Dillards 28: A Walk Down Memory Lane

[formergothardite]

41 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

All of this infuriates me, but I am so interested about where it's being used and how much they're getting from it.  I was bummed when no media outlet dug into that during the Joshley scandals.  Suppose it takes more investigation, but I really want to know more about where they use that bullshit and which politicians are helping fund that stupid character stuff. 

If you didn't know, you wouldn't have a clue that CharacterFirst! is an IBLP program. Officially it is no longer part of IBLP, but they still use the same curriculum they always used. 

http://characterfirsteducation.com/c/about.php

Quote

Character First began in 1992 as a leadership development program at Kimray Inc, an Oklahoma City-based manufacturing company. Every month, Kimray employees would study a different character trait and how it related to corporate values such as honesty, quality, safety, and service. It made such a difference in their workplace culture that in 1996, local school and police officials asked if Character First could be adapted to public education—and Character First Education was born.

What this leaves out is that the owner of Kimray was deep into IBLP and served on the BOD from early 90's till mid 2000's. There seems to be a whole lot left out of this story about the founding of Character First. 

In regards to the idea only stupid people would join IBLP, this guy and his wife were all into IBLP.

http://www.wesandbernadinecantrell.com/site/wes/

Quote

Wes retired after a 46-year business career with Lanier Business Products which became Lanier Worldwide, Inc. He started as a customer service representative and finished the course as Chairman/CEO. At the time of his retirement, Wes was inducted into the Horatio Alger Distinguished Americans. In the same time period, his alma mater, Southern Polytechnic State University recognized Wes with an honorary doctorate. He enjoys a continuing touch with the business world through having served as a Board member of Ann Taylor for ten years, and presently serves on the Board of Piedmont Office Real Estate Trust, and is Chairman of the Southern Polytechnic State University Foundation. Wes enjoys mentoring young business men and is a quarterly guest speaker for MBA students of GA State University.

The wife was mean. I'm not sure what the hell she was supposed to teach the people at EXCEL but her message was she was super rich and couldn't bear being around us regular folks who didn't have the manners she was used to. She would go eat meals at various tables and spend the entire meal going around the table tearing the girls/women to shreds over every single thing. People were left sobbing when the meal was done. She is probably one of the cruelest people I've ever met. 

[send*the*ferrets]

I always assumed it was a Dave Ramsey type program that told the Duggars to get out of debt. Of course he also speaks strongly about saving for college and jobs. 

[marmalade]

Dr. Wheat (the  "pill caused the miscarriage" doctor) was also a Gothardite. Don't forget, he also wrote the sex manual that JB gave to Josh on his wedding day. 

I think Wheat got the ball rolling, and the Sammon seminars sealed the deal; they were already somewhat in a Gothard frame of mind when JB jumped on the Sammons train. 

[nssherlock]

On 4/3/2017 at 4:07 PM, Palimpsest said:

Didn't we just go through this with another poster on another thread?

You really are a jerk -- I do mean jerk.   Downvote all you like, it is meaningless, like your nasty "opinion".

[zee_four]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:19 AM, Carm_88 said:

I vaguely remember the 96 Olympics in Atlanta, I do remember Donovan Bailey winning the gold meal in the 100m. I was obsessed with speed skating after the 98 Olympics in Nagano, Catriona Le May Doan was my hero for so long. The Winter Olympics have always interested me more than the Summer ones but I did love Rio.  

I did my grade 5 report on women's ice hockey since '98 was the first year it was in the Olympics. I'm a Team Canada fan but I did meet and skate with the ladies from Team USA after they won the gold. There's an old picture my mom took I saw not too long ago.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

41 minutes ago, nssherlock said:

You really are a jerk -- I do mean jerk. 

Are you talking with the mirror? @Palimpsest opinion is politely expressed and well thought, yours not.

[Coconut Flan]

46 minutes ago, nssherlock said:

You really are a jerk -- I do mean jerk.   Downvote all you like, it is meaningless, like your nasty "opinion".

[laPapessaGiovanna]

On 3/4/2017 at 9:49 PM, nssherlock said:

Anybody with an ounce of real intelligence wants to vomit when reading Gothard's pseudo science and general crap. 

It seems to happen to people reading your posts too.

[DaisyD]

53 minutes ago, nssherlock said:

You really are a jerk -- I do mean jerk.   Downvote all you like, it is meaningless, like your nasty "opinion".

 

 

 

Instead of making a meaningful counter argument, you resort to name calling. This only proves that you have no rebuttal. It also proves that you, in fact, are the jerk in this situation. Your attitude is shitty, and shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the things we discuss on this forum (and the nature of people in general). You are either a troll, or incredibly both naive and prejudiced. At any rate, you have shown your ass, may I suggest covering it or moving to a nudist colony?

 

[bal maiden]

12 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

@bal maiden, that is interesting.  How successful have the evangelical groups been at converting the Amish?  Do they focus on youth during Rumspringa and try to lure them away?

I don't know, I would think it would be a fairly hard road trying to convert enclosed Anabaptists.

Sorry to post and run last night. I will have a look later today once done toddler wrangling to see what I can find for you - it's not my exact area so don't have sources at my fingertips, I just know I came across some articles and a few book chapters on this in passing. 

[formergothardite]

I remember there being a really weird obsession with Amish people even in the SBC I went to. Church groups took trips to fawn over Amish people, but then mourn because they are going to hell. Then there were all those Amish turn Christian romance books women were really into. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

54 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I remember there being a really weird obsession with Amish people even in the SBC I went to. Church groups took trips to fawn over Amish people, but then mourn because they are going to hell. Then there were all those Amish turn Christian romance books women were really into. 

The Amish romances are still very much a thing. Like most romances, they're largely being read on e-readers now. Someone told me recently that the nickname for them in the publishing industry is "bonnet rippers" (from "bodice rippers" for historical romances). 

[Palimpsest]

17 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

 Someone told me recently that the nickname for them in the publishing industry is "bonnet rippers" (from "bodice rippers" for historical romances). 

That made me laugh!  I haven't read any romances but I like some of the Pennsylvania Dutch cozy mysteries by Tamar Myers.  Magdalena Yoder, the main protagonist, is Mennonite but there are a lot of Amish characters in the books.

@bal maiden, thanks.  If you get a chance I'll be very grateful.  It just sounds so weird that Evangelicals would be keen on converting the Amish.  Why on earth wouldn't they see them as Christian - my mind boggles.  Of course, targeting non-violent sects is much safer than trying to convert the general population to their particular flavor of religion.

 

[formergothardite]

38 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The Amish romances are still very much a thing.

Wow! That trend is still going on?! Beverly Lewis made a fortune with her Christian Amish romance books. I read one back in the late 90's and it just wasn't my thing. I think she was the one who really started the whole Amish romance trend. 

I can't remember why Amish weren't considered Christian, but it was probably a lot like why Catholics aren't considered Christian. 

[VelociRapture]

9 hours ago, nssherlock said:

You really are a jerk -- I do mean jerk.   Downvote all you like, it is meaningless, like your nasty "opinion".

 

 

 

Well aren't you just a fucking ray of sunshine. 

 

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

Dr. Wheat (the  "pill caused the miscarriage" doctor) was also a Gothardite. Don't forget, he also wrote the sex manual that JB gave to Josh on his wedding day. 

I think Wheat got the ball rolling, and the Sammon seminars sealed the deal; they were already somewhat in a Gothard frame of mind when JB jumped on the Sammons train. 

Assholes like this shouldn't be allowed to practice medicine. I know it was close to thirty years ago, but still. What sort of Doctor - let alone decent human being - tells a grieving couple that a miscarriage is their fault? And then proceeds to possibly help drag said couple into a cult?

Michelle and JimBob have a lot of crap to answer for, but this is one instance I genuinely feel for them. 

[DaisyD]

It figures the Dr. was a Gothardite. The very first special I saw with them, they mentioned the miscarriage and what the Dr. had said. That was when I knew what had happened to them. Losing a child can have devastating repercussions on people. It's amazing how out of control it has gotten, and really sad that it has had such far reaching effects down the line. How different would it be if they'd had a different doctor, or gotten some real grief counselling when it happened? 

[Angelic83]

I know from reading here and that the duggars started this leaving the children up to god thing after the miscarriage. Now reading that their believes came from a doctor that told them that I feel even more for all the duggar children

[OldFadedStar]

Just saying..

 

I think it's a skill that nssherlock has only 14 posts but 185 down votes. 

[nausicaa]

18 minutes ago, OldFadedStar said:

Just saying..

 

I think it's a skill that nssherlock has only 14 posts but 185 down votes. 

Seriously, I'm kind of impressed. That's a 13:1 negative return. 

[bal maiden]

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

That made me laugh!  I haven't read any romances but I like some of the Pennsylvania Dutch cozy mysteries by Tamar Myers.  Magdalena Yoder, the main protagonist, is Mennonite but there are a lot of Amish characters in the books.

@bal maiden, thanks.  If you get a chance I'll be very grateful.  It just sounds so weird that Evangelicals would be keen on converting the Amish.  Why on earth wouldn't they see them as Christian - my mind boggles.  Of course, targeting non-violent sects is much safer than trying to convert the general population to their particular flavor of religion.

 

I imagine it's the same kind of thing as targeting Catholics. Anabaptists don't really do the personal relationship with Jesus/salvation through faith alone thing that evangelicals and pentecostals find so important. It's a different kind of fundamentalism. And yeah, you're probably right that they're a non threatening prey. Plus, with those who have political motives, I suspect you want your fellow conservative types to be willing to engage in politics rather than live apart from it - I sincerely doubt all the motives are theological! 

[singsingsing]

I think the Amish already vote, though. I know I read articles last year about how the Amish were all voting for Trump.

[bal maiden]

6 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I think the Amish already vote, though. I know I read articles last year about how the Amish were all voting for Trump.

Quick google suggest you are right in that those who did vote in the last election voted for Trump. The turnout as a % of all Amish isn't massive though; they don't typically vote, the best stats I can find are on the BBC which suggests that the previous highest Amish turnout was 13% of them voting in GW Bush's second election. 

[bal maiden]

http://www.mapministry.org/articles/2012/09/17/how-many-amish-people-are-born-again-20-50-100 

This seems to suggest that yes, evangelicals don't see Amish as the Right Kind Of Christian. Sigh. I look forward to the Dillard's upcoming missioncation to Ohio.... 

 

@Palimpsest I'm being a bit useless finding the papers that talk about outreach to Amish and similar groups. Starting to wonder if I imagined them - although I'm pretty sure I didn't!! It's not helping that I'm away from academia at the moment so have no access to decent databases., and my books are all packed away at the moment (my main reading material at the moment is The Very Hungry Caterpillar ). However that MAP ministry group I linked to above is an interesting place to start, although of course they're not giving numbers on their success rates and things, which I know is what you were asking. Sorry! 

 

 

**

 

Seems like there was a nice bit of fake news about Amish voting in the last election... http://www.snopes.com/amish-trump-presidential-victory/ 

I'm trying unsuccessfully to find some turnout data on whether Amish people actually voted in the last election. Certainly it does look like there was a concerted effort by the Trump camp to get their vote http://theconversation.com/will-the-amish-turn-out-for-trump-dont-bet-the-farm-63291 

[Palimpsest]

No worries, @bal maiden.  And thanks, that is a very good place to start.  

"In the light of the moon a little egg lay on a leaf ..."  

[sawasdee]

@nssherlock has been quiet for a day or so. Do we need to clean the carpet? Or should we wait and see? Don't want to have to do it twice.......

Troll or tone deaf. I vote for the first.