People is reporting that Michelle Duggar miscarried MERGED

[browncoatslytherin]

Some people think health care workers or locals might have tipped off the media- not saying it isn't possible....

if that were to happen, whoever leaked the information would be terminated immediately, as that violates the hippa laws. so, doctors/nurses/doctor's staff leaking information is rare because most of them are smart enough to know that if they talk, they get the axe.

[browncoatslytherin]

You're right, some women who miscarry don't grieve, I had a friend who lost six pregnancies before she conceived her daughter and wasn't particularly upset by any of it, but for those of us who DO grieve, there isn't a whole lot of social support out there.

first of all, i'm so sorry for your loss. i know how you feel, as i have also lost a child.

second of all, there's actually a lot more support out there than you know. there are tons of grief support groups out there, special grief counselors, and literally tons of forums on the internet that are specifically for miscarriages. i'm not saying this to you specifically, just in general, but i think some women who miscarry that think there isn't that much support out there don't really go looking for it much. and some women handle it better alone, but for those that don't, just do a google search and there are tons of sites that will pop up.

[Rowan]

I am no expert but if I understand the progesterone shots right, this has nothing to do with Michelle's case, where she did not "miscarry" i.e. preterm labor, but the foetus just died.

Yeah, as someone else said the progesterone shots only are needed until a point earlier in the pregnancy than where she was.

I wonder if it was a placental thing - she's had numerous C-sections with Josie's being unusual and traumatic. So the scar tissue on her worn out uterus must be overwhelming. If the placenta can't attach in a location able to support a fetus beyond a certain size.......this happens.

Stop, Michelle and JB, just stop!

[tkr322]

yeah IMO it's different than fertility treatments. Plus miscarriages happen like 20-30% of each pregnancy, so even with the medication she needs for the embryo to stay in the uterus she's still susceptible to miscarriages (DNA problems, etc).

I am no expert but if I understand the progesterone shots right, this has nothing to do with Michelle's case, where she did not "miscarry" i.e. preterm labor, but the foetus just died.

Low progesterone would not have caused Michelle's miscarriage. That is usually associated with really early losses or bleeding/spotting. It sounds like from the article she had no clue that she had miscarried until they pulled up the ultrasound and saw no heartbeat. My guess is that the baby had some genetic issue or some abnormality like a cystic hygroma.

I guess it could have been some health related condition with her, too. I have thrombophilia issues and have to take blood thinner injections everyday with my pregnancy. This was only discovered after multiple miscarriages. I'm going to guess she doesn't have that though as she's had 19 kids easily prior to this. She is like, what? 45? There are a lot of issues associated with advanced maternal age.

[tkr322]

Yeah, as someone else said the progesterone shots only are needed until a point earlier in the pregnancy than where she was.

I wonder if it was a placental thing - she's had numerous C-sections with Josie's being unusual and traumatic. So the scar tissue on her worn out uterus must be overwhelming. If the placenta can't attach in a location able to support a fetus beyond a certain size.......this happens.

Stop, Michelle and JB, just stop!

They aren't injections but are supplements. The same pill can be taken orally or vaginally. They gave me crazy side effects when I took them orally. I couldn't even stand up from the dizziness and nausea and definitely couldn't drive a car or anything. Not that it matters but just wanted to set the records straight :).

[Rowan]

They aren't injections but are supplements. The same pill can be taken orally or vaginally. They gave me crazy side effects when I took them orally. I couldn't even stand up from the dizziness and nausea and definitely couldn't drive a car or anything. Not that it matters but just wanted to set the records straight :).

Good to know - I was thinking of the Progesterone in Oil shots I know a lot of people going through IVF are subjected to.

http://pcos.about.com/od/medication1/f/ ... iltips.htm

[2 Animal Crackers]

My first reaction was sadness... and then relief.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I wonder if TLC will take this as a 'sign' and quietly discontinue the show. How great would that be?

[Burris]

That's a hard thing. I feel bad for them.

I disagree with many of the other posters here who say this is a 'sign to stop,' however: Miscarriage is actually quite common, and it doesn't matter if a woman is on her first pregnancy or her 20th - it can happen to anyone, for any reason or for no discernable reason at all.

(This was also how I felt about Josie's disabilities. I don't understand why *that* should be seen as a reason to stop having children. No - I think having 19 fucking kids is a reason to stop in itself. Disability amd miscarriage have nothing at all to do with it.)

[alba]

My first reaction was sadness... and then relief.

Mine was the other way around. First relief that the 19 living children still have a mother, then sadness because a miscarriage, especially later in the pregnancy, is always distressing and not something I'd wish on anyone.

[Witsec4]

I have 2 questions:

1. If it's in the 2nd trimester and the woman has to deliver it like she would a live baby, is the baby then considered a fetus or an infant?

2. For the people who brought home their stillborn children and kept them for several days, what about decomp and smell? The child is dead, so wouldn't the natural process of decomp have started? I doubt nature takes a step back and puts itself on hold for a grieving family. And where do they put the baby? Do they hold it while they sleep, even though it's no longer alive? I can't imagine taking it home for an extended grief session only to have to return it to the hospital. Or did they take it to a mortuary. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I'm really curious how these families (just that one family?) deal with the details that one doesn't usually think about until you're faced with having to deal with the situation.

I have two friends who have lost babies comparatively late. One was at 16 weeks and the other was at 23-24. I think policies probably vary between hospitals and states. We all live in MD, but the babies in question were born in DE (15 minutes away from where we live, but that's where the "good" hospital is.)

My friend with the 16 weeker had a D & E, and I don't think they ever did anything with the remains. They had four other kids at home, the oldest being 8. They did have a memorial Mass, but no funeral.

My other friend had to deliver the baby after they found out he had died. Since he was on the cusp of viability, they were given a death certificate, and they named him and held him for a little while. They had him cremated, and they keep his ashes in their room. They had his name put on a bronze leaf, to be hung on a Tree of Life at the hospital, along with the names of other children who had died there. Their other child was about 1 and a half at the time, and they didn't involve her at all.

[haveapicniclife]

I have two friends who have lost babies comparatively late. One was at 16 weeks and the other was at 23-24. I think policies probably vary between hospitals and states. We all live in MD, but the babies in question were born in DE (15 minutes away from where we live, but that's where the "good" hospital is.)

My friend with the 16 weeker had a D & E, and I don't think they ever did anything with the remains. They had four other kids at home, the oldest being 8. They did have a memorial Mass, but no funeral.

My other friend had to deliver the baby after they found out he had died. Since he was on the cusp of viability, they were given a death certificate, and they named him and held him for a little while. They had him cremated, and they keep his ashes in their room. They had his name put on a bronze leaf, to be hung on a Tree of Life at the hospital, along with the names of other children who had died there. Their other child was about 1 and a half at the time, and they didn't involve her at all.

Everything you said, and wanted to add-- I think it depends on the age of viability for your particular state. Some states say 23 weeks, some 24, and so on, and I think that's where the death certificate comes in. Typically though, I think any baby in the 19+ week development range is treated as a baby by the compassionate nursing staff (and depending on what the mother wants). I have definitely seen pictures of a tiny, wrapped up 19 week baby that didn't make it. I've seen quite a few moms with the hospital birth certificate and tiny footprints. Or a little lock of hair that a nurse snipped for them. Usually they do whatever they can to help the grieving mother, to acknowledge the baby was real and that the mothers grief and loss is real and acceptable.

As for Michelle, I'd be surprised if they were allowed to bury on their own property. Again, depends on their state and local laws. Particularly since they couldn't exactly do it quietly, with no one noticing. They'll have to do things the right way.

[theologygeek]

Mine was the other way around. First relief that the 19 living children still have a mother, then sadness because a miscarriage, especially later in the pregnancy, is always distressing and not something I'd wish on anyone.

I thought this pregnancy would kill her. She doesn't seem healthy enough to keep doing this.

[ukjingernut]

I'm just so, so sorry. Regardless of it being the 20th, and regardless of whether he/she/it is a person or a collection of cells... I'm sorry. I hope they do make an episode out of the funeral to show what the Gothard lifestyle is doing to families. But I also hope the family are given some privacy and support.

[FJismyheadship]

My stepmom miscarried. At the time, I didn't understand why we were having a funeral. NOW I understand it was for my dad, my stepmom, and the grandparents to grieve. Me? I wasn't sad at all. I mean, yeah I was sad my stepmom lost the baby... but I didn't know the child, so I didn't grieve for him. Does that make me heartless? I told my aunt that day "I'm not sad at all" and she said "Everyone grieves in their own way." I didn't dare tell her I wasn't grieving... not sure what would have happened then lol. My baby brother, who is super sensitive didn't cry and wasn't sad either. My other brother did cry.

I told my mother about this later, and she told me it was perfectly okay for me to not grieve. My dad and stepmom were sad, and this was their way of getting through it. She explained that they "knew" the child, and expected the child... and now that he was not going to be in the world, it was sad.

My stepmoms mom had a picture of the dead baby on a shelf in her house for a while. it was already blue and purple when it was taken. I was a bit creeped out by it, and told my dad. He made her take it down. He understood her having the picture... but putting it up where everyone could see it was a bit weird.

[Visionoyahweh]

As for Michelle, I'd be surprised if they were allowed to bury on their own property. Again, depends on their state and local laws. Particularly since they couldn't exactly do it quietly, with no one noticing. They'll have to do things the right way.

JB will call in every sleazy favor it takes to get the county to tallow the tiniest graveyard in the compound.

Or, the could just break the law and do it. Who's going to stop them? I wouldn't.

[Daenerys]

JB will call in every sleazy favor it takes to get the county to tallow the tiniest graveyard in the compound.

Or, the could just break the law and do it. Who's going to stop them? I wouldn't.

There may be further regulations as they live near a garbage dump. Massively increases the risk of animals trying to dig up the grave, which would be horrifying.

[fundifugee]

Not everybody grieves. Some folks just feel it's a natural part of the way things go (which it is, 20-25% of pregnancies miscarry). Others feel relief. There is no wrong way to handle it, I think.

[fundifugee]

Yup. She defended it as "God made the progesterone and it sustains life so it's all good." Okay, she didn't say it was all good, but that's what she implied. I wouldn't be surprised if there were progesterone shots in Mullet's future. Kelly didn't start getting hers until she had a miscarriage at about the same time in her pregnancy that Michelle did. Of course, she was a couple years younger then and has since had another miscarriage, Judson, another miscarriage, and the current pregnancy. So it looks like that even with progesterone (how soon does that start anyway?) that miscarriages can still happen, since we know she's had interventions since that big miscarriage.

Good, then, that is settled. Now they can take a progesterone pill a day, or a depot progesterone injection every 3 months, and they won't get pregnant. All-natural god-given contraception.

Or they could take an even easier combination of god's own creation, estrogen, with the progesterone, in a pill or a patch or a vaginal ring, and also avoid further pregnancy that way. Praise god.

[fundyfunland]

CNN just reported that Michelle Duggar miscarried her 20th. I hate to say this, but I'm super glad for all involved....mostly the older J'slaves.

[Kitty]

Jesus Christ. 5th time someone has posted this without noticing there's a sticky.

[fundyfunland]

Oops sorry... I didn't notice that there'd been a separate announcement section on this topic already, as it wasn't in the usual snark topic. Feel free to delete or merge this, mods. Thanks

[Terrie]

The Duggars treat their existing kids as a bragging point, rather than individuals. I might feel sympathetic to JB and Michelle if I thought that this pregnancy had been in any way about the baby, instead of being all about them. As it is, miscarriage or baby, they get the attention they want, so what difference does it make?

[lilwriter85]

I wonder if TLC will take this as a 'sign' and quietly discontinue the show. How great would that be?

I think that is a possibility. TLC has known for awhile that the ratings have gone down, I believe ratings for the show before the announcement of Michelle's pregnancy was 1 to 1.5 million. Those ratings aren't horrible for a cable show, but they aren't great either. Before the annoucement of Micelle's pregnancy, TLC was starting to clean house a bit and getting rid of the older shows. They got rid of LPBW in 2010 and they canned Kate Plus 8 over the summer. There have been people predicting that 19 Kids and Counting was chopping block. My theory is that TLC was likely going to do one more season and then when Michelle's pregnancy was announced they probably decided to give the Duggars at least 2 seasons to show the pregnancy and birth. Now that Michelle has miscarried, I think TLC might end the show. Some of the Duggars' fans really don't care for the family anymore and dislike of the Duggars has grown quite a bit due to their involvement in CollegePlus! and other organizations.

[debrand]

Jesus Christ. 5th time someone has posted this without noticing there's a sticky.

I tend to ignore the stickies because I assume that I've read them before. Most people look at the lower portion of the forum for the threads because it is titled topics. The poor mods are going to be busy for a few days. LOL I have to give the mods credit, they are very quick about merging each new thread.