Bontragers/Bowers/Helferichs 12

[Caroline]

9 hours ago, anachronistic said:

Of all the things that they do, I have trouble finding fault in prison ministry, though I certainly welcome others to educate me otherwise. Prisoners have so few rights and are treated so badly, and have so little to do, having happy, healthy people come in to talk to them and sing must be a nice distraction. Whatever gives comfort basically.

I think it's the captive audience part that bothers me. (No pun intended. Prison must be a dismal experience.)

[SwimmerBoy29]

14 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Crockett Bowers is 17, I think.

Joe Xiques, who toured with them previously, is now in something called the Young Original Band, which has actually gotten gigs (hear that, Lawson Bates?): https://youngoriginalband.com/ 

I’m having a slow morning so I looked into them and here are my initial thoughts:

- their profile picture on Spotify gives off definitely gives homeschooled vibes. I think it’s partially the way Silas is sitting with his cello.

- they’ve got talent, no doubt about it. No horribly done auto tuned here (cough cough @ Lawson)

- I actually really enjoyed Lakehouse. Would be nice if it wasn’t a song by a clearly very Conservative Christian band.

- and last but not least it’ll be interesting to see if Carver Bowers tries at some point to portray himself as a mainstream country artist and gets soundly rejected by everyone except for Jason Aldean.

- two of the members (Lily and Benjamin) are either married or Lily’s middle name is Day and she just goes by her full name for whatever reason. No comment there because I know a lot of artists do that.

- they’ve been on NPR’s Tiny Desk which really surprises me because isn’t NPR known for being more progressive? Maybe someone just didn’t do their full research (ie one of the band members being the son of a far right conservative personality)? Either that or they’re really good at PR.

Edited January 25 by SwimmerBoy29

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, SwimmerBoy29 said:

I’m having a slow morning so I looked into them and here are my initial thoughts:

- their profile picture on Spotify gives off definitely gives homeschooled vibes. I think it’s partially the way Silas is sitting with his cello.

- they’ve got talent, no doubt about it. No horribly done auto tuned here (cough cough @ Lawson)

- I actually really enjoyed Lakehouse. Would be nice if it wasn’t a song by a clearly very Conservative Christian band.

- and last but not least it’ll be interesting to see if Carver Bowers tries at some point to portray himself as a mainstream country artist and gets soundly rejected by everyone except for Jason Aldean.

- two of the members (Lily and Benjamin) are either married or Lily’s middle name is Day and she just goes by her full name for whatever reason. No comment there because I know a lot of artists do that.

- they’ve been on NPR’s Tiny Desk which really surprises me because isn’t NPR known for being more progressive? Maybe someone just didn’t do their full research (ie one of the band members being the son of a far right conservative personality)? Either that or they’re really good at PR.

I think Lily and Ben might be siblings. 

[FiveAcres]

14 hours ago, Caroline said:

I think it's the captive audience part that bothers me. (No pun intended. Prison must be a dismal experience.)

Especially if participants are taking part to get benefits that are not available to inmates who are not-religious or too honest to pretend to be religious.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I used to work with a lot of people who had been in jail or prison at some point in their lives or has close friends or family that were. And the joke was that everyone found Jesus in prison. Everyone’s always looking for Jesus and he was just hiding in prison all along! But the truth behind the joke was that prison populations were targeted by Christian evangelicals because they are a captive audience who were currently paying for sins for sometimes many years to come. So it’s very easy to exploit prison populations for your own gain. 

[Giraffe]

9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I used to work with a lot of people who had been in jail or prison at some point in their lives or has close friends or family that were. And the joke was that everyone found Jesus in prison. Everyone’s always looking for Jesus and he was just hiding in prison all along! But the truth behind the joke was that prison populations were targeted by Christian evangelicals because they are a captive audience who were currently paying for sins for sometimes many years to come. So it’s very easy to exploit prison populations for your own gain. 

What's really awful is sometimes people have gotten early release for being part of a Bible club or slme religion thing, too. (Looking at you, Indiana lady who killed kids when you drunkenly went around a bus and got out early because you participated in a religious "recovery" program)

[HereticHick]

Is Liz going to get to go to the DR without a chaperone? Does she need to take one of the brothers that she's dating? : )

[Caroline]

12 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Is Liz going to get to go to the DR without a chaperone? Does she need to take one of the brothers that she's dating? : )

These incentives are so bizarre. What if you're one of those people (like me) who would never choose that kind of vacation? I dislike tropical climates and beach vacations. Also, I have a hard time politically with destinations in poorer countries that are overrun with American and European hotel/spa conglomerates where local people are allowed to work but could never afford to stay at. That's my particular bias and choice. I prefer a trip where I can interact with the people who actually live there so that I can learn more about them and their way of life. It's the same reason I wouldn't go on a cruise. (I know we've already had a cruise discussions somewhere (Jill, maybe?), so I'm not trying to start that debate again )

Is there something especially special or inexpensive about Punta Cana? Isn't that the location of those awesome Plexus retreats? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, Caroline said:

These incentives are so bizarre. What if you're one of those people (like me) who would never choose that kind of vacation? I dislike tropical climates and beach vacations. Also, I have a hard time politically with destinations in poorer countries that are overrun with American and European hotel/spa conglomerates where local people are allowed to work but could never afford to stay at. That's my particular bias and choice. I prefer a trip where I can interact with the people who actually live there so that I can learn more about them and their way of life. It's the same reason I wouldn't go on a cruise. (I know we've already had a cruise discussions somewhere (Jill, maybe?), so I'm not trying to start that debate again )

Is there something especially special or inexpensive about Punta Cana? Isn't that the location of those awesome Plexus retreats? 

It’s because they know they won’t have to spend that much money on a “prize” because not everyone can attend. MLMs are scams in so many ways. Including their shitty trips. 

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s because they know they won’t have to spend that much money on a “prize” because not everyone can attend. MLMs are scams in so many ways. Including their shitty trips. 

Yup. Many of these MLMers are mothers who won't be able to go. And I wouldn't be surprised if the "round trip airfare" is only from Miami-- so someone like Liz Bontrager would have to pay for the Iowa-->Miami  leg of the trip, which will take longer and most likely cost more, than the Miami-->Punta Cana leg. Also, you probably can't do Iowa-->Miami-->Punta Cana in one day, so you will either be paying for a hotel room, or napping in airport seating.

Also, there is no mention of ground transportation being included--or meals!!

[TheGleeTeam]

Gee, can't wait for all of her posts on all the immodest women in swimsuits at the resort. Given that Young Living seems to have a lot of fundie/conservative women involved who don't drink or wear traditional bathing suits in public, I'm sort of surprised they picked a resort in the DR. Actually, never mind, they love feeling superior to others so it's perfect. 

Also thanks to those who pointed out ethical issues with prison ministry that I wasn't able to express other than a general sense of ick. To me it feels similar to places like Salvation Army that provide hot meals for people but make them sit through religious stuff first (for the record, the foodbank I used to work for that supplied food for these kinds of programs specifically prohibits required religious activities in order to get food- but it definitely still happened and made my blood boil every time). I think prison ministry is much more for the egos of the people going in to the prisons rather than genuine concern for the incarcerated folks. 

[anachronistic]

To echo @TheGleeTeam, I love that you  can be ignorant on a subject and freely admit that here.I love that I can be educated without having to feel shame over not knowing things. I learn things every time I come here, not just fundie gossip (Although goodness knows I do enjoy that 😀) but genuine things that I'm really curious about and want to learn. This small corner of the Internet makes my world a lot bigger and I am so grateful. Now I know more about prison ministry than I ever knew before. And learning is always a good thing in my book.

[TheGleeTeam]

Carver Bowers proposed to his girlfriend Haley: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vfGWuJ3Tt/?img_index=1. I don't remember if he's the oldest son and the one people were possibly linking to Johanna Duggar? Anyway, the couple has a joint instagram page called jesusfirstrelationship so I guess they'll be the next newlyweds giving super authoritative marriage advice 🙄. Her insta handle is "haleysplantationlife_"....do people in the South really still call them plantations? To me that has a very negative connotation.

Because I can't keep the Bowers kids straight, I did double check and he is not the one that just joined the Bontragers' family band. Also I can't believe the Bontragers are still doing the family band touring thing now that they only have 3 (?) unmarried kids left?

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, TheGleeTeam said:

Carver Bowers proposed to his girlfriend Haley: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vfGWuJ3Tt/?img_index=1. I don't remember if he's the oldest son and the one people were possibly linking to Johanna Duggar? Anyway, the couple has a joint instagram page called jesusfirstrelationship so I guess they'll be the next newlyweds giving super authoritative marriage advice 🙄. Her insta handle is "haleysplantationlife_"....do people in the South really still call them plantations? To me that has a very negative connotation.

Haley's family seem to double down on the use of the word plantation. (you can rent a cottage on their "plantation" thru AirBnB--read more here: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/25351900?source_impression_id=p3_1706724926_Jh%2FrW8pXZgTjKAVQ) And, like the Bowers, they have a strong wiff of Christian nationalism/Trump MAGA World/Christian militia about them. I feel like the Pauls and the Bowers both have a shed full of guns and ammo and fantasies about a coming Race War. I'd bet a large amount of money that multiple members of the Paul family have Confederate flags on their clothing/hats/trucks.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, TheGleeTeam said:

Carver Bowers proposed to his girlfriend Haley: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vfGWuJ3Tt/?img_index=1. I don't remember if he's the oldest son and the one people were possibly linking to Johanna Duggar? Anyway, the couple has a joint instagram page called jesusfirstrelationship so I guess they'll be the next newlyweds giving super authoritative marriage advice 🙄. Her insta handle is "haleysplantationlife_"....do people in the South really still call them plantations? To me that has a very negative connotation.

Because I can't keep the Bowers kids straight, I did double check and he is not the one that just joined the Bontragers' family band. Also I can't believe the Bontragers are still doing the family band touring thing now that they only have 3 (?) unmarried kids left?

The two oldest Bowers kids are Lina and Cass. Then it goes Charlie who stays out of the spotlight. I really thought he would be married by now. Then it’s Carver who is newly engaged. He was in that band with Joe Xiques (who used to travel with the Bontragers). But Carver seems like he might prefer singing solo these days. Then there is Christian. He also stays off of social media for the most part. The 4th son is Crockett and I think he’s the one traveling with the Bontragers. The Bowers’ last 3 kids are still underage. 

[dawn9476]

1 hour ago, TheGleeTeam said:

Carver Bowers proposed to his girlfriend Haley: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vfGWuJ3Tt/?img_index=1. I don't remember if he's the oldest son and the one people were possibly linking to Johanna Duggar? Anyway, the couple has a joint instagram page called jesusfirstrelationship so I guess they'll be the next newlyweds giving super authoritative marriage advice 🙄. Her insta handle is "haleysplantationlife_"....do people in the South really still call them plantations? To me that has a very negative connotation.

Because I can't keep the Bowers kids straight, I did double check and he is not the one that just joined the Bontragers' family band. Also I can't believe the Bontragers are still doing the family band touring thing now that they only have 3 (?) unmarried kids left?

Yes, People thought he was going to eventually be courting Joanna Duggar because they were in all these pictures together with her other siblings but IIRC, he denied to The Sun a couple of years ago that he was interested in Johanna and was talking with another girl. I always wondered if this was the girl he was talking to but said nothing more because she would have been underage at the time. I mean it does look like carver and Hayley didn't make it officially public till last summer because she had turned 18.

Edited January 31 by dawn9476

[Nothing if not critical]

19 hours ago, TheGleeTeam said:

Anyway, the couple has a joint instagram page called jesusfirstrelationship

I know it's meant to indicate that they put Jesus first in their relationship, but I always read it as "Jesus' first relationship", which makes me giggle 🤭 

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I know it's meant to indicate that they put Jesus first in their relationship, but I always read it as "Jesus' first relationship", which makes me giggle 🤭 

After 2000 years Jesus finally got himself a girlfriend! Good for him!

[GreenBeans]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:20 PM, Nothing if not critical said:

I know it's meant to indicate that they put Jesus first in their relationship, but I always read it as "Jesus' first relationship", which makes me giggle 🤭 

I feel like this needs to be worked into a thread title somehow. Or do we still get new status ranks? “Jesus’ first relationship” would be hilarious! 😁

[nelliebelle1197]

Closing it earlier cause I can and we need to celebrate Jesus’ first date