MS GOP have gone off the deep end.

[Mama Mia]

OT - Cannelle - would you mind sharing what health problems you are still having after the hyperemisis ? My daughter had severe hyperemisis with her 1st pregnancy and has had bad health ever since - she also had complications at delivery and recovery, so I am trying to sort out what might be related. If you don't want to say, no problem.

[Witsec1]

The bald eagle thing had nothing to do with women and everything to do with embryos. The analogy had to do with the question are EMBRYOS human, not women. It had nothing to do with women at all. The abortion issue, as a whole, has a GREAT DEAL to do with women. However, the analogy did not. The analogy WAS NOT meant to deal with the abortion issue as a whole.

And the fact that you think whether or not a zygote becomes a human has nothing to do with women's personal agency is the entire problem with your argument. Women have always had the capacity to choose whether or not a zygote becomes a human life, and they always will, no matter how hard you criminalize abortion, suicide attempts, or questionable miscarriages. Unless you want to turn the entire world into a prison camp where all women are monitored 24/7, every part of us belongs to us.

[Braggnation]

Computer went screwy, on my phone until fixed. To hard to type.

Im not down with the hostility/name calling, however I get it , especially when you are as passionate about something. Like I said I was pro choice. I don't think I could ever go back but a couple of the posters did made me think..............I wish this wasn't such a hostile forum. I would like to ask a couple of questions without ridicule. I know, I know, if you can't take the shark...............snark.

[formergothardite]

Braggnation,can you answer if you think that women who had abortions should be in jail for murder? What about the men/family member/friends who knew what she was going to do and assited her in getting to the abortion clinic? Should they also get jail time for assisting in a murder?

And like I said before I find it refreshing that you just came out and said you though women should die instead of aborting. It usually takes pages of pro-life people dancing around the question to get an answer. I don't agree with you, but at least you are up front about what you believe and don't try and hind it like most of the pro-life people who come here.

[slickcat79]

Computer went screwy, on my phone until fixed. To hard to type.

Im not down with the hostility/name calling, however I get it , especially when you are as passionate about something. Like I said I was pro choice. I don't think I could ever go back but a couple of the posters did made me think..............I wish this wasn't such a hostile forum. I would like to ask a couple of questions without ridicule. I know, I know, if you can't take the shark...............snark.

Feel free to ask them. I can't speak for anyone else, so I couldn't promise how the reaction will be, but you may get answers that you find useful. Certainly no one here would see a problem with you being pro-life for yourself, on a personal level. There are several steps, though, between knowing that you would never personally have an abortion and wanting it to be illegal for everyone.

[Boltingmadonna]

slickcat79 said:

Certainly no one here would see a problem with you being pro-life for yourself, on a personal level. There are several steps, though, between knowing that you would never personally have an abortion and wanting it to be illegal for everyone.

This. I'm not hostile to you personally, Braggnation. What gets me riled up is that I don't think you've thought through the implications of your position for other people, when you start trying to make your beliefs into law. I'm happy to answer questions you may have, though I can't answer for the rest of us. As it has often been pointed out, we're not a hivemind. If you find it hard to stand up to hostility here, imagine how it feels to be pro-choice and deal with being called a slut and told you're a baby-killer and are going to Hell. At least you haven't experienced that.

[Cannelle]

OT - Cannelle - would you mind sharing what health problems you are still having after the hyperemisis ? My daughter had severe hyperemisis with her 1st pregnancy and has had bad health ever since - she also had complications at delivery and recovery, so I am trying to sort out what might be related. If you don't want to say, no problem.

First off, it screwed my teeth. BIG TIME. I used to have great teeth. Only one cavity my entire life, no other problems. HA! After the baby, I had to have all my molars drilled and filled, I've had three root canals, I actually lost a tooth (it turned brown, then cracked, and I had to get the whole thing yanked. Never a good thing when your oral surgeon looks at the x-ray, then looks in your mouth, gasps, and says, "WOW. That's not what I was expecting to see!"), two of my front teeth are chipped...I've had probably over $10K in dental work since then, and thanks to all that, I've developed a severe dental phobia. I have panic attacks and I cry even when going in for a cleaning. My teeth are also pretty discolored from the constant vomiting, and that's hugely embarrassing to me. I don't even like to smile anymore because they look so awful. :(

I also have degenerative disc disease and some problems with the bones and joints in my pelvis that they think might be related to my difficult pregnancy and the stress it caused on my body (I really need a full MRI to figure out exactly what's going on, but my doctor doesn't seem to want to do that, and I'm considering switching doctors, because I'm tired of waiting until I can't walk, getting another round of steroids, feeling better, feeling worse, can't walk, getting another round of steroids, lather, rinse, repeat). I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease when I was 23- 18 months after my son was born, which is pretty young for that. It's incredibly painful, and like I said, some days I can barely walk. I've been on steroids three times since July, I have a standing prescription for Celebrex, I take Flexeril sometimes because of the constant muscle spasms, I get nerve pain all the way into my feet...Given that osteoporosis runs in my sides of my family (and that I couldn't drink milk for about five months of my pregnancy, because I made the huge mistake of trying to drink it once early on, and it came up SOLID, and that was the end of that, I couldn't drink it anymore), I can only imagine what my bone scan might say. I'm 31 years old.

My body was perfectly fine before I had him. I had some issues with acid reflux, but that was the worst problem I've ever had. Now I consider it a good day if I can get up off the couch without crying, or drive ten minutes to school without breaking into a sweat because I hurt so much.

I'm sorry to hear your daughter is suffering. I was lucky enough that labor and delivery were pretty easy for me and I had no complications from that (I did, however, have a problem with recurring mastitis afterwards, which made me- you guessed it- vomit! Like I hadn't had enough already, lol). I envy the women who float through pregnancy with no more than a little queasiness and some heartburn, because I'm sure not one of them. :(

[keeperrox]

Computer went screwy, on my phone until fixed. To hard to type.

Im not down with the hostility/name calling, however I get it , especially when you are as passionate about something. Like I said I was pro choice. I don't think I could ever go back but a couple of the posters did made me think..............I wish this wasn't such a hostile forum. I would like to ask a couple of questions without ridicule. I know, I know, if you can't take the shark...............snark.

Go ahead and ask your questions, but you'd be rude to not answer our's in return. Here's mine in case you forgot:

So then you're totally fine with someone having an abortion that they pay for out of their own pocket?

[Witsec7]

The reality is Bragnation, the Hyde amendment removed federal funding from abortion.

Braggnation wrote:

but i don't want to financially support something i don't believe in. Just as you wouldn't want to support a pro-life movement. its the same thing. I get were everyone is coming from. i do. I was on the other side of the fence years ago. Abortion is where I flipped.

[InkyGirl]

Pregnancy is no walk in the park. I had constant heartburn from the week before I found out I was pregnant until just a couple weeks ago and I'm only at 14 weeks. Nausea, food aversions, and a freaky sense of smell that makes walking in my kitchen unbearable. (I can't find where the smell is coming from!!) My immune system is gone, I think at this point if I see someone sneeze I get sick. And my pregnancy has been pretty easy comparatively. There are very few who have easy symptom free pregnancies. It's not for everyone.

I understand being against abortions. I was for a very long time, and I still feel uneasy about it. However, I have come to realize the implications of banning them altogether - it's a very slippery slop and wouldn't actually stop them from happening. It would just make them more dangerous. If you don't like abortion be an advocate for better sex education and more readily available contraceptives. And be understanding that there are many medical reasons to terminate a pregnancy. It took a long time and a lot of education (a lot from all here) for me to realize it IS NOt a black and white issue. There are many grey areas.

[AmyP]

AmyP said:

Really? Don't you believe that life begins at conception? So you wouldn't try to stop me from using any form of birth control even if fundies claim it might hypothetically under some circumstances cause a fertilized egg not to implant? I want a straight answer, please. Do you accept that hormonal birth control and IUDs are legitimate and should be available to anyone who wants them? Because otherwise you're just lying when you say that. You support and vote for men who will deny me birth control, so you're not innocent in this anyway, unless you plan to vote against Republican senators, congresspeople and governors.

Have you never spent much time around women who have been pregnant? Sprocket's story is not a rare exception. My daughter had early labor twice and had to be put on bed rest and dosed with a rather scary cocktail of medications designed to hurry up fetal growth and stop her labor. And then with the second one, they changed their minds and decided the baby had to be delivered right away, so they gave her drugs to speed up the labor they'd been trying to stop. My niece has a circulatory condition that could kill her and the fetus with blood clots. She had to be monitored and given injections through her entire pregnancy. You think that didn't take a toll? Is that what you call "marching right along?" Even an uneventful pregnancy doesn't just "march along." It takes active input from the mother's body all the way. You evidently didn't even bother to read or consider my post--just repeated your unsupported assertions. There isn't enough facepalm in the world for this kind of willful ignorance.

I personally use birth control, so why would I deny you yours?

[formergothardite]

Amy are you only pro-life for yourself, meaning that you are pro-choice, or are you pro-life in that abortion should not be legal?

[Guest Anonymous]

BECAUSE I value life, I want as few abortions to happen as possible. That means that I believe in easily available birth control, sex education at a young age, good prenatal care and help for the single mother or poor families.

I don't mind my tax dollars being spent for these things.

Although I don't think I could have ever had an abortion (hysterectomy 10 yrs ago, so not an issue now). I completely agree with the above statements. I see AL headed in the same direction as MS. Hell, I see a lot of states headed in that direction.

[Boltingmadonna]

AmyP said:

I personally use birth control, so why would I deny you yours?

Well now, that's an interesting question, isn't it? It could be because you use NFP and think other forms of BC are immoral. You answered my question with a question, rather than what I requested: a straight answer. Do you accept hormonal birth control and IUDs as moral options that should be available to anyone who wants them?

I notice there are some other direct questions you're not answering, either.

[formergothardite]

Why do most pro-lifers avoid giving straight answers?

[AmyP]

Amy are you only pro-life for yourself, meaning that you are pro-choice, or are you pro-life in that abortion should not be legal?

I'm trying to think of a way to answer this directly. There are alot of things that are legal that I think are wrong. Just because something is legal, does not mean it is always the right thing to do. I do not believe that the judicial system, or lawmakers, should force the country into laws that do not represent the will of the people. I do not think that making abortion illegal represents the will of the people.

I also don't think that the government should force a woman in a life threatening situation to die in order to carry her child. No government should have that kind of authority, in my opinion. I know rape victims who have carried babies and given them up for adoption, and I might think it is the right thing to do, but I do not think the government should force them to do so.

Do you see where I am going with this? I would love for people to just stop having abortions, but that is not going to happen. I am mostly neutral on the issue politically. I do not pick my candidate of choice based on this issue.

Because I feel so strongly about abortion, I am a huge proponent of birth control. Lots and lots of birth control for anyone who needs it. And I don't care if the government pays for it.

[formergothardite]

So you are not pro-life you are pro-choice? Correct?

[AmyP]

AmyP said:

Well now, that's an interesting question, isn't it? It could be because you use NFP and think other forms of BC are immoral. You answered my question with a question, rather than what I requested: a straight answer. Do you accept hormonal birth control and IUDs as moral options that should be available to anyone who wants them?

I notice there are some other direct questions you're not answering, either.

I answer the questions that I feel like answering. I used the pill until I discovered that it was giving me a dry skin condition and a rash on my face. While I was in my child bearing years we used condoms. Now that ship has sailed and hubby and I have opted for a permanent solution. No more little AmyP offspring will be coming along.

[AmyP]

So you are not pro-life you are pro-choice? Correct?

If I were pro-choice I would never support a pro-life candidate, and I have supported pro-life candidates based on other issues. I have also supported candidates who are not pro-life. It is more that I tolerate choice, not that I would advocate for it.

[formergothardite]

Are you pro-life because you feel like a fetus is a baby and if so do you think women who have abortions are murdering a baby and if abortion was illegal should they be treated as murderers?

[AmyP]

Are you pro-life because you feel like a fetus is a baby and if so do you think women who have abortions are murdering a baby and if abortion was illegal should they be treated as murderers?

I am pro-life because the fetus will become an individual. I think eliminating a developing person is the same as killing a person. No, I don't think it is a "baby", I think it is a fetus who will develop into a baby and then ulitimately an individual.

I am not answering your question about penalties because I do not know. I have never really thought about it and I don't feel like throwing some half baked answer out there and have to spend the next hour backtracking and taking it back.

[formergothardite]

But you wouldn't vote for abortion to be illegal, correct?

[AmyP]

But you wouldn't vote for abortion to be illegal, correct?

You mean in a direct vote? Like all the citizens of my state are getting together to actually vote on the issue, rather than candidates who may or may not support the issue? I don't know- I might have to abstain. Seriously, I am so divided on the issue I don't know how I would vote when it comes right down to it.

[Witsec7]

You mean in a direct vote? Like all the citizens of my state are getting together to actually vote on the issue, rather than candidates who may or may not support the issue? I don't know- I might have to abstain. Seriously, I am so divided on the issue I don't know how I would vote when it comes right down to it.

Abortion is a platform issue for both major parties here in the US. How do your feelings about abortion come into play when you are voting in a presidential election?

[Boltingmadonna]

Okay, thanks for answering my question, AmyP. I think things are so polarized right now that if you don't vote pro-choice, you are effectively voting to end reproductive freedom for women. That is your decision, of course, but I think you need to be realistic about the results of your decision. As you say, you don't have to worry about it. I don't either, as it would take a miracle to get me pregnant at this point. But I have daughters and friends, and I care deeply about their health and well-being. I hope that you would too.