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Dillards 94: After Counting the Cost


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On 10/31/2023 at 8:23 PM, just_ordinary said:

I wouldn’t be too sure that Jill is „naturally intelligent“. As sad as it sounds- Jill started this relationship with the aim to be whatever Derick wants her to be. I don’t deny that things took a turn for the better, but I am not convinced that she isn’t still moulding herself after his liking. And I wouldn’t even bet she realises it, but rather believes that’s exactly what she wants herself. She seems happy, so I do hope that she feels comfortable to speak up and stands up for herself, as well as can pursue things she is interested in no matter what Derick thinks about that. It’s hard to tell and if the past has taught us anything- we shouldn’t rely too much about what was shown in the show. Jill might have been more open and curious but it could be just editing and her skripted persona. Just like Rebel Jinger, CinderJana, Tomboy Joy or BossBitch Jessa.

 

Some thoughts on this: 

1--She was raised in a cult to believe that her husband had the final word on everything and she had to be what he wanted her to be. Blaming her for beginning a marriage that way doesn't seem fair. 

2--There was one thing related in the book that makes me think that she's no longer basing all her decisions on what Derick wants/thinks: when she was considering wearing pants, she asked him. He told her to make her own decision. And then she did. This would indicate that controlling her every decision, her conscience, or her actions is not his agenda. 

3--Finding "normal" or making changes in any deconstruction is not an immediate event. It's all gradual and takes place over time. Plus the end of deconstruction is not always discarding faith. 

4--It is normal for married couples to share thoughts, ideas, and consider changes together. 

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On 10/31/2023 at 7:23 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Remember Jill learning Spanish? I’m not sure if she was the only kid learning the language or if she was the one who embraced it the most but she was actively seeking out knowledge in a way I didn’t see her siblings doing. 

And it's really sad, because that showed how severe her lack of basic education was. Like she just thought you could speak Spanish by substituting Spanish words for English words. No concept of how language actually works. I suspect the same thing happened when she tried to learn midwifery and just had no concept of simple scientific principles. 

-It is normal for married couples to share thoughts, ideas, and consider changes together. 

 

This. And I suspect Derrick, who I still think is a tool but also think he is a good husband, expected a partner and not, like Jeremy, just a compliant little girl he could dress up and introduce to "the classics" (i.e.. groom to admire him and his superior, worldly ways.) Cathy is also a tool, IMO, but she gave her sons the example of a strong woman who could take care of herself and her children

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11 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would bet good money that Jeremy was not a virgin when he got married. Imagine Jim Boob making him call and apologize for sex. Yeah right. Jeremy would never do that. 

I swore I read somewhere that Jeremy was not a virgin before marrying Jinger.  If I am wrong, someone please correct me.    

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19 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I swore I read somewhere that Jeremy was not a virgin before marrying Jinger.  If I am wrong, someone please correct me.    

What we know about Jeremy is that he had a partying phase. Meaning he got drunk and partied in his early 20s with friends all the time. I’m sorry but if you are in your early 20s, party all the time, are decent looking, and are really good at soccer, you are probably having at least some sex. Sorry but I would be completely shocked if he was a virgin when he married Jinger. 

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2 hours ago, patsymae said:

And it's really sad, because that showed how severe her lack of basic education was. Like she just thought you could speak Spanish by substituting Spanish words for English words. No concept of how language actually works.

Tbf that's probably also a "stupid americans" thing. Generally speaking I would describe the loudest demographics in the US as humiliatingly set on being monolingual. Because of that I'm guessing many people wouldn't actually understand it's not a literal word for word translation. 

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1 hour ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I swore I read somewhere that Jeremy was not a virgin before marrying Jinger.  If I am wrong, someone please correct me. 

The closest I've read was that someone came on FJ around the time they were married, IIRC, claiming to have known him in college and that he was not a virgin.  Offered proof - of their identity or the sexy times was not clear - and was run out of town for being gross.  So still seems speculation either way.

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22 hours ago, marmalade said:

They were recently on a podcast. Mostly the same stuff with one exception. 

Derick admitted to kissing girls before Jill. Apparently, Derick confessed to JB, who made Derick call the girls and apologize to them. I assume for sulllying their purity. 🙄

I guess Derick actually did this because he was still vulnerable and looked to JB as a father figure. I hate that JB took advantage of Derick like that. You know he didn't try that shit with Jeremy! 

Sometimes I get the feeling Jim Bob is basically an incel whose had a bunch of sex and kids. 
 

12 hours ago, Cam said:

Not sure how much Derick knew of Josh and the molestations before marrying Jill, but I wonder if JB tried to make Derick to believe he, too, was “impure” before marriage since he locked lips with females before Jill. It seems in JB’s mind Derick and Jill were both “tainted” so in the land of misfits they were a matching pair.

If Jim Bob is conflating someone who was abused by a pedophile with someone who engaged in consensual kissing he’s a major asshole. 

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I just realized that I don't remember my first kiss.  Pitiful because I dated less than 5 men.  Forgetfulness is one of the benefits of being 74.  If I don't rember it, it didn't happen.

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19 minutes ago, Queeen Victoria said:

I just realized that I don't remember my first kiss.  Pitiful because I dated less than 5 men.  Forgetfulness is one of the benefits of being 74.  If I don't rember it, it didn't happen.

When I was a kid, first kisses were a HUGE deal. Like beyond huge. But like so many things in our childhood, what was a huge life shattering big deal then, is nothing to us now. I honestly don’t give a shit about my first kiss now. 

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I remember my first kiss (because it was a Big Deal - because I was older than nearly everyone I knew when it happened - I was 17). But there are some in the middle there that are a bit of a dim memory. I spent a year in Ireland in college where we'd go dancing, make out with someone and then go our separate ways. LOVED that. Don't remember a lot of those - but... sure was fun. 

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3 hours ago, Queeen Victoria said:

I just realized that I don't remember my first kiss.  Pitiful because I dated less than 5 men.  Forgetfulness is one of the benefits of being 74.  If I don't remember it, it didn't happen.

I remember mine. It was hilariously bad. I wasn't his first kiss, so I really wonder if he's improved and remembers how bad it really was. He basically suction-cuped his face on mine and tried to lick my tonsils.  

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My first kiss was rather magical. 
 

I was going to tell you all, and then I thought, “Nope, that memory is mine, all mine, and nobody else.”

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Once, sitting around my in-laws dinner table, I made a joke about a neighbor because I knew she was my husband's first kiss.

And that, my friends, is how we discovered that she was also the first kiss for two of his brothers.

I laugh every time I think of it. Others in the family were not so amused. 

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My first kiss was very sweet. I got lucky in that respect.

My ex told me his first kiss was with his first girlfriend at summer camp. She said he smelled so he went to take a shower and by the time he was done she found someone else. 😁

 

Edited by Father Son Holy Goat
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Mine was a 6th grade truth or dare at a friend's house with like ten other kids there. One solid minute, in front of everyone. I remember liking another boy there more, but got the dare with a guy I didn't like as much. It was the year that Crazy For You by Madonna was #1 and I swear, that was like the soundtrack to my entire 12 year old existence. I was an angsty, early blooming, hot mess of boy-crazy drama. 🤣

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15 hours ago, Meggo said:

I remember my first kiss (because it was a Big Deal - because I was older than nearly everyone I knew when it happened - I was 17). But there are some in the middle there that are a bit of a dim memory. I spent a year in Ireland in college where we'd go dancing, make out with someone and then go our separate ways. LOVED that. Don't remember a lot of those - but... sure was fun. 

Don't worry, I was 21. It was with my girlfriend at the time, it was a long distance thing, she had come to visit me. Think that kiss lasted for an hour haha! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My first kiss was OK, but my last kiss was very disappointing. I'm still surprised how someone in his 50s can be such a bad kisser. Or if we were just different types of kissers. 

To connect that to fundies: imagine being stuck for life with someone you never kissed before the wedding and then realising you don't like the kisses. And not having learned how to talk about anything sexual. I don't know how they solve that problem and I feel sorry for anybody trapped in a situation like this. 

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On 12/2/2023 at 1:12 AM, flowergirl said:

imagine being stuck for life with someone you never kissed before the wedding and then realising you don't like the kisses. And not having learned how to talk about anything sexual. I don't know how they solve that problem and I feel sorry for anybody trapped in a situation like this. 

I wholeheartedly concur!

I don’t remember my first kiss but I do remember my first great kiss. I was in my late teens and in love. Oh my. A number of years later, Kevin Costner’s character in Bull Durham described that kind of kiss when he said, “I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.” Oh yeah. My relationship with Mr. Great Kisser did not last, and I wasted entirely too much time getting over him, tho eventually I did. Out of the many men I kissed after that, the man who would become my husband was the only one whose kisses compared. 

Edited by Cam
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On 12/2/2023 at 1:12 AM, flowergirl said:

My first kiss was OK, but my last kiss was very disappointing. I'm still surprised how someone in his 50s can be such a bad kisser. Or if we were just different types of kissers. 

To connect that to fundies: imagine being stuck for life with someone you never kissed before the wedding and then realising you don't like the kisses. And not having learned how to talk about anything sexual. I don't know how they solve that problem and I feel sorry for anybody trapped in a situation like this. 

I think some people are just ...better kissers than others. And some people respond to ... instruction better than others. 

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On 12/1/2023 at 10:12 PM, flowergirl said:

My first kiss was OK, but my last kiss was very disappointing. I'm still surprised how someone in his 50s can be such a bad kisser. Or if we were just different types of kissers. 

To connect that to fundies: imagine being stuck for life with someone you never kissed before the wedding and then realising you don't like the kisses. And not having learned how to talk about anything sexual. I don't know how they solve that problem and I feel sorry for anybody trapped in a situation like this. 

Weirdly my ex and I never meshed in our kissing styles - even after 20+ years together- but had extremely magnetic chemistry and an absolutely phenomenal sex life, even during our worst times. Definitely the best sexual match I ever had, and he said the same - but the kissing just never really clicked

 

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Apparently I signed up to get emails from Tia Levings’ website “The Anti-Fundamentalist” (I love the name as it cuts right to the chase.) An email sent today says her book, A WELL-TRAINED WIFE, will be out August 6, 2024. Levings describes herself with a few paragraphs in the email; I love her wording on this part:  “I escaped both high-control religion and violent, high-control marriage. I call it church-sanctioned domestic abuse because what happened to me was sanctioned by our fundamentalist evangelical churches.” Very powerful. 

More of what she writes is behind a paywall, which I’m not interested in pursuing, but I will probably buy her book even tho 98% of the books I read I get from the library. I don’t mind springing for her book, tho.

 

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19 minutes ago, Cam said:

More of what she writes is behind a paywall, which I’m not interested in pursuing, but I will probably buy her book even tho 98% of the books I read I get from the library. I don’t mind springing for her book, tho.

Same here - I follow her on instagram and I preordered the book the moment she announced it. I really liked her on Shiny Happy People, and I feel like she deserves every bit of support I can give her.

Edited by Nothing if not critical
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