever seemed very bright to me. That said, what's nature and what's (total lack of) nurture is up for debate. Maybe some of them had an intellectual spark that was stamped out.

[socalrules]

11 hours ago, patsymae said:

Why assume these people are not self/sufficient or that they can't cook or build houses?

I never said they can't cook or build houses or aren't self-sufficient. Cooking, carpentry and sewing are skills that can help people find jobs. They are skills missionaries should be teaching rather than making pinatas.  How many piñata making people does whatever small town they are in need? How necessary is piñata making in everyday life? Isn't the point of skills training by missionaries to enhance the life of the people around them? To help people find work and be self-sufficient? Jill and her band of lazy missionaries aren't teaching any real skills to help anyone, which should be the point of being a real missionary. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

10 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Jill's parents may have failed her, but so have the parents of millions of other kids. They become adults and learn to function, or seek help in doing so. I don't feel sympathetic to Jill or Anna, as they are adults with choices. I know the fear of the unknown can be insane and overwhelming, I've lived it. But I also got the right help and learned to grow and think for myself. JB&M are only part of the problem.

I agree, Jessa was brought up in the same house at the same time and she is fully capable of adulting, and with a manchild husband. Jinger seems to be managing, granted she's most likely got Jeremy telling her what to do and how to do it, but she is doing it with out mommy and daddy there telling her "good job".  I also agree that Boob & MEchelle fail the hell out of those kids, they don't have the education they should have, they don't have life skills they should have, Josh & Jill are proof of this.  But some of the other kids seem to be able to adapt and carry on, while others cannot. I think the biggest issues is Josh & Jill were treated differently than the other older kids, they were the "golden kids".  I imagine they were given much more positive attention and that positive attention was later used to bully (it is too early to think of the way I really want to word that) their siblings, like MOM likes me better than you, stuff like that. I also think JD & Jana had to step in and parent the younger kids as more and more of them came along  Jessa was roped into help. Si & Joy seem to be fairly self sufficient, jury is still out on Joe, he's so quiet he can come across as not so bright at times, but It could be that is is just a very quiet guy.

I think the biggest issue is the kids who had JB & M as their role models aren't fairing so well in life, the ones who had JD Jana & Jessa are doing much better. It will be interesting to see how Josie turns out since it seems those are the only 3 kids that JB & M seemed to really revere. 

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

Jill's parents may have failed her, but so have the parents of millions of other kids. They become adults and learn to function, or seek help in doing so. I don't feel sympathetic to Jill or Anna, as they are adults with choices. I know the fear of the unknown can be insane and overwhelming, I've lived it. But I also got the right help and learned to grow and think for myself. JB&M are only part of the problem.

Also, IMO, one has no business procreating a family of dependent children, if one still has the self reliance of a child. Once you make the decision to bring dependent on you children into the world, the excuses need to end.

Sorry Duggars- as long as you hang onto and follow all of JB's Gothard BS, you guys are all doomed.

[nickelodeon]

They did say in their letter that they were going to "provide various skills training for adults, Bible study, kids programs, and crafts" and I guess pinatas are crafts, but... can't they think of anything more useful to do with their unreasonably large budget?

[patsymae]

It looks like Salvadorans already have the piñata thing down

[PennySycamore]

@patsymae,  I cannot imagine that what the Dullards were teaching them approached the workmanship that went into those pinatas.   I see a couple of Spongebobs, a Mario Brother, and a Hello Kitty.

[imokit]

But those are heathen pinatas the Dillards were teaching them how to make godly pinatas!

[VelociRapture]

Why am I suddenly picturing some poor kid breaking open a piñata, only to find a bunch of Jesus tracs inside?

[Hmmm_idolatry]

@VelociRapture If I broke open a pinata and found Jesus tracts inside, I'd probably run after Derek and Jill with the bat in hand.  Nothing would piss me off more than getting their stupid tracts when I was expecting candy.  

 

[Chicken bones]

I had the impression that the pinata were some kind of cottage industry/child labor endeavor for export and sales. To bring money to these villagers, by way of a skill (of sorts). And that the Dills weren't  necessarily in charge of that, others were.  But granted, I couldn't read Jill's words twice to check. It was painful enough the first time.

[nst]

16 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@patsymae,  I cannot imagine that what the Dullards were teaching them approached the workmanship that went into those pinatas.   I see a couple of Spongebobs, a Mario Brother, and a Hello Kitty.

that's what the 24k was for - to buy the pintas

[Mela99]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Why am I suddenly picturing some poor kid breaking open a piñata, only to find a bunch of Jesus tracs inside?

Or those Christian jelly beans that pop up around Easter...

[mpheels]

The last time I attended a party with a pinata, it was filled with mini liquor bottles and condoms for a 30th birthday party. The airplane bottles did not work as well as we expected - even with plastic bottles, the rigid plastic lids broke when they hit the stone patio, so we had lots of split vodka and sticky condom wrappers.

[Georgiana]

I finally suffered through Jill's latest blog.

It really seems like her and Derick live almost separate lives.  It's always her and Izzy doing one thing...Derick out doing another.  

I'm an incredibly independent person and partner, so I by no means think they should be joined at the hip....but when I talk about things with my partner it's much more "we" and much less "me vs them".  Does that make sense?  

I wonder if this is part of Jill's distress?  That she is unable to latch onto Derick in SA the way she could in AR?

[RoseWilder]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:00 PM, formergothardite said:

I think this is also why the Bates seem smarter than the Duggars when they most likely aren't. The Bates have a lot of strong, out going personalities, while the Duggars tend to be more withdrawn. It also helps that the Bates have an approved Christian college right near them to send their daughters while they wait to find a husband. 

 

I do think the Bates children received a better homeschooling education than the Duggars. Kelly Bates makes piss poor life decisions, but I think she's significantly smarter than Michelle and better educated. Which makes it even more alarming that she's in a cult, but nevertheless, I think the Bates children are better educated than the Duggar children. 

After witnessing Michelle's attempt to explain bankruptcy to her children, not to mention that scene where they were at the Biltmore estate and Michelle said it was a good opportunity to learn colors and shapes, I'm not surprised at all that the Duggar children don't seem very articulate.  

[Stormy]

4 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I finally suffered through Jill's latest blog.

It really seems like her and Derick live almost separate lives.  It's always her and Izzy doing one thing...Derick out doing another.  

I'm an incredibly independent person and partner, so I by no means think they should be joined at the hip....but when I talk about things with my partner it's much more "we" and much less "me vs them".  Does that make sense?  

I wonder if this is part of Jill's distress?  That she is unable to latch onto Derick in SA the way she could in AR?

I'm hoping it's because Derick's busy with something and not that he's trying to get away from Jill; if so, that'd actually make me really sad. Even Jill deserves someone to be nutty with.

[onekidanddone]

9 hours ago, nst said:

that's what the 24k was for - to buy the pintas

And candy. Pixy Stix and and Dum Dum lollipops ate't cheap you know.

[CorruptionInc.]

43 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

After witnessing Michelle's attempt to explain bankruptcy to her children, not to mention that scene where they were at the Biltmore estate and Michelle said it was a good opportunity to learn colors and shapes, I'm not surprised at all that the Duggar children don't seem very articulate.  

Bricks are Rectangular and can be red, orange, brown and cream.

Weatherboards are also rectangular and can be any colour.

Guess what's also rectangular? Money notes!

Gosh Michelle makes me so angry... to deprive children of education...

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, RoseWilder said:

I do think the Bates children received a better homeschooling education than the Duggars. Kelly Bates makes piss poor life decisions, but I think she's significantly smarter than Michelle and better educated. Which makes it even more alarming that she's in a cult, but nevertheless, I think the Bates children are better educated than the Duggar children. 

After witnessing Michelle's attempt to explain bankruptcy to her children, not to mention that scene where they were at the Biltmore estate and Michelle said it was a good opportunity to learn colors and shapes, I'm not surprised at all that the Duggar children don't seem very articulate.  

I'm far from a Bates leghumper, but I agree that I think they received a better education (which is still not saying much, considering the writing on their social media...) Kelly does have a college degree and her writing was coherent and flowed well in her comments on the blog. Also, while Michelle loves babies but loses interest in the older kids, Kelly seems the reverse. So when the girls were turning eleven or twelve and could be her "friends" she probably also was more interested in their academics (which is emotionally messed up, don't get me wrong, but did at least result in a better homeschooling outcome).

I also think once she was old enough, Michael took over the education of the little ones. Again--a messed up family dynamic, but Michael comes off as having the patience and diligence to do a good job with early elementary activities.

[Rachel333]

On 3/28/2017 at 2:43 PM, patsymae said:

It looks like Salvadorans already have the piñata thing down

That makes me think of a birthday party I once went to for a little girl from a Salvadoran family from my church. They had a giant Dora piñata from El Salvador. The little girls at the party, including the birthday girl, were a bit taken aback at the idea of trying to bash in Dora's head.

[Coy Koi]

16 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

That makes me think of a birthday party I once went to for a little girl from a Salvadoran family from my church. They had a giant Dora piñata from El Salvador. The little girls at the party, including the birthday girl, were a bit taken aback at the idea of trying to bash in Dora's head.

That reminds me of this gif http://imgur.com/gallery/p9wnQ

So cute!