Remnant Fellowship 23: Elizabeth's Phoning It & Michael Did a Runner. Literally.

[quiversR4hunting]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:57 PM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I periodically check out the RF Leadership Team page to see if new people are added, previous people returned (Days, Angers), people have left. The Gormsens and Stites still appear to be large and in charge.

Elle Shamblin is now a major leader. She's now listed as Erin.

Elizabeth Hannah has a new photo. Not to be mean, but she looks ill, old, not well at all, and very very very thin.

https://www.remnantfellowship.org/about-remnant-fellowship/leadership-team/

She reminds me of Lady Elaine in this picture. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Interesting that there are no Dec. RF weddings so far and no announced upcoming Christmas or New Year's nuptials.

The last RF wedding was Nov 12,  The 3 prior to Nov. were Oct. 22, Sept. 24, and June 17.

Is it possible that RF is running low on young people to coerce encourage to marry before they're adults?

[JermajestyDuggar]

55 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Interesting that there are no Dec. RF weddings so far and no announced upcoming Christmas or New Year's nuptials.

The last RF wedding was Nov 12,  The 3 prior to Nov. were Oct. 22, Sept. 24, and June 17.

Is it possible that RF is running low on young people to coerce encourage to marry before they're adults?

I think it’s been a trend the last few years. It’s completely frowned on to get married under age 18. But they are running out of 18/19/20 year olds to get married. They are waiting for the 17 year olds to turn 18 and I’m sure there’s plenty of pressure to marry young. 

[Howl]

Can't attest to the accuracy of this tweet, but here ya go.  A reminder that Gwen left zip to Remnant Fellowship in her will. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

All the money must’ve gone to Elizabeth and Michael. Elizabeth sold her enormous house and moved into Ashlawn. And now this house is sold. Elizabeth must be rolling in money. Yet she isn’t doing all the leading and speaking Gwen did. I imagine no one thought much about Gwen living the high life because she ran RF. But that’s not the case with Elizabeth. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I see Mitchell Dodge and Wife #3 celebrated their first year anniversary on 12/31. Do we think this one is a keeper or given the short length of his previous 2 marriages, do we think #4 will happen sometime this year?

[freefromthin]

I watched the latest rally and Elizabeth is still calling in. She sounds pretty frantic and somewhat paranoid. I can't help wondering if her paranoia is causing her to stay away from in-person service. She mentioned the media in her rant. She seems to think that there's still a lot of attention focused on them (herself, Gwen, and the church), but from what I can tell, people have moved on. She mentioned the book that she is writing about her mother and how she wants the truth to be known. She said that her mother was the sweetest person and couldn't harm anyone.

[nelliebelle1197]

8 hours ago, freefromthin said:

I watched the latest rally and Elizabeth is still calling in. She sounds pretty frantic and somewhat paranoid. I can't help wondering if her paranoia is causing her to stay away from in-person service. She mentioned the media in her rant. She seems to think that there's still a lot of attention focused on them (herself, Gwen, and the church), but from what I can tell, people have moved on. She mentioned the book that she is writing about her mother and how she wants the truth to be known. She said that her mother was the sweetest person and couldn't harm anyone.

So they have not have an in person leader in what, three years now??

[JermajestyDuggar]

Gwen was always the main speaker. But before Gwen died, there were always others who lead as well. People like Durville Patton. They would lead in prayer and things like that. The church has a ton of leaders now. I imagine a lot of them are leading the congregation in person but Elizabeth is phoning in. She is so different from her mother. I really don’t think she will ever fully lead like her mother did. I’m just waiting for a David Miscavage type to come out of the shadows and take over. I thought it would be Ted Anger. But now I’m not so sure. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Neither the Angers nor the Days have reappeared on the RF leadership page, although they are both on FB. The Angers especially about their real estate business. I assume they all are still RF members, but I don't assume they are RF Royalty any longer.

I'm still surious to know the real reasons Tedd A and Rob D left Leadership.

[JermajestyDuggar]

44 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Neither the Angers nor the Days have reappeared on the RF leadership page, although they are both on FB. The Angers especially about their real estate business. I assume they all are still RF members, but I don't assume they are RF Royalty any longer.

I'm still surious to know the real reasons Tedd A and Rob D left Leadership.

Me too. I would love for an Ex-RF member to come on here and tell us what went down behind the scenes. Because I’m super nosy like that. 

[freefromthin]

13 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

So they have not have an in person leader in what, three years now??

Right after the crash, Elizabeth DID speak at the memorial and one additional service, but then (as far as I know) she's never been up front again. I'm not sure whether or not she ever came in person after that. She's done quite a few call-ins, though. She seems to be intent on honoring her mother's legacy, but when she was up front the last time, she complained about how hard it was to be up front. She looked VERY uncomfortable, unlike Gwen.

[SerenitybyJan]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gwen was always the main speaker. But before Gwen died, there were always others who lead as well. People like Durville Patton. They would lead in prayer and things like that. The church has a ton of leaders now. I imagine a lot of them are leading the congregation in person but Elizabeth is phoning in. She is so different from her mother. I really don’t think she will ever fully lead like her mother did. I’m just waiting for a David Miscavage type to come out of the shadows and take over. I thought it would be Ted Anger. But now I’m not so sure. 

I get the feeling Patrick Stites would be a good candidate for that. They took in the children of the couple that died in the crash right? They're marrying off their daughter soon. 

[quiversR4hunting]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:22 PM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I see Mitchell Dodge and Wife #3 celebrated their first year anniversary on 12/31. Do we think this one is a keeper or given the short length of his previous 2 marriages, do we think #4 will happen sometime this year?

Odds are not in his favor, especially if he hasn't had counselingvas to why the first two failed. "Statistics have shown that in the U.S., 50% of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201202/the-high-failure-rate-of-second-and-third-marriages

[Marmion]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:19 AM, Concerned said:

"Distains" grace? Wow! That's a strong statement and a scary thought! Does that mean that she disdained Jesus Christ as well? I always heard her mention "God," but did she ever talk about Jesus? Grace and Jesus go hand in hand.

I know that when Gwen first started Remnant, she was frustrated with the false grace message that basically justified Christians to live in sin. So she abandoned grace altogether?

It is also my understanding that the Church of Christ is typically a "legalistic" denomination. That part of her background must have been hardwired into her from a young age. I guess she liked it since legalism creates a sense of control. However, she rebelled against some of the beliefs of the Church of Christ such as not allowing musical instruments in church and not allowing women to preach. 

As for the perfection thing - I don't understand it either. I mean, Christians are on a lifelong journey to become more like Christ, but Jesus was the only perfect person who ever lived and who will ever be. If Gwen/Elizabeth was/is seen as "perfect," does the mean that they are seen as Jesus?

None of it makes sense. Grace is necessary to help us to become more like Jesus. Without grace, there is no hope. If Gwen didn't believe in grace then how did she explain the method by which a person could reach perfection? 

My family members are still overweight after being at Remnant for several years. How do they get away with that? Having excess weight sure isn't "perfect" in Gwen's eyes. At some point did Gwen "ease up" on her strict attempt to make everyone super skinny? Did she begin to value the larger numbers of members over the need to have every single one of them perfectly skinny?

What is "the message" that Gwen taught and that Elizabeth is trying to preserve for future generations? It seems like a hodge podge of ideas that are certainly NOT Biblical.

Does anyone have answers to any of my questions? 

 

While I don't wish to come across as being an authoritative know it all , I do have some perspective on the doctrine of Christian Perfection / Entire Sanctification , since as I have mentioned before on this forum , especiaaly in prior threads concerning the Remnant Fellowship ,  I was brought up in churches , such as the Church of the Nazarene , which as part of the larger Holiness Movement taught this as being a second work of grace .  If the Remnant Fellowship's teaching on sanctification , or glorification , is in line with that I was taught , then I can make an educated guess in answer to your well thought out questions .  In contrast to those Christians who believe in eternal security , Christian perfectionists teach that assurance of a continued state of saving grace is conditional upon remaining faithful to living a life of holiness unto the Lord.  If one were to become lax /lukewarm in their commitment , then accordingly God would cast them out of His good graces .  So any adherent who takes such teaching seriously to heart will always feel insecure in their personal relationship with God , fearing that they might not be good enough to merit continued divine favor .  On the other hand , those who do feel self righteous enough to claim to be as perfectly Christlike as the Lord Himself , will tend to feel that they are above reproach , as the Holy Spirit guides their every move .  While not exactly seen as being of equal status with Jesus , the Christian perfectionist will consider themselves to be of equal virtue . As to how to attain this supposed so called second blessing of entire sanctification , in contrast to the more conventional doctrine of progressive sanctification , that more standard evangelicals such as yourself would believe in , this is actually attained as the end result of mortification , which is when the believer becomes so sorrowful of their sinful nature that they long to die to self and become reborn in the likeness of Christ Jesus .  According to Holiness doctrine , if and when this occurs , the regenerated Christian will become by nature as pure in heart as the Most High .   This in a nutshell was what all I was brought up to believe to the the full gospel truth , as best I have been able to understood it .  P.S. If I may , here are a few links to resources that both explain , and critique the doctrine of entire sanctification . The last link is a personal account from a woman who had been the daughter of a Nazarene pastor .   

Spoiler

http://www.jcnot4me.com/page92.html

Spoiler

https://karissaknoxsorrell.com/2013/06/12/im-a-nazbeen-and-this-might-be-why-im-guilty/

 

[Tibby]

On 1/12/2024 at 5:04 AM, freefromthin said:

I watched the latest rally and Elizabeth is still calling in. She sounds pretty frantic and somewhat paranoid. I can't help wondering if her paranoia is causing her to stay away from in-person service. She mentioned the media in her rant. She seems to think that there's still a lot of attention focused on them (herself, Gwen, and the church), but from what I can tell, people have moved on. She mentioned the book that she is writing about her mother and how she wants the truth to be known. She said that her mother was the sweetest person and couldn't harm anyone.

That was not a “phone in”. It was a recorded message. You can tell because everyone was absolutely silent in the seats and there was no dialogue. When she calls in there is back and forth and people there do not hesitate to give a standing ovation whenever she says something they like. She pauses during those. And the audio started a second or two before he completed the introduction. At the end when Naomi Swindell said something about how Elizabeth wasn’t sure what kind of a day she was going to have so wasn’t sure she would phone in made me want to gag. Naomi Swindell is a big fat liar. She did not used to be. (It is amazing to me what rising in leadership in a church does to anyone’s level of honesty, regardless of which church it is.) I’m sure Elizabeth was watching, but there is no way that was a phone call.

[freefromthin]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:44 AM, Tibby said:

That was not a “phone in”. It was a recorded message. You can tell because everyone was absolutely silent in the seats and there was no dialogue. When she calls in there is back and forth and people there do not hesitate to give a standing ovation whenever she says something they like. She pauses during those. And the audio started a second or two before he completed the introduction. At the end when Naomi Swindell said something about how Elizabeth wasn’t sure what kind of a day she was going to have so wasn’t sure she would phone in made me want to gag. Naomi Swindell is a big fat liar. She did not used to be. (It is amazing to me what rising in leadership in a church does to anyone’s level of honesty, regardless of which church it is.) I’m sure Elizabeth was watching, but there is no way that was a phone call.

Great point! I had not thought about any of that. I find it interesting that whether it was pre-recorded or a phone call as in times past, they are content to have her do that when Gwen was most often there in person.

[Tibby]

22 hours ago, freefromthin said:

Great point! I had not thought about any of that. I find it interesting that whether it was pre-recorded or a phone call as in times past, they are content to have her do that when Gwen was most often there in person.

I am curious if they are content. I am curious as to what the arrangement is between E and Remnant. What exactly is her position? Gwen started the church and did not take a salary, but can they force Elizabeth to do the same? Does E now own the copyrights to all of the materials/books that Gwen wrote? Gwen was there in person but she also preached. I have heard E do motivational speeches like the message at the rally but I have never heard her preach. Has anyone else?

[freefromthin]

5 hours ago, Tibby said:

I am curious if they are content. I am curious as to what the arrangement is between E and Remnant. What exactly is her position? Gwen started the church and did not take a salary, but can they force Elizabeth to do the same? Does E now own the copyrights to all of the materials/books that Gwen wrote? Gwen was there in person but she also preached. I have heard E do motivational speeches like the message at the rally but I have never heard her preach. Has anyone else?

That would all be very interesting to know.

[throwaway9988]

I’ve always been very critical on this forum of how mind-numbing the weekly testimonies of Remnant leaders and members are. With Gwen dead and Elizabeth shirking the spotlight, I’d bet that Remnant worship services are now more dreary than ever, because they probably make up for the lack of any new sermons with extra time for testimonies. Being a Remnant member must be such a slog nowadays, but most of them are too addicted to how the cult makes them feel to break free. 
 

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

I’ve always been very critical on this forum of how mind-numbing the weekly testimonies of Remnant leaders and members are. With Gwen dead and Elizabeth shirking the spotlight, I’d bet that Remnant worship services are now more dreary than ever, because they probably make up for the lack of any new sermons with extra time for testimonies. Being a Remnant member must be such a slog nowadays, but most of them are too addicted to how the cult makes them feel to break free. 
 

I imagine it’s all the non church service activities that they live for. The weddings, the holidays, the feasts, the summer camps. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

Well then!

 

 

[shesinsane]

Phil Williams! I learned about him on John Oliver's show. 

Quote

To gauge Phil's impact, consider this quote from a prominent Nashville political strategist:

"If the press calls, call your PR person. If Phil Williams calls, call your lawyer because you're in trouble."

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I will definitely be watching Sun. night

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, shesinsane said:

Phil Williams! I learned about him on John Oliver's show. 

 

Lol I remember that episode. I had never heard of Phil until then!