Dillards 28: A Walk Down Memory Lane

[VelociRapture]

48 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I'll give Jill credit for trying to learn while she was a SAHD within the limited opportunities she was given, but I think her half-assing of things now as a married woman is all on her. She could dedicate herself to Spanish lessons, take an intensive Berlitz course with some of the thousands that they've raised, or research more successful missionaries to come up with a plan on how best to work in El Salvador. 

But like most of the Duggars, she just comes off as entitled and lazy to me. I also think because of her childhood, she doesn't even know how much work really mastering something takes. I'm torn on Jill. She does seem to have the curiosity, but not really the commitment. If she were given the opportunity to attend real nursing or midwifery school, would she really stick with it when she realized how much work it was and how humbling the experience of being at the bottom of the class is?

Oh I agree. I'm torn about her for those reasons as well. 

I think if she had a proper education then she would have at least stood half-a chance in a rigorous educational program like nursing (not saying she would have excelled or even stuck with it - just that she'd stand a better chance of doing so.) Even the laziest person can develop a strong work ethic if they're interested enough in their field of study. 

With her education though? No. Absolutely not. I do believe she's done some stuff since having Israel - like whatever that Bible class was and her Midwife certification. Don't know how rigorous those would be and I would have loved to have seen her pursue something different, but it's something I guess.

(I'd say it'd be good for her to pursue Spanish more, but I wouldn't wish that on the people of Danger America.)

[Stormy]

I think "stunted" is a good way to describe Jill. She's fairly bright, but with no way to truly express or apply herself because of her upbringing. I think it's evident in her recent blog post, which I don't even think is that bad or indicative of how smart (or not) she is; the writing is okay, with no major grammatical or spelling errors, and gets her point across. What makes it terrible is that the writing is that there's no real style to the writing nor could it be considered "advanced" (making it a boring read), as well as that it's pretty obvious that Jill is trying to make their situation in SA look nicer than it is (like their "opportunity" for ministry to a tiny group of people when they really were just stood up by the guys that were supposed to speak, so they had to scramble). This isn't in any way excusing Jill from responsibility for her actions, but I don't think it's fair (or accurate) to consider her to have low intelligence.

If anything, her lack of full commitment to mastering something and occasional un-enthusiasm could very well be due to something bubbling beneath the surface. That's pure speculation, of course, but it goes back to everyone's gut feeling that not all's well with the Dillards at the moment. Something bad could be going on (or about to happen) that we don't know about, which is why Jill is coming off as lackadaisical. Hopefully that's not true, but still. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

26 minutes ago, Stormy said:

Snip

If anything, her lack of full commitment to mastering something and occasional un-enthusiasm could very well be due to something bubbling beneath the surface. That's pure speculation, of course, but it goes back to everyone's gut feeling that not all's well with the Dillards at the moment. Something bad could be going on (or about to happen) that we don't know about, which is why Jill is coming off as lackadaisical. Hopefully that's not true, but still. 

I think the biggest problem is Jill is disillusioned with life.  She's used to being the golden girl, until they went on this mission trip she'd never had negative attention before, now every move she makes she's criticized.  Add to that I'm guessing Derrick isn't what she'd dreamed of, he's not prince charming, and the dream she was sold, I'm guess she figured her life would be like her parents, what she doesn't realize is that MEchelle has had 30 years of faking it  to make her life appear happy.  she never realized how hard it was for Michelle to "keep sweet" all the time, I'm betting she never knew about the laundry room break down. or any other meltdowns Michelle had.  I also think she is spoiled and entitled add all that together and you have a big whiny adult acting like a tired 2 year old.  I think the biggest issue is Jill needs to grow up. 

[Alicja]

as someone who has combined-type ADHD, when I was a child my teachers would all thrust the "less than bright" "dumb"(during the routine psych testing my school did to determine an IEP, I was found to have an above average IQ of 136. IQ is really a horrible measure of intelligence anyways with many racial and socioeconomic disparities and in my normie opinion should only be used as a baseline diagnostic tool, but anywhomst)  "problem child" labels on me which greatly impacted my self-esteem. my home life didn't help either, where i was punished and berated for not understanding math concepts. both of these have really stunted my ability to do math because of the trauma surrounding the subject. 

It took me YEARS to gain any academic confidence whatsoever. It wasn't until I was put on Vyvanse and went to therapy that I began to realize that I was indeed a smart and capable person. I'm lucky that I had supportive and nurturing teachers that helped me come to this realization.

no doubt about it, Jill was forced to conform to an extreme, twisted version of femininity that discouraged and looked down upon women pursuing academic interests and critical, higher level thought. she was raised in a fundamentalist household where corporal punishment and forms of emotional and verbal abuse were used to maintain rigid conformity. that combined with a less than adequate homeschool education, it's really no surprise Jill isn't the best writer or the most eloquent. 

 

anyways idk why i even bothered writing this out but tl;dr trauma and learning disabilities can affect one's ability to communicate effectively. some of the rhetoric I'm seeing on Jill's intelligence is not only hurtful but is damaging to folks with mental illnesses. it's dehumanizing and flat out mean.

[feministxtian]

The kids may very well be bright...however due to their brainwashing and shitty education, none of them were given a chance to really shine. The girls were probably just educated enough to be a mom and wife (because that's all they're good for) and either overtly or subtly chided for having any interest in academics. The boys were also ill-educated because they all were/are expected to have some manual labor type job...no advanced education allowed there either. So, unless some of the kids are able to break free of the brainwashing, they'll all be stalled. 

[CorruptionInc.]

On 26/03/2017 at 7:02 AM, PennySycamore said:

Pinatas aren't absolutely unheard of in El Salvador and other Spanish=speaking countries*, but are most closely associated with Mexico and are most common there.    It's incredibly insulting of the Dullards to be teaching piñata making to the people of El Salvador.  Pinatas are not terribly El Salvadoran and, if they were, El Salvadorans would be able to teach these stupid folks a good bit about making them.   

*Of course, they're not exactly unheard of here in the US either:  Every time I see a piñata , I think of dear sweet lovebird, Gus.  He had a piñata hanging beside his cage which he tore to shreds.

So good to see the Dullards are out there doing such meaningful missionary work (!) 

[ViolaSebastian]

Next thing you know, they'll be offering tortilla making classes. 

[JillyO]

On 26.3.2017 at 11:38 AM, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

In the latest update, Jill talks about how the locals come and share their produce with them.  Are they taking food from really poor people?

 

As @Mela99 already said, it's probably a situation were it would be rude and alienating if they refused the offer. I work with refugees (mostly Syrians, but also some Iranians, Iraqis, Afghans, Somalians and Eritreans thrown into the mix) and they constantly bring us candy, fruit, or sometimes even buy us coffee at the cafeteria. They have also invited us to celebrations where they bring insane amounts of delicious home-cooked food. They would be horribly offended if we refused their offers. So we gracefully accept, and of course we always share with everyone and we do bring stuff for them too.

That said, the way Jill wrote about getting produce from the locals was really weird. Like "yay, they're giving us free stuff." She just has no understanding of how the things she says and writes come across.

[Shadoewolf]

I don't think people are intentionally being mean to Jill. I think its the fact that when the Dullards portray themselves as better and Godlier than everyone else, when their job is in the public eye and supposedly trying reach and teach people, and when they beg for others to pay for their missioncation,  then they should be able to write a blog better than a 5th grader. Or Derick needs to write them, or have JB hire a ghostwriter.

In order to sell, people have to be able to understand what you're saying and it has to reach them somehow. Jill's blog..doesn't.

[singsingsing]

30 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

I don't think people are intentionally being mean to Jill. I think its the fact that when the Dullards portray themselves as better and Godlier than everyone else, when their job is in the public eye and supposedly trying reach and teach people, and when they beg for others to pay for their missioncation,  then they should be able to write a blog better than a 5th grader.

But see, that's the thing - she does write better than a 5th grader, and the criticism is so exaggerated that it comes across as an excuse to piss on her just because she's Jill. There's so much to criticize her for, do we really have to stoop to suggesting she has a cognitive disorder or wildly exaggerating her deficits? She's not a great writer. She's in great company, because most people aren't and they manage to do just fine. I think her writing skills (or lack thereof) should be the least of her worries.

[Carm_88]

I haven't read much of what Jill has written but it seems dreadfully dull. My thoughts were maybe that she hated to write it. Jill doesn't seem happy to me right now. So I'm not shocked that she's coming off as boring, she doesn't want to be there. I feel as though she has nothing good to say. She wants to be home. 

[Bethella]

On 3/25/2017 at 10:59 PM, Greendoor said:

Not being snarky, just asking.  Are we sure Jill passed the test?  Does she actually have accreditation?

 

For what it's worth, yes Jill passed the NARM certification- she posted a picture of the certificate that was legible. In some places that's enough but not in Arkansas. She did not complete her apprenticeship in Arkansas or pass the state certification test.

[Shadoewolf]

I'm not suggesting Jill has a cognitive defecit. I know people who do and they're nothing like her. At the same time, Jill can't write the way she does and expect people to donate $24K for her to live on $6k a month.  Sell the brand.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

21 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Next thing you know, they'll be offering tortilla making classes. 

The HR manager (she IS HR there are 12 people in the office total & another 100 who work as janitors off site) in my office is going to teach me how to make tortillas, she's from southern Mexico and  I can't wait, her tortillas are AMAZING! 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 minute ago, Shadoewolf said:

I'm not suggesting Jill has a cognitive defecit. I know people who do and they're nothing like her. At the same time, Jill can't write the way she does and expect people to donate $24K for her to live on $6k a month.  Sell the brand.

She needs to take some of that money and hire someone to pen her thoughts. IT is obviously not her forte. Hell for $50 an update, $25 if it's a short one, I'll do it.  i'm very loquacious, and know LOTS of word, I have ALL the words, just like her dear leader. My grammar is shit, but she won't notice. 

[onekidanddone]

22 hours ago, Alicja said:

as someone who has combined-type ADHD, when I was a child my teachers would all thrust the "less than bright" "dumb"(during the routine psych testing my school did to determine an IEP, I was found to have an above average IQ of 136. IQ is really a horrible measure of intelligence anyways with many racial and socioeconomic disparities and in my normie opinion should only be used as a baseline diagnostic tool, but anywhomst)  "problem child" labels on me which greatly impacted my self-esteem. my home life didn't help either, where i was punished and berated for not understanding math concepts. both of these have really stunted my ability to do math because of the trauma surrounding the subject. 

It took me YEARS to gain any academic confidence whatsoever. It wasn't until I was put on Vyvanse and went to therapy that I began to realize that I was indeed a smart and capable person. I'm lucky that I had supportive and nurturing teachers that helped me come to this realization.

no doubt about it, Jill was forced to conform to an extreme, twisted version of femininity that discouraged and looked down upon women pursuing academic interests and critical, higher level thought. she was raised in a fundamentalist household where corporal punishment and forms of emotional and verbal abuse were used to maintain rigid conformity. that combined with a less than adequate homeschool education, it's really no surprise Jill isn't the best writer or the most eloquent. 

 

anyways idk why i even bothered writing this out but tl;dr trauma and learning disabilities can affect one's ability to communicate effectively. some of the rhetoric I'm seeing on Jill's intelligence is not only hurtful but is damaging to folks with mental illnesses. it's dehumanizing and flat out mean.

I can't speak to Jill level of intelligence. But she will never know her potential because she was so sheltered and her education was so shabby she never got the chance to thrive and grow. 

ETA:  I went years with mis-diagnosed learning disabilites and ADD.  Even after testing I received really poor support. I can empathize and relate.  I and I really am sorry you had to go through that hell.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

15 minutes ago, Bethella said:

For what it's worth, yes Jill passed the NARM certification- she posted a picture of the certificate that was legible. In some places that's enough but not in Arkansas. She did not complete her apprenticeship in Arkansas or pass the state certification test.

Wait, so that Certificate and all the "Congrats" on being a midwife was pure shit? She can't "practice" in AR? AR is a pretty ruby red state, and has few regulations. If she can't practice there where can she? OK, MO? She's close enough to both but only in the sense of VERY small towns. 

Also a while back i was google mapping (I was board sorry) where they live, they aren't far from Fayetteville or Springdale, Fayetteville is one of Arkansas's bigest cities, why did Anna & Josh drive 2 hours to a Midwife? when they were 40 minutes from a major (AR) city? Yes this is a random thought. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Wait, so that Certificate and all the "Congrats" on being a midwife was pure shit? She can't "practice" in AR? AR is a pretty ruby red state, and has few regulations. If she can't practice there where can she? OK, MO? She's close enough to both but only in the sense of VERY small towns. 

Also a while back i was google mapping (I was board sorry) where they live, they aren't far from Fayetteville or Springdale, Fayetteville is one of Arkansas's bigest cities, why did Anna & Josh drive 2 hours to a Midwife? when they were 40 minutes from a major (AR) city? Yes this is a random thought. 

The midwife was an hour away. But they actually lived IN Fayetteville at the time, in the house where Jessa and Ben live now.

[Georgiana]

On 3/24/2017 at 4:14 PM, nssherlock said:

Ah - Georgiana ---- has it dawned on you that Jill is just dumb as a stump and couldn't apply herself to anything more than her hairdo -- and she's not very good at that either.

A sadder waste of life does not exist, she goes through her sad existence frightened by everything new, does absolutely nothing for anyone besides quote the usual b.s. she learned from her mother.   She's a burden to everyone and every situation - and she has not a clue as to why she's always scared, puzzled, or upset.

 

No, it has not.  Because I do not believe that.  In fact, I believe the Duggar kids have been SO failed by their parents, we will never be able to tell what is due to lacking intellect and what is due to lacking instruction in childhood.

All the stuff you list are things Jill should have LEARNED as a child.  She should have been exposed to these sort of situations and had her parents HELP her work through them to learn how to handle them.  None of us are born knowing how to do everything perfectly.  We learn how to handle and manage things.  We grow, and we get better as we get more experience.

Jill never got a chance to grow.  She never got a chance to learn.  She's acting like a child because, well, that's where her parents kept her.  She needs someone to step in and give her guidance now, helping her to become an adult, but sadly, she doesn't have someone in her life willing to take on that burden.  

Jill is not a failure.  Jill has BEEN FAILED by others.  There's an important distinction there.  

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, Bethella said:

For what it's worth, yes Jill passed the NARM certification- she posted a picture of the certificate that was legible. In some places that's enough but not in Arkansas. She did not complete her apprenticeship in Arkansas or pass the state certification test.

FWIW, a poster on another site took the NARM exam online. She didn't study, finished the test in 30 minutes, and had a near-perfect score. So, that test really doesn't appear to measure much. And you're right, Jill is not listed as a CPM on the state's certification website. Granted, they haven't updated it since October, but I think that's because there have been no changes. The apprentice page was updated last week. You can find them by clicking the hotlinks on this page. 

http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

I've conducted legal reviews before where I've had to make more corrections to grammatical errors and awkward syntax than to legally questionable terms (in an agreement.) Even very educated people can be terrible writers, and I've recieved emails from UC Berkeley graduates that make less sense than Jill's blog post, so I'm cutting her some slack there.

[melon]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:23 AM, Flossie said:

Jill probably just carries large.  I did, and had people nervous that I was going to pop at any moment when I was barely seven months along.  I went to the hospital to visit a friend who'd just given birth and the second I stepped foot on the maternity ward nurses were charging at me asking if I was in labor and who my doctor was.  It was another few weeks before I went back to have my own 8lb 5oz baby, and by then I was overdue.

A few months earlier another friend of mine was full term and in labor when she went to the hospital and stood around in the lobby waiting for her mother to join her.  She was only ushered upstairs when the check-in lady noticed her grimacing and clutching her stomach.  Then my friend was practically thrown in a wheelchair and taken upstairs because the woman at check-in assumed that someone carrying so small must surely be in premature labor.  The maternity nurses got a kick out of that because my friend had been there the day before in false labor.  My friend was the same height as I was, but while I was charitably considered big-boned, she was called small-boned.  Her baby was just under seven pounds.

But nothing tops this other woman I knew.  For a brief time we were roommates until she got married.  I knew she was pregnant and was due any day.  When I ran into her at the store she was wearing sweat pants and had only a small bulge, so I assumed she'd had the baby already.  Imagine my shock when she said she was still pregnant, and already a few days overdue!  It was another shock to hear that she had her baby just a day or two after that, and that kid was a ten pounder!  I don't know how she fit such a large baby into her average sized frame when she had such a tiny baby bump.

I carried large and my babies were big.The smallest,my oldest was 8lbs 15 0z,my middle son was 9lbs 73/4oz,and the youngest was 10lb 4 oz,and I never made my due date.I told a friend that Mr.Melon was a 10lb baby and I was 8lb 3/4oz but was two weeks early..she said Melon.you are doomed...lol.

I used to take my boys to Mom-Tot swimming classes.The instructor said I looked like I was about to deliver...I was 6 months along.Then my MIL agreed!She said ,Well,you do look like that,when you get to around 7 months.

Then,I went to the hospital to pre-register,I had put it off,I was 8 months ago.Someone comes with a wheelchair.The receptionist says Well we will be seeing you soon.I said I have another month to go.

[Bethella]

50 minutes ago, marmalade said:

FWIW, a poster on another site took the NARM exam online. She didn't study, finished the test in 30 minutes, and had a near-perfect score. So, that test really doesn't appear to measure much. And you're right, Jill is not listed as a CPM on the state's certification website. Granted, they haven't updated it since October, but I think that's because there have been no changes. The apprentice page was updated last week. You can find them by clicking the hotlinks on this page. 

http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Pages/LayMidwifery.aspx

I didn't know that about the NARM exam. Jill and Jana disappeared from the Arkansas Apprentice Midwife list right after Venessa's malpractice/legal stuff.

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Wait, so that Certificate and all the "Congrats" on being a midwife was pure shit? She can't "practice" in AR? AR is a pretty ruby red state, and has few regulations. If she can't practice there where can she? OK, MO? She's close enough to both but only in the sense of VERY small towns. 

I believe she could legally practice in Oklahoma, Missouri or Kansas, I'm sure there are other states where she could practice but I'm only checking the nearest states. She could probably go back to Arkansas and redo the apprenticeship but I have no idea if the stuff she did previously would still count.

[patsymae]

On March 25, 2017 at 3:35 PM, socalrules said:

The link is on page 8 of this thread. 

I don't understand making a piñata as a skill that their class needs to learn. Will this get them a job in a piñata factory? Do they make them and then sell on the street? What about the painting? I am sure it's painting a picture not a house. Wouldn't teaching them carpentry, sewing or cooking be a better skill? It doesn't seem that they are teaching anything to help those in the community become self-sufficient. 

Why assume these people are not self/sufficient or that they can't cook or build houses?

[Shadoewolf]

Jill's parents may have failed her, but so have the parents of millions of other kids. They become adults and learn to function, or seek help in doing so. I don't feel sympathetic to Jill or Anna, as they are adults with choices. I know the fear of the unknown can be insane and overwhelming, I've lived it. But I also got the right help and learned to grow and think for myself. JB&M are only part of the problem.