Girl Defined 2: Aren’t They Women Yet?

[JermajestyDuggar]

Oh good this is going to be really bad if she has a miracle baby girl. I’ve heard way too many stories of adopted children being completely replaced by miracle biological babies. 
 

I personally think this has happened with the Brookers. I swear their only miracle baby together gets an insane amount of attention. Even though they have 5 older kids. And the one with special needs is barely acknowledged. 

[Giraffe]

9 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh good this is going to be really bad if she has a miracle baby girl. I’ve heard way too many stories of adopted children being completely replaced by miracle biological babies. 

I don't doubt this will be Kristen. Zach may try to maintain a parent-ish type relationship with them but Kristen seems like the type to outright abandom them if she can talk Zach into it. If she can't talk him into it she'll treat the boys with such contempt that they'll will respond accordingly and Kristen and Zach will "be forced to" institutionalize them until they turn 18.

Either way this is the worst case scenario for the boys and the beginning of what we predicted when they first adopted. 

Everything I've seen about Kristen tells me once her biochild is born (if it hasn't begun already) her relationship with them will be that of a resentful, bitter landlord who can't wait for their tenants to move out. 

Ftr I don't think it's going to matter if she has a boy or a girl. I think "bio child" will supercede all and nothing else will matter.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I definitely think she will keep the boys. But she will use them as brother dads. Lisa Metzger did this with her oldest internationally adopted daughter. She used her as a nanny for her biological children. I’m sure that’s what Kristen will do. They will have to do so much work around the house while mommy gives all her attention to the miracle baby. 

[MariaariaM]

18 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I don't doubt this will be Kristen. Zach may try to maintain a parent-ish type relationship with them but Kristen seems like the type to outright abandom them if she can talk Zach into it.

Wasn't Zach the one who refused to learn even some basic phrases in their native language? I see no reason to assume he'll be more of a parent than Kristen.

[Giraffe]

25 minutes ago, MariaariaM said:

Wasn't Zach the one who refused to learn even some basic phrases in their native language? I see no reason to assume he'll be more of a parent than Kristen.

Ugh, seriously? These people are too much. In that case then no, those boys don't stand a chance. 

[HermioneSparrow]

53 minutes ago, MariaariaM said:

Wasn't Zach the one who refused to learn even some basic phrases in their native language? I see no reason to assume he'll be more of a parent than Kristen.

Yes, he was. Kristen actually learned a little bit of Russian. They're the worst.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, HermioneSparrow said:

Yes, he was. Kristen actually learned a little bit of Russian. They're the worst.

Omg! So as cold and standoffish Kristen comes across to me she's the kind one of them?! Wow. I know it's a low bar but how depressing. I hope the boys keep speaking to each other in Ukranian when they're out if earshot of their adopters and that they maintain their bond. The good thing about them being older when they were adopted is they may have an inseparable bond and will stick together when the younger turns 18. On the younger's 18th birthday my wish is that they tell Kristen and Zach bye, never look back, and go create the life for themselves they each deserve. 

[BensAllergies]

20 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I definitely think she will keep the boys. But she will use them as brother dads. Lisa Metzger did this with her oldest internationally adopted daughter. She used her as a nanny for her biological children. I’m sure that’s what Kristen will do. They will have to do so much work around the house while mommy gives all her attention to the miracle baby. 

Bethany recently posted about how when the big cousins come to town, she doesn’t have to lift a finger (I’m paraphrasing here but that was the sentiment). It was a caption on a photo where the younger adopted boy was pumping gas. So I think the prediction of the boys being used for work is correct, and it may have already started with the pregnancy.

I don’t follow the Clarks closely; do they homeschool or send the boys to a school, whether public or private? I hope for their sake that they have a life outside of the household and visiting family to do chores for them.

[Giraffe]

Just now, BensAllergies said:

Bethany recently posted about how when the big cousins come to town, she doesn’t have to lift a finger (I’m paraphrasing here but that was the sentiment). It was a caption on a photo where the younger adopted boy was pumping gas. So I think the prediction of the boys being used for work is correct, and it may have already started with the pregnancy.

I don’t follow the Clarks closely; do they homeschool or send the boys to a school, whether public or private? I hope for their sake that they have a life outside of the household and visiting family to do chores for them.

No, they homeschool. It's all part of their isolation. 

[MariaariaM]

On 5/13/2024 at 6:59 PM, Giraffe said:

I hope the boys keep speaking to each other in Ukranian when they're out if earshot of their adopters and that they maintain their bond.

ISB about to go on a road trip:

I guess if their native language is Russian, same as Andrii (sp?), they might get a chance to practice when Elissa and he are in town. Which might be a lot if the Ukrainian embassy no longer supports Ukrainian men who left the country rather than being drafted. I don't support the draft (although I understand it more when the enemy is literally invading your home and it's not for some kind of proxy war) but if it means the boys might get a bit of backup that's a silver lining. Even if it's only due to Uncle Andrii's sense of pride.

When they got married Andrii was quite clear about not wanting to live in the US. Which Reddit assumed was a cynical ploy because clearly everyone wants to live in the US of A (/s), but I'm inclined to think he was genuine. Living in Ukraine (pre-war) with a US wife connected to churches with deep pockets he was a big fish in a medium-sized pond. Living in the US he's a small fish in a huge pond. One that's constantly encountering the assumption he's in it for the greencard. That must hurt his pride, and he seems like a proud (and nasty) man.

I could see him connecting with the boys, if only for the status of being an expert, or a protector. And maybe to show up his in-laws - and in his mind by extension all Americans - as terrible parents compared to him and his assimilated tradwife.

[CTRLZero]

There is a new YouTube video collab with Sam and Tanner of Zelph on the Shelf and Dav and Bethany.  Zelph fireside chat with Girl Defined - YouTube

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

There is a new YouTube video collab with Sam and Tanner of Zelph on the Shelf and Dav and Bethany.  Zelph fireside chat with Girl Defined - YouTube

I recommend no one watch it on actual YouTube so you don’t give them views. I’m personally waiting for a recap. But I believe you can also watch on yew tube.

My fear is that Zelph are being way too nice and only giving them softball questions. Instead of harder questions about their hate for LGBTQ+ community. 

[CTRLZero]

28 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My fear is that Zelph are being way too nice and only giving them softball questions. Instead of harder questions about their hate for LGBTQ+ community. 

I get that, but it’s probably difficult since they are guests at the house.  There isn’t a one-size-fits-all for deconstruction (or disentangling, as Bethany terms it). 

[justpassingthru]

This Zelph thing is such a shit show/money grab. 

Since this was filmed Bethany has doubled down on the whole "biblical womanhood" thing on Girl Defined. 

I still think the Zelph reasoning of "she had a contract to fulfill and had to write this book" is BS. They chose the topic. You can break contracts. 

I just don't see Bethany changing. She's doing what she's doing to keep Dave around. Eventually that will come to a head.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I get that, but it’s probably difficult since they are guests at the house.  There isn’t a one-size-fits-all for deconstruction (or disentangling, as Bethany terms it). 

Yeah that’s their first problem. They probably should have met on neutral ground like an Airbnb.

[MariaariaM]

20 hours ago, justpassingthru said:

I still think the Zelph reasoning of "she had a contract to fulfill and had to write this book" is BS. They chose the topic. You can break contracts. 

That absolutely is BS, whether they know it or not. I doubt the contract specified much, even if they had a topic. She could've written about how she's starting to change on this topic, or put it off a while until she knew what she was going to say. Writers seem to miss deadlines all the time. I'm guessing they handed in the manuscript already and spent the money/advance so backing out would've been inconvenient. 

On the one hand I think it's a good thing for possible future development Zelph gave them a soft place to land. On the other they absolutely went overboard in the past weeks, telling everyone how wonderful Bethany really is. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, especially before people had seen and given their reaction to the finished video. 

[CTRLZero]

I’m finding these interesting takes on the whole interview system.  Since Samantha and Tanner went the whole agonizing route of morphing from harmful and unpleasant beliefs years ago, I thought they would be a good duo to interview a similar couple.  Maybe I’m wrong.  Is this all just a money-making grab on both sides?  Should we side-eye Dav?  

[JermajestyDuggar]

Ugggghh you guys. I don’t want to watch but I feel like I have to for the sake of FJ. Sighhhhhhh. I will try today. 

[louisa05]

On 5/12/2024 at 2:47 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh good this is going to be really bad if she has a miracle baby girl. I’ve heard way too many stories of adopted children being completely replaced by miracle biological babies. 
 

So I know a then evangelical Christian who adopted a baby girl from China, then had a bio daughter. This isn't always how it goes. 

She and her husband consider themselves saviors for taking their daughter away from China and lavishing every possible thing on her. She is about 25 now and still posts on her adoption day--long posts praising them for saving her from a life there. They taught her that. She got anything she ever wanted. She was the only child her mother ever talked about. Life revolved around her interests. She was seriously in ballet as a child and teen. When she started pointe, her mother flew 500 miles with her to fit and buy the kind of custom pointe shoes professional dancers use.  Meanwhile her sister, their bio child, was left to her own devices. Her mother, who was my good friend when they were growing up, never talked about her. They would throw her in some camps for different things in the summers but they never went out of their way to support her interests. She was not the star of the show at all. She was always an afterthought. 

The other factor here would be that if it is a girl, they just aren't as important to evangelicals as boys. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

So I know a then evangelical Christian who adopted a baby girl from China, then had a bio daughter. This isn't always how it goes. 

She and her husband consider themselves saviors for taking their daughter away from China and lavishing every possible thing on her. She is about 25 now and still posts on her adoption day--long posts praising them for saving her from a life there. They taught her that. She got anything she ever wanted. She was the only child her mother ever talked about. Life revolved around her interests. She was seriously in ballet as a child and teen. When she started pointe, her mother flew 500 miles with her to fit and buy the kind of custom pointe shoes professional dancers use.  Meanwhile her sister, their bio child, was left to her own devices. Her mother, who was my good friend when they were growing up, never talked about her. They would throw her in some camps for different things in the summers but they never went out of their way to support her interests. She was not the star of the show at all. She was always an afterthought. 

The other factor here would be that if it is a girl, they just aren't as important to evangelicals as boys. 

Since Kristin never got to experience the baby years, toddler years, or preschool years with her adopted boys, I think she is going to already prefer this kid. Even if he is a boy. She will get something with this baby she never got with the boys. 

[MariaariaM]

27 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The other factor here would be that if it is a girl, they just aren't as important to evangelicals as boys. 

Have you seen how Bethany treats her girl-prop compared to last season's boy prop? Davey is a boy as well as the first-born, yet she barely acknowledges his existence. The Baird family is super weird (even) for a fundie family.

[louisa05]

5 minutes ago, MariaariaM said:

Have you seen how Bethany treats her girl-prop compared to last season's boy prop? Davey is a boy as well as the first-born, yet she barely acknowledges his existence. The Baird family is super weird (even) for a fundie family.

But Kristin isn't Bethany and Davey wasn't adopted/"saved". I'm just saying you can't predict how people will behave. 

My friend's adopted daughter was 16 months old when they got her. When she had her bio child, she very quickly announced to the world that she hated the newborn/infant "thing". 

[MariaariaM]

Anything is possible, of course, but what you describe is very much an outlier. I hope, I really hope that Kristen and Whatsisface genuinely love their sons, treat them well, and will treat all three of their kids well forever. But I'm doubtful. The good news is that we probably won't know unless/until the boys get their own social media, because Kristen is far less public than Bethany.

[JermajestyDuggar]

41 minutes ago, MariaariaM said:

Have you seen how Bethany treats her girl-prop compared to last season's boy prop? Davey is a boy as well as the first-born, yet she barely acknowledges his existence. The Baird family is super weird (even) for a fundie family.

Yeah the Bairds are very girl centric. The oldest son in the Baird family was molested and his mother basically told him to suck it up. He has said Heidi focused way more on the girls than the boys in their family. 

[Giraffe]

Imo this baby's sex isn't going to matter. Regardless boy or girl she's going to relegate her first two boys to nothing more than servants for them and their golden sibling. We've already seen some of it when Bethany posted how they were pumping her gas. Thise boys are going to end up as nothing more than lrops for how godly Kristen and her husband (Keith? Kurt?) are. They trusted god with their fertility and god has blessed them with a child. Their legal children are mere placeholders until their real* child arrives. 
 

* these are people who absolutely will /do see their older two as their adopted kids and not their real children.