Dillards 28: A Walk Down Memory Lane

[Ali]

@Palimpsest

Spoiler

I think we probably need to wait a few days before we clean the carpet.

[MsSaylor]

Ive always wondered if the m/c caused by evil birth control story is even true. Not that they didnt have a m/c but the rest of it. I think they were already well on the path of Gothardism/Quiverfull by then. Which would be why they were already seeing noted Gothardite physician Ed Wheat and plugged him in their little ministry story. I just think they packaged this story as a way to not only explain their Quiverfull insanity but to also preach the evil borth control narrative in a personal and more subtle way. 

[Bad Wolf]

Maybe she just wanted to see how many down votes she could get. 

[PumaLover]

Regarding the whole "birth control causes miscarriages" thing-way back when I married my first husband (he was pretty fundie), I remember him being against the pill because I could technically still get pregnant and the pill would make the embryo not attach and he viewed that as basically an abortion. I ignored him and used it anyway. But I do remember in my early days of internet research I came across an article about a Christian couple who were against BC because of the abortion reason and also because it would supposedly cause miscarriages. This was probably 17 years ago but I'm wondering if the couple I read about was the Duggars. I have since gone back to try to find it but wasn't able to.

[Palimpsest]

31 minutes ago, Ali said:

@Palimpsest

I think we probably need to wait a few days before we clean the carpet.

  I tell you, we really should install more tile.  Harder on the feet but so much easier to clean.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

No worries, @bal maiden.  And thanks, that is a very good place to start.  

"In the light of the moon a little egg lay on a leaf ..."  

Love that book! Eric Carle's books are among my daughter's favourites. 

25 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Maybe she just wanted to see how many down votes she could get. 

Well she didn't break the record for most downvotes for one post, iirc that belongs to whoever said that Catholics aren't Christians. 

[Bad Wolf]

2 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Love that book! Eric Carle's books are among my daughter's favourites. 

Well she didn't break the record for most downvotes for one post, iirc that belongs to whoever said that Catholics aren't Christians. 

I missed that one. I'm gobsmacked.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I missed that one. I'm gobsmacked.

Iirc it happened in the middle of the spurge's name announcement craze. In that occasion there was also a heated exchange about some racist remarks in another post too. Iirc.

[Palimpsest]

25 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

iirc that belongs to whoever said that Catholics aren't Christians. 

WTF!  Did I miss that one?

[Fascinated]

44 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

  I tell you, we really should install more tile.  Harder on the feet but so much easier to clean.

As long as the rest of us stay away from you, @Palimpsest, our tootsies should stay clean.  But I think you should don your wellies and take this  to shovel the shit 'cause it sure seems to be following you around.  I am very concerned you won't be able to stand up for yourself. 

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

As long as the rest of us stay away from you, @Palimpsest, our tootsies should stay clean.  But I think you should don your wellies and take this  to shovel the shit 'cause it sure seems to be following you around.  I am very concerned you won't be able to stand up for yourself. 

Thanks for the shovel.  This one isn't very clever.  It could be a return visitor. 

I have donned my Hazmat suit and my wellies.  I also wield a very mean mop! 

 

[sawasdee]

@PalimpsestI can't get my head around the troll mentality. To go to a site purely to incite antipathy seems to me VERY weird.

At least at FJ we seem to be resilient enough to ignore/push back/piss take. Do they ever manage to totally derail? I can't believe that, even online, people are stupid enough to take them seriously....

[Hmmm_idolatry]

22 hours ago, singsingsing said:

They've been quite successful. From what I've seen, they're mostly converting families rather than youth, but I haven't followed it closely enough to say for sure. There's also a big evangelical movement to convert Mormons (which I'm sure has been more successful, for obvious reasons).

If anything, I'd think the Amish would have an easier time trying to convert Gothardites.  I could see the Amish lifestyle being appealing to some hard-core Gothardites who think that IBLP bullshit isn't fundie enough.  Yes, I know that the Amish don't convert people, but if they did, I could easily see a Duggar type family (or any family who has given up on trying for their own reality show) falling for the Amish life.  

[Palimpsest]

@sawasdee, they are just bored and hateful people who can only succeed in derailing if we let them.  Once smoked out, as this one was in a mere 14 posts, they are best downvoted and ignored.

If the Dillards would just do something interesting we could keep on discussing them.  As Jerrick are being very boring at the moment we'll have to keep on with the thread drift.

So the Amish or Michele and Jim Bob's claimed birth control miscarriage.  It is quite possible that the Duggars sincerely believe that the pill caused the miscarriage.  With that I can sympathise.  However, it doesn't mean that Jim Bob shouldn't have tied a knot in his penis at some point.  They were breeding for God's army after the 14th or so child and they were not able to parent successfully.

There have been a lot of quite horrifying reports of child sexual abuse, incest and rape within some Amish communities. If these evangelicals are actually working to help escaping Amish youth they may actually be helpful.  However, if they are just out to save the sinners through salvation by grace alone then I disapprove strongly.  

[marmalade]

Lest we forget, part of Pa Vuolo's ministry is converting Amish in Lancaster County. 

The name of his church escapes me, but all of the information is there. 

I also came across this little conference with a quick google search. Scroll down the list of speakers, and VOILA! there he is. 

http://www.amishawareness.com/featured-speakers.html

[bal maiden]

Oh, I hadn't clocked that connection, @marmalade!

[nst]

So Papa V is one of the amish and is part gothard which in turn Jeremy believes what the duggars believe and is quite moreso crazy 

[Lyle Lanley]

7 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Maybe she just wanted to see how many down votes she could get. 

 

If you're going to be a down vote troll, at least be a good one.

[SilverBeach]

8 hours ago, sawasdee said:

@nssherlock has been quiet for a day or so. Do we need to clean the carpet? Or should we wait and see? Don't want to have to do it twice.......

Troll or tone deaf. I vote for the first.

Troll. Bring out the nail polish, recipes, vacation plans, whatever, if he or she comes out from under the bridge again.

 

[marmalade]

34 minutes ago, nst said:

So Papa V is one of the amish and is part gothard which in turn Jeremy believes what the duggars believe and is quite moreso crazy 

There is no evidence that Pa Vuolo is a Gothardite. Actually, circumstantial evidence points quite the opposite. Most Gothardites are IFB; the Vuolos are non-denominational. Unless a ton of Jinger's wedding ended up on the editing room floor (as we now know happened with Jessa's hour-long affair), it seemed like a pretty standard ceremony. There were no vows to submit and there were vows of mutual respect and love. No "leaving the number of children up to God," although we all know that's how they will roll. I think Jeremy is more his dad's flavor of fundie, a guy who doesn't have a human intercessor between him and Jeebus. 

[DaisyD]

12 hours ago, sawasdee said:

@PalimpsestI can't get my head around the troll mentality. To go to a site purely to incite antipathy seems to me VERY weird.

At least at FJ we seem to be resilient enough to ignore/push back/piss take. Do they ever manage to totally derail? I can't believe that, even online, people are stupid enough to take them seriously....

Neither can I. I do really like the way the people on this site handle them though. Unlike other sites, trolls just become cat toys here. It's probably why they don't usually last very long. 

I don't recall any total derailment. Usually, if they want complete attention, they'll start their own thread (see Burris). Back in the day (holy crap, I'm old) people were less jaded so tended to be more aghast at things said online that one wouldn't say face to face. At least that was my experience. I don't take things said online personally anymore (99% of the time), because it's all been said before. That wasn't always the case, at least for me. Learning to ignore assholes comes with experience. People tend to get that experience younger now.

[PainfullyAware]

It's an interesting idea that they retroactively made the miscarriage story their 'testimony" for Gothardism. It does perfectly encapsulate the basic tents of quiverful. Maybe they had dipped a toe in the water (hence saw the Gothard Dr) but the miscarriage made them dive in head first. They both had had their come to Jesus moment in highschool already, right? So it's likely they were already circling some kind of fundamentalism prior to the miscarriage. I doubt they had an equal relationship and then Michelle agreed to be a helpmeet to her headship. It seems more likely they already had a dynamic where he was dominant and then found a form of fundamentalism that fit their dynamic. She was 17 when they married and not that much older when she miscarried, so it wouldn't be that hard to imagine she was vulnerable to accept that arrangement. Jim Bob likes power and control and IBLP sanctions it.

[patsymae]

On April 4, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Palimpsest said:

Fascinating.  I'd be interested in sources if you have any.  Of course, the last thing I need is yet another rabbit hole to go down!  

Check out the old series Amish out of Order," which goes into it a bit. Also on YouTube there are some videos

[Bugaboo]

Happy birthday Izzy!!

[lomo6]

I find two tendencies of FJers kind of amusing.

1) The tendency to speculate wildly about the state of someone's life/marriage based on a single photo. Kinda fawkward gender reveal photo? Their marriage is clearly hanging on by a thread. More relaxed-looking photo a month later? The Dillards got their grove back!

I'm saying this as someone who does think something seems pretty off about Jill and Derrick of late, mostly based on the tone of their social media presence and some of the interviews they've given on CO. But I think it's easy to put a little too much stock in individual photos, especially as I know some pretty miserable people who have very glamorous Instagrams (including a cousin who was being physically abused while "documenting" what seemed like a picture-perfect life and relationship).

2) The tendency to compare the outcomes of the different kidults' lives as if it's a reflection of their individual character. These kids were emotionally stunted, and given no options to grow and gain any independent sense of self before being married off to near-strangers and expected to start breeding ASAP. How successful their marriages are is more a function of dumb luck than anything else.

In the secular or Christian lite worlds, Jill might have dated Derrick for two years before realizing that she's more of a homebody. Then she could have found an accountant who wants to stay in Arkansas. I am not a Josh defender, and think that man needs some serious professional counseling. But in the secular world, he could have slept around a bunch in college, and maybe gotten married in his 30s and have 2-3 kids.

Yes, Jill and Josh are both adults now. But when they entered these marriages they were completely under the thumbs of JimBob and Michelle, and they didn't have older siblings' experiences as a guide of what to do or not to do.  

Not that I'm remotely immune to baseless speculation myself, but I do sometimes wonder what has driven me to spend so much time analyzing the lives of a Christian cult reality TV D-listers based on so little actual information... 

Finally, re: Jill's writing. I tutored high school students at an average suburban public school and have seen way worse. I also graded some papers as a TA and you'd be surprised at how many people can get into a name-brand universities and still produce incoherent writing riddled with grammatical errors.