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MS GOP have gone off the deep end.


muffynbear

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Am I smoking crack? WTF do bald eagles have with abortion or eggs or babies or fetal growth or what? Are we playing the "we protect bald eagles but we let women kill teh babeez, Oh Noes!!!!111!!!!" game? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all....

Is my life worth less than the bald eagle/human egg baby?

I'm guessing this is the newest argument for the RTL folks. Amy has danced around it, claiming it was meant to be sea turtles :roll:

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I'm guessing this is the newest argument for the RTL folks. Amy has danced around it, claiming it was meant to be sea turtles :roll:

I didn't dance around anything- i said I had read something similar, but I have not read one about bald eagles. It does not surprise me that you have read one about bald eagles because it is an obvious example.

I was simply making the point that bald eagle eggs, although they are not yet living bald eagles, are regarded as essentailly the same as living bald eagles. I think that was pretty clear.

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I didn't dance around anything- i said I had read something similar, but I have not read one about bald eagles. It does not surprise me that you have read one about bald eagles because it is an obvious example.

I was simply making the point that bald eagle eggs, although they are not yet living bald eagles, are regarded as essentailly the same as living bald eagles. I think that was pretty clear.

Again, WTF do bald eagle eggs have to do with abortion rights? You know, nevermind. Obviously, you're using some endangered/protected species stuff to further an anti-choice agenda. Let's move on.

Why don't you answer my question: Is my life worth less than the fetus/baby? What would you advise me to do if I were pregnant?

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Again, WTF do bald eagle eggs have to do with abortion rights? You know, nevermind. Obviously, you're using some endangered/protected species stuff to further an anti-choice agenda. Let's move on.

Why don't you answer my question: Is my life worth less than the fetus/baby? What would you advise me to do if I were pregnant?

I never made a single argument in this thread about abortion rights, one way or the other. My illustration was intended to address the question of whether or not we consider the fetus human life, not whether or not we have the right to eliminate it. My position on the legal issue is somewhat murky, becuase I am nominally pro-life, but I lean in a slightly libertarian direction, and am therefore uncomfortable with making a medical procedure illegal.

I am actually still thinking about your question. Obviously, the common sense answer that I think we could both agree on is that you should use the strongest form of birth control that you can tolerate. In the event that you became pregnant, I would consider that a medically necessary abortion.

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I never made a single argument in this thread about abortion rights, one way or the other. My illustration was intended to address the question of whether or not we consider the fetus human life, not whether or not we have the right to eliminate it.

Okay. Nevermind. I will never understand what you were trying to say, what position you were trying to take or what your point was. Perhaps someone smarter than me can make sense of how bald eagles/sea turtles and how we treat them have bearing on whether a fetus, a zygote, etc. is a human being. I'm too dense to get it.

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I'm going to interject a bit of science into this thread. A fertilized bird or turtle ova is just that. A uterus is not needed for either of these eggs to proceed through its life cycle. A fertilized human ova can exist outside the human body in a tissue culture medium for a fixed period of time, and then it needs a human uterus to ensure its future growth. This is such a shitty analogy only the effing RTL crowd would think it had legs. But science, especially reproductive science isn't the forte of some.

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but i don't want to financially support something i don't believe in. Just as you wouldn't want to support a pro-life movement. its the same thing. I get were everyone is coming from. i do. I was on the other side of the fence years ago. Abortion is where I flipped.

I don't believe in the ridiculous amount of money politicians make, but I still support them with my tax dollars. It's not a game of pick and choose.

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You don't get to make the eagle's choice for them by destroying their eggs, just like how you don't get to make a women's choice for her by denying or forcing her to have an abortion.

Got it? It's not up to you, it's up to them.

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Here's another analogy: I'm a vegetarian. What if I and my vegetarian friends (and fellow travellers) get together and manage to put pressure on lawmakers to ban people from eating meat and utilising meat by products because I think it's morally wrong to kill animals, especially baby ones like lambs and veal calves? Why should my moral stance be the template for what people are allowed to eat or use or wear? Why should I be allowed to dictate to other people who have a different viewpoint to my own?

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So, the people who think abortion is equal to murder. Should I be in jail for murder because I had an abortion? And is it time for Treemom to bring out her abortion story?

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Here's another analogy: I'm a vegetarian. What if I and my vegetarian friends (and fellow travellers) get together and manage to put pressure on lawmakers to ban people from eating meat and utilising meat by products because I think it's morally wrong to kill animals, especially baby ones like lambs and veal calves? Why should my moral stance be the template for what people are allowed to eat or use or wear? Why should I be allowed to dictate to other people who have a different viewpoint to my own?

And while we're at it, all of the religions who don't think people should eat pork can legislate that from now on we can't have bacon with our pancakes.

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So, the people who think abortion is equal to murder. Should I be in jail for murder because I had an abortion? And is it time for Treemom to bring out her abortion story?

Looks like I'm in good company. They can cuff me now.

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Looks like I'm in good company. They can cuff me now.

Well, since they are "pro-life" hopefully they won't kill us and we can live out our days in jail.

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I'm going to interject a bit of science into this thread. A fertilized bird or turtle ova is just that. A uterus is not needed for either of these eggs to proceed through its life cycle. A fertilized human ova can exist outside the human body in a tissue culture medium for a fixed period of time, and then it needs a human uterus to ensure its future growth. This is such a shitty analogy only the effing RTL crowd would think it had legs. But science, especially reproductive science isn't the forte of some.

what does the presence or absence of a uterus have to do with whether or not we consider developing life to be essentially the same as what it will ultimately develop into if left undisturbed.

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If it is a life equal to a born human, should I be in jail for murder?

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what does the presence or absence of a uterus have to do with whether or not we consider developing life to be essentially the same as what it will ultimately develop into if left undisturbed.

Jesus Christ, lady. If you can't understand that a sea turtle dropping some eggs in the sand, covering them up, and then going on her merry way into the ocean never to be seen by her offspring is different than carrying a fetus to term... well then you're either beyond help or you're being grossly obtuse.

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what does the presence or absence of a uterus have to do with whether or not we consider developing life to be essentially the same as what it will ultimately develop into if left undisturbed.

Ok put on your critical thinking cap Amy. Ya ready for the answer?

You stole an analogy which is not appropriate to the discussion. A woman has an uterus, that's why we're having this discussion, ketchup.

BTW let us know if we're going to jail for having abortions ok? I'll need to get someone to come over to feed the cat while I'm gone.

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Murdering a baby probably will get me life in jail. Will my husband also be going since he knew what I was going to do and encouraged it? What about all the relatives who knew beforehand, should they get jail time? Dude are my kids going to end up in foster care?

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Ok put on your critical thinking cap Amy. Ya ready for the answer?

You stole an analogy which is not appropriate to the discussion. A woman has an uterus, that's why we're having this discussion, ketchup.

BTW let us know if we're going to jail for having abortions ok? I'll need to get someone to come over to feed the cat while I'm gone.

that does not answer my question at all.

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Murdering a baby probably will get me life in jail. Will my husband also be going since he knew what I was going to do and encouraged it? What about all the relatives who knew beforehand, should they get jail time? Dude are my kids going to end up in foster care?

Actually I'm looking forward to some free medical care, I'll get the cataract done, some dental work, perhaps I can even get them to spring for the heart valve job. Will we get notice? I'd like to transfer the money to the DDs act.

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You don't get to make the eagle's choice for them by destroying their eggs, just like how you don't get to make a women's choice for her by denying or forcing her to have an abortion.

Got it? It's not up to you, it's up to them.

:text-yeahthat:

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Jesus Christ, lady. If you can't understand that a sea turtle dropping some eggs in the sand, covering them up, and then going on her merry way into the ocean never to be seen by her offspring is different than carrying a fetus to term... well then you're either beyond help or you're being grossly obtuse.

nope, not obtuse- just asking a very specific question that has nothing to do with the uterus, or the sand, or the eagles nest for that matter. The question has only to do with what we consider developing life to be. The question I initially worked from had more to do with how we define human life, and nothing to do with the mother at all. There are legitimate questions that have to do with the mother, her right to carry or not, etc., but my analogy had nothing to do with those questions.

I gave my opinion on those questions a while back, and it had nothing to do with eagles. I said that I was nominally pro-life, but I was uncomfortable with making a medical procedure against the law.

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Why are you semi-pro-life?

ETA: If you view a fetus as a life, why not treat it as one?

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Ok put on your critical thinking cap Amy. Ya ready for the answer?

You stole an analogy which is not appropriate to the discussion. A woman has an uterus, that's why we're having this discussion, ketchup.

BTW let us know if we're going to jail for having abortions ok? I'll need to get someone to come over to feed the cat while I'm gone.

Bless your heart, you didn't grok any of it because you forgot your thinkin' hat amy. :lol:

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nope, not obtuse- just asking a very specific question that has nothing to do with the uterus, or the sand, or the eagles nest for that matter. The question has only to do with what we consider developing life to be. The question I initially worked from had more to do with how we define human life, and nothing to do with the mother at all. There are legitimate questions that have to do with the mother, her right to carry or not, etc., but my analogy had nothing to do with those questions.

I gave my opinion on those questions a while back, and it had nothing to do with eagles. I said that I was nominally pro-life, but I was uncomfortable with making a medical procedure against the law.

If you believe that no one should decide for another what medical procedure they may have, i.e. abortion should be legal, what does it matter when human life begins? If you want to believe it begins when the sperm meets the egg, go ahead. I can believe it begins once the viable being leaves the uterus. It doesn't really matter. If you're pro-choice, which, by the way, is what you are if you believe abortion should be legal, what's your point here?

I've watched and participated in a few of these abortion debates and no one cares when anyone feels life begins. We, as a society, do not agree on that. What some of us here at FJ agree on is that what you do with your womb is your business. It's between you and your doctor. Which is what you said you agree with.

So I'll ask it differently: what's your goal in this conversation?

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