Dillards 94: After Counting the Cost

[HereticHick]

15 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Jill’s book won 5th Place in the Goodreads contests.

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-memoir-autobiography-books-2023

And Jinger in 17th place

[AprilQuilt]

59 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Jill’s book won 5th Place in the Goodreads contests.

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-memoir-autobiography-books-2023

this is really impressive given who she is behind. The top 3 are Britney, Prince Harry, and Elliot Page. Those are some huge names/memoirs so to be anywhere close to them in terms of readers' votes means Counting the Cost has caught a lot of attention. I'm pleased for Jill.

I hope she earns out her advance and has a nice little paycheck coming in from this for years to come.

[Inky]

I just went onto my local library site to download a book, and lo and behold, Counting the Cost was available! So I guess I'll be reading that next. I feel like I've already read it from the snippets I've read in FJ, but I'm sure there's lots I haven't read yet.

[Cam]

21 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

this is really impressive given who she is behind. The top 3 are Britney, Prince Harry, and Elliot Page. Those are some huge names/memoirs so to be anywhere close to them in terms of readers' votes means Counting the Cost has caught a lot of attention. I'm pleased for Jill.

 

Have to agree. A few thoughts: I’ve never been that interested in Britney but she has a massive fan base. Out of the top 8 books in this Goodreads best memoirs of 2023, I’ve read 7 and Britney’s is the one I haven’t read. Is it really that well written? I will have to find out for myself; I just placed a hold on it at the library. 

My favorite in this list is You Could Make This Place Beautiful. I expected nothing and towards the end of the book I was brought to tears. I am not a crier. I experienced something profound in Maggie Smith’s writing style and how she wove the telling of her story. Btw, this is not the British actress Maggie Smith but an American author.

I liked Jill’s book and Pamela Anderson’s, and tho I like Harry I found his book to be tedious.I didn’t care for the one by Elliot Page or Paris. Beth Moore’s was meh. She skirted around too many topics. I admire total honesty, like “I’m Glad My Mom Died” by Jeannette McCurdy (last year’s winner in Goodreads best memoirs). 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Cam

[Margarita]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Have to agree. A few thoughts: I’ve never been that interested in Britney but she has a massive fan base. Out of the top 8 books in this Goodreads best memoirs of 2023, I’ve read 7 and Britney’s is the one I haven’t read. Is it really that well written? I will have to find out for myself; I just placed a hold on it at the library. 

My favorite in this list is You Could Make This Place Beautiful. I expected nothing and towards the end of the book I was brought to tears. I am not a crier. I experienced something profound in Maggie Smith’s writing style and how she wove the telling of her story. Btw, this is not the British actress Maggie Smith but an American author.

I liked Jill’s book and Pamela Anderson’s, and tho I like Harry I found his book to be tedious.I didn’t care for the one by Elliot Page or Paris. Beth Moore’s was meh. She skirted around too many topics. I admire total honesty, like “I’m Glad My Mom Died” by Jeannette McCurdy (last year’s winner in Goodreads best memoirs). 

oh god, i LOVE Maggie Smith's work. haven't read her memoir yet but adore the poem it's titled after. the poem is Good Bones and i've copied it here for those interested:

Life is short, though I keep this from my children.
Life is short, and I’ve shortened mine
in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways,
a thousand deliciously ill-advised ways
I’ll keep from my children. The world is at least
fifty percent terrible, and that’s a conservative
estimate, though I keep this from my children.
For every bird there is a stone thrown at a bird.
For every loved child, a child broken, bagged,
sunk in a lake. Life is short and the world
is at least half terrible, and for every kind
stranger, there is one who would break you,
though I keep this from my children. I am trying
to sell them the world. Any decent realtor,
walking you through a real shithole, chirps on
about good bones: This place could be beautiful,
right? You could make this place beautiful.

 

 

[AverageGiraffe]

2 hours ago, Margarita said:

oh god, i LOVE Maggie Smith's work. haven't read her memoir yet but adore the poem it's titled after. the poem is Good Bones and i've copied it here for those interested:

Life is short, though I keep this from my children.
Life is short, and I’ve shortened mine
in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways,
a thousand deliciously ill-advised ways
I’ll keep from my children. The world is at least
fifty percent terrible, and that’s a conservative
estimate, though I keep this from my children.
For every bird there is a stone thrown at a bird.
For every loved child, a child broken, bagged,
sunk in a lake. Life is short and the world
is at least half terrible, and for every kind
stranger, there is one who would break you,
though I keep this from my children. I am trying
to sell them the world. Any decent realtor,
walking you through a real shithole, chirps on
about good bones: This place could be beautiful,
right? You could make this place beautiful.

 

 

That was so lovely. Thank you for bringing that into my life. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I hope Jill’s success shows younger Duggars there is a path outside of JB’s flavor of fundamentalism. 

[Cam]

20 hours ago, Margarita said:

oh god, i LOVE Maggie Smith's work. haven't read her memoir yet but adore the poem it's titled after. the poem is Good Bones and i've copied it here for those interested:

Life is short, though I keep this from my children.
Life is short, and I’ve shortened mine
in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways,
a thousand deliciously ill-advised ways
I’ll keep from my children. The world is at least
fifty percent terrible, and that’s a conservative
estimate, though I keep this from my children.
For every bird there is a stone thrown at a bird.
For every loved child, a child broken, bagged,
sunk in a lake. Life is short and the world
is at least half terrible, and for every kind
stranger, there is one who would break you,
though I keep this from my children. I am trying
to sell them the world. Any decent realtor,
walking you through a real shithole, chirps on
about good bones: This place could be beautiful,
right? You could make this place beautiful.

 

 

I have the poem pinned to my Facebook page and have read it many times. It touches something deep in my heart. I don’t care for poetry all that much; Maggie Smith’s gifted prose is quite the exception. 

[Inky]

I finished Jills book. I thought it was very good. Well written, easy to read. It really explains a lot of the back-story which people weren't privvy to at the time. One thing that kind of popped out at me was their lawsuit against those who released the information about the sexual abuse when she was young (by Josh), was dismissed because of Josh's CSAM charge/conviction. It really put the girls in a position where a jury was unlikely to sympathize with them, and they had a very low chance of winning. However the judge did state unequivocally that the law WAS broken when those records were released and published by In Touch. 

I felt like she was pretty honest about how Jim-Bob treated them when they wanted (quite rightly) to be paid and to gain access to the documents he tricked her into signing on her wedding day. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

This is what I wish YouTube family channels would understand. They are selling their children’s childhoods for money. They are selling the big moments and milestones for views and likes. How much is your baby’s birth worth to you? How much is your child’s first steps? Is it worth the thousands of dollars? Will it be worth it 20 years from now when your child won’t answer your calls and texts? 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is what I wish YouTube family channels would understand. They are selling their children’s childhoods for money. They are selling the big moments and milestones for views and likes. How much is your baby’s birth worth to you? How much is your child’s first steps? Is it worth the thousands of dollars? Will it be worth it 20 years from now when your child won’t answer your calls and texts? 

In essence, they have a bunch of kids and when they realize children cost money, they put the kids to work to support themselves. It is so exploitative. It is so gross. It is not Christlike at all. If the “man” is large and in charge, the “man” needs to get off his ass and support all those blessings he decided the family needed to have. If something happens to the “man” then the “woMAN” needs to step up to provide for the family.  Unless there are NO parents, the kids should not be working more than the parents to support the family, period!

How is selling your family’s private moments and anonymity away for easy money GODlike?

Please tell me!!!!

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

In essence, they have a bunch of kids and when they realize children cost money, they put the kids to work to support themselves. It is so exploitative. It is so gross. It is not Christlike at all. If the “man” is large and in charge, the “man” needs to get off his ass and support all those blessings he decided the family needed to have. If something happens to the “man” then the “woMAN” needs to step up to provide for the family.  Unless there are NO parents, the kids should not be working more than the parents to support the family, period!

How is selling your family’s private moments and anonymity away for easy money GODlike?

Please tell me!!!!

Even before social media, fundies were forcing their children to work 40+ hours a week. Even before the tv show, the Duggar kids were working. The 4 oldest girls were putting in way more than 40 hours a week taking care of siblings, cleaning, cooking, and helping with schoolwork. The oldest boys were helping JB with rental properties and the giant house they were building. Very few quiverful families can function without great amounts of child labor. Lawson was giving his parents grocery money with his earnings from mowing lawns and landscaping. At the beginning of the 1900s, people were appalled that so many children were working in factories and mines. Yet over 100 years later, here we are again. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Very few quiverful families can function without great amounts of child labor. 

Exactly. The show exploited the Duggar children in other ways, but they were working way harder than they should have been long before the cameras started rolling. 

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, viii said:

Exactly. The show exploited the Duggar children in other ways, but they were working way harder than they should have been long before the cameras started rolling. 

And it seems like JB has had a rather sketchy, sustained work history. Yes, the first 4 years (before the birth of the predator), JB and M both worked hard. And in that time we are lead to believe that they started a business, bought business equipment and a home. Where the seed money came from has never been addressed. I am thinking a 19 and 17 YO did not come into their marriage swimming in self made assets. We know somehow, some way the Duggars amassed a great deal of real estate and land and started several businesses. Let’s not forget this was all while they added child after child, did not increase their education or skill levels and without any apparent outside the home jobs. I scratch my head trying to figure at the economic plausibility of this story. We do know that JB did secure a spot in AR state government for a short time ( and reportedly rarely showed up for work). IIRC, IBLP discourages couples from working outside the home. Well, if mommy and daddy don’t routinely have jobs, and additional children come year after year, and in the absence of trust funds or criminal means, how are these families supposed to survive? I need to see a chart; a step by step chart. Because if JB’s approach was 100% legitimate, he should be writing books and giving  lucrative seminars (LEAVING GOD OUT OF THE CONTENT)in how to become wealthy without holding a consistent job and raising 1.5 dozen kids (+1-2) all while seemingly have the education level and curiosity of a gnat.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

 At the beginning of the 1900s, people were appalled that so many children were working in factories and mines. Yet over 100 years later, here we are again. 

Sadly, some sections of society never fully left the child labor mindset.

 

11 hours ago, viii said:

Exactly. The show exploited the Duggar children in other ways, but they were working way harder than they should have been long before the cameras started rolling. 

From Day 1 those older girls looked exhausted.

 

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

And it seems like JB has had a rather sketchy, sustained work history. Yes, the first 4 years (before the birth of the predator), JB and M both worked hard. And in that time we are lead to believe that they started a business, bought business equipment and a home. Where the seed money came from has never been addressed. I am thinking a 19 and 17 YO did not come into their marriage swimming in self made assets. We know somehow, some way the Duggars amassed a great deal of real estate and land and started several businesses. Let’s not forget this was all while they added child after child, did not increase their education or skill levels and without any apparent outside the home jobs. I scratch my head trying to figure at the economic plausibility of this story. We do know that JB did secure a spot in AR state government for a short time ( and reportedly rarely showed up for work). IIRC, IBLP discourages couples from working outside the home. Well, if mommy and daddy don’t routinely have jobs, and additional children come year after year, and in the absence of trust funds or criminal means, how are these families supposed to survive? I need to see a chart; a step by step chart. Because if JB’s approach was 100% legitimate, he should be writing books and giving  lucrative seminars (LEAVING GOD OUT OF THE CONTENT)in how to become wealthy without holding a consistent job and raising 1.5 dozen kids (+1-2) all while seemingly have the education level and curiosity of a gnat.

There has to be something illegal, like tax cheating happening.

[GreenBeans]

On 12/14/2023 at 7:11 AM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Sadly, some sections of society never fully left the child labor mindset.

It’s not just a fundie thing, though. So many YouTubers / influencers exploit their children’s lives for fame and money. Every birthday party filmed on instagram, every #ad or toy unboxing video, it’s all exploitation. And it’s completely unregulated. Those children do not need to be paid, there is no limit on maximum working hours, they have to perform for the camera, no matter the daytime, sick or healthy. And that’s the same for all these influencers, the Duggar and Bates girls, all the big happy family/adoption YouTubers, and all the others without any Christian branding whatsoever.

[SassyPants]

5 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

It’s not just a fundie thing, though. So many YouTubers / influencers exploit their children’s lives for fame and money. Every birthday party filmed on instagram, every #ad or toy unboxing video, it’s all exploitation. And it’s completely unregulated. Those children do not need to be paid, there is no limit on maximum working hours, they have to perform for the camera, no matter the daytime, sick or healthy. And that’s the same for all these influencers, the Duggar and Bates girls, all the big happy family/adoption YouTubers, and all the others without any Christian branding whatsoever.

Exactly. And in recent times I have seen a few influencers take their kids out of school (claiming to homeschool), and those children are now included in the daily SM posts and product shilling schemes. These kids need protections in place (time, education, health and monetary). And it’s always the people with more than a couple of kids. If you, the adults,  can’t afford to support your family, stop adding to it. It should be illegal to force children to support a family when the parents are perfectly able bodied and continue to add to the family size.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Exactly. And in recent times I have seen a few influencers take their kids out of school (claiming to homeschool), and those children are now included in the daily SM posts and product shilling schemes. These kids need protections in place (time, education, health and monetary). And it’s always the people with more than a couple of kids. If you, the adults,  can’t afford to support your family, stop adding to it. It should be illegal to force children to support a family when the parents are perfectly able bodied and continue to add to the family size.

Yep. It’s definitely starting to be a trend for mommy influencers to take their kids out of school and “homeschool” so they have more hours in the day to film their kids. It’s so fucked. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yep. It’s definitely starting to be a trend for mommy influencers to take their kids out of school and “homeschool” so they have more hours in the day to film their kids. It’s so fucked. 

This is one of the reasons I think homeschooling needs to be monitored.
 

Some parents homeschool because they want to give their kids the best education possible or live a unique lifestyle while still ensuring their kids have a quality education. A childhood friend of mine was home schooled because she was a child violin prodigy who toured in Europe as a child and recorded CDs; her mother was a teacher and made sure she was adequately challenged academically. Someone like this, who didn’t abuse her child, made sure she was receiving a good education, allowed her child to pursue a passion- I have no problem with them homeschooling. 
 

Some parents homeschool as a way of abusing, controlling, and disempowering their children. These are the ones who need to be monitored and ultimately, stopped. How different would the lives of the Duggars or Turpin children be if their parents had been monitored? 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Kiki03910]

People in this country pay a whole lot of lip service to protecting and nurturing children but it's abject bullshit. Where's the health insurance, universal school breakfast and lunch, maternity and paternity leave, right to education, even the right to not be hit? Just for starters. A nation of fucking hypocrites

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

People in this country pay a whole lot of lip service to protecting and nurturing children but it's abject bullshit. Where's the health insurance, universal school breakfast and lunch, maternity and paternity leave, right to education, even the right to not be hit? Just for starters. A nation of fucking hypocrites

This is another reason I hate the “pro life” moniker that the GOP likes to wear. NO, pro life means protecting all life equally. It means supporting policies that help people thrive: well funded education, healthy food choices, affordable healthcare, company provided parental leave, clean air and water etc..The party of “NO and bootstraps” supports none of these life affirming entities. NONE. 

Children have no power or money and do not vote.

Forced birth without providing life supporting policies after birth is just about controlling women.

[Kiki03910]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

This is another reason I hate the “pro life” moniker that the GOP likes to wear. NO, pro life means protecting all life equally. It means supporting policies that help people thrive: well funded education, healthy food choices, affordable healthcare, company provided parental leave, clean air and water etc..The party of “NO and bootstraps” supports none of these life affirming entities. NONE. 

Children have no power or money and do not vote.

Forced birth without providing life supporting policies after birth is just about controlling women.

THIS. Absolutely all of this. I can almost see the hatred and fear of women rolling off them in endless, noxious waves.

[Maggie Mae]

17 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Some parents homeschool because they want to give their kids the best education possible or live a unique lifestyle while still ensuring their kids have a quality education

It needs to be regulated, even when it's being done when the school closes, or because the child is a chess prodigy and will miss a semester to travel. We also need to decide as a society what circumstances are OK and what aren't. And I know for myself, a family doing van life and visiting the national parks for a year while homeschooling seems fine to me,  but others will disagree. I don't think "being a professional actor at 6" is a reason to homeschool, especially as the child is earning money. The production company should have to accommodate school by only filming on days off or rewriting scripts and timelines to avoid the use of children actors. But people will disagree with that. Especially the lobbiests in Hollywood. And most of society (and the supreme court, citing Wisconsin v Yoder) will be fine with wealthy children of business owners being homeschooled as "they won't create a burden on society" in the future as they will be taught business. 

At the very minimum I'd like to see competency testing, and in-erson or zoom checks with a mandated reporter on a regular basis. 

[Coconut Flan]

The thing with the child actors is that it isn't what we usually see as homeschooling. The production is required to provde a certified teacher on set and allow a certain number of hours for education.   

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

The thing with the child actors is that it isn't what we usually see as homeschooling. The production is required to provde a certified teacher on set and allow a certain number of hours for education.   

Ehhh…it’s still not a great “school environment” on movie sets and honestly, probably more disruptive than actual homeschooling in a home. I’ve been on movie sets and witnessed the teachers trying to teach their little stars and it’s rough. The children are moved back and forth from their school area to the set whenever either 1) production is ready for them to shoot a scene or 2) they’ve been on set so long they need to take their mandated break and get their school hours in. It can be 4:00 in the afternoon and the teacher is still trying to cobble enough minutes together to get the required amount of hours in. And most of the kids love being on set and hate being sent back to the school room (they’re typically trailers). Yes, the teachers are certified and supposed to advocate for the child, but the child is usually much happier on set and annoyed to be doing schoolwork in their trailer while wanting to get back where the action is. No matter how great a teacher is, it’s hard to compete with the thrill of a movie set for an extroverted child and constantly be interrupted by the director’s request to bring the child back to set. So while laws are in place to make sure children in the entertainment business are protected, have an advocate, and are educated, it’s not really blazing trails in education and more just fulfilling the legal requirement so the child can get back to the real reason they’re there.