Remnant Fellowship 23: Elizabeth's Phoning It & Michael Did a Runner. Literally.

[RFfamANON]

15 hours ago, 7Freedom said:

Her denial was for financial and power gain only!!!! I'm not surprised, I've alway thought most/all of what she did was for money

I think the movie was particularly kind to her in this respect. It made her seem like she really believed that she was given this special message. I think that it was much more sinister than that. I think she wanted more control. And the way to get that was to build her own “congregation”  IMHO it was all about power and greed rather than some mistake about a “calling”

[Coconut Flan]

I think the last screen of the movie made it plain where the producers stood.  I got the maintain control and money grab quite plainly from the movie.  

[CTRLZero]

1 minute ago, Coconut Flan said:

I think the last screen of the movie made it plain where the producers stood.  I got the maintain control and money grab quite plainly from the movie.  

I also think David Shamblin wasn’t averse to hauling in more money.  In the movie, I think this was demonstrated when he added a “1” to Gwen’s proposed pricing of her workshop.  Did the movie mention he had a divinity degree (not sure if I heard or remember that correctly)?  In any event, I think he was the money strategist as Gwen’s empire grew. 

[rabbitholejulie]

If the plane hadn't crashed I wonder how long Gwen would have stayed with Joe.  And vice versa.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

44 minutes ago, rabbitholejulie said:

If the plane hadn't crashed I wonder how long Gwen would have stayed with Joe.  And vice versa.  

I predicted when they got married that they would end up divorcing. I think maybe they would have lasted 7 years at most. Probably just 5.

[TN-peach]

The story I have heard in Memphis is that she sat down with Adrian Rogers former pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church (HUGE Southern Baptist Church in Memphis) and when he asked her some theological questions - specifically about the trinity and he got her answer.  When he realized the difference in her belief and the basic tenants of Christian theology, he said that Weigh Down would no longer be welcomed at Bellevue and once he did that it went across the whole of the Southern Baptist Convention because Dr. Rogers was President of the Convention for several years. 

[Hane]

@CTRLZero, you are correct: the movie did mention David’s divinity degree.

[rabbitholejulie]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I predicted when they got married that they would end up divorcing. I think maybe they would have lasted 7 years at most. Probably just 5.

I think there may already have been problems- remember one time he filmed the you tube show without her, no mention of where she was and people talked...

Plus everything was still in Gwen's name and he probably had no direct access to money.  He was a con artist.  But then so was she.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, rabbitholejulie said:

I think there may already have been problems- remember one time he filmed the you tube show without her, no mention of where she was and people talked...

Plus everything was still in Gwen's name and he probably had no direct access to money.  He was a con artist.  But then so was she.

Yeah, when they died, they had been married 2.5 years. I could definitely imagine a divorce by year 5.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Oh and I want to say that name changes are a common cult tactic. I think Gwen was probably more worried about the way a name sounded than changing a name as control. But it probably still worked in both ways. Example is the Angers pronouncing their name differently when Gwen tells them to. Because Anger sounds bad but An-Jer sounds good. I think she wanted Erin Shamblin to go by Elle so she wouldn’t get mixed up with her assistant. It was all about Gwen’s comfort. Now Michelle changing to Elizabeth is sort of a mystery. I think she changed around the time Gwen started her church. Everyone in high school knew her as Michelle. But she left all her friends in high school behind and only had friends in the church once her mother started it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gwen thought it would be a change into a new life in RF. Gwen probably thought it sounded classier too. 

[Cults-r-us]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:44 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I predicted when they got married that they would end up divorcing. I think maybe they would have lasted 7 years at most. Probably just 5.

Man, that would be a long 7-10 years for Tarzan.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I always thought that Elizabeth's name change was because Michael and Elle and Michelle was too rhyming. 

I seem to remember reading (here?) that the name change happened around the time Gwod was pushing Elizabeth to date/ be serious about Brandon Hannah when she was not interested in him at all.

I always thought it odd Gwod named her children Michael and Michelle anyway -- 2 versions of the same name.

Don't get me started on the all the G-named grandchildren. Talk about Gwod worship.

Edited February 8 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[JermajestyDuggar]

36 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I always thought that Elizabeth's name change was because Michael and Elle and Michelle was too rhyming. 

I seem to remember reading (here?) that the name change happened around the time Gwod was pushing Elizabeth to date/ be serious about Brandon Hannah when she was not interested in him at all.

I always thought it odd Gwod named her children Michael and Michelle anyway -- 2 versions of the same name.

Don't get me started on the all the G-named grandchildren. Talk about Gwod worship.

There were twins in my class named Michael and Michelle. Born in the early 80s like the Shamblin kids. I bet it was a popular combo. Like Jessica and Jennifer. 

[cookingbutterchicken]

I thought Elizabeth changed her name because Elizabeth is her sinless name. Not sure!

Edited February 9 by cookingbutterchicken

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Sinless name?

[JermajestyDuggar]

What I’ve noticed from some cult leaders is that they actually start out pretty “normal.” Not all! There are some cult leaders that start out nuts and just get worse. But Jim Jones comes to mind. When he started his church, he was fighting against segregation and fighting for equal rights. Interracial couples were welcomed with open arms in his church when other churches looked down on those couples. But over time, it all went to Jim Joneses head. He started to think he was this benevolent leader who knew what was best for everyone. And we all know how that ended. You can also say the same for the leader of Synanon. He started out with a good idea to help addicts and he did help people in the beginning. But like Jim Jones, it all went to his head and he decided to completely control everyone as the years went on. 
 

I think it’s possible Gwen started out in the early 90s with good intentions. But it all went to her head. This is a great reason why one single person can never rule and entire group of people. This is why dictatorship doesn’t work. Nor absolute monarchies. An absolute ruler needs to be challenged. They need to hear oppositions. They need to hear others’ opinions. They need to understand that they aren’t always right and they don’t always know what’s best.

[quiversR4hunting]

I watched it a couple days ago, I'm glad you all warned me the timeline was off so then I didn't focus on that. 

It's a dramatization of Gwen but I think they did a good job of hitting most of the high points. I wish they would have showed all thr wedding volunteers and nobody eating extravagant wedding food to bring home the extravagance for show. 

[Willow]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:42 PM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I always thought that Elizabeth's name change was because Michael and Elle and Michelle was too rhyming. ...

I always thought it odd Gwod named her children Michael and Michelle anyway -- 2 versions of the same name.

GS was into M names anyway. Her baby who died was Matthew. 

GS was into changing peoples names whenever she could.

Like Tedd and Candace Anger. Their name used to be pronounced like the emotion. Not only can you here that on early audio but Tedd's Dad literally pronounces it that way today. But GS didn't like that, so she came up with some french-fried name that is suposed to evoke angels because "ange" is "angel" in French. 

There was a RF couple with the last name Heck a long time ago.  GS must have hated that because they changed it to Maxwell (the wife's maiden name). They left a long time ago. Who knows if they went back to their original name or not. 

There was a whole thing about the Day family being like a dynasty and one of their SILs had a mom who was sorta problematic (read: regained a ton of weight), so after like a year of using his last name, the daughter reverted back to Day and the SIL took that name too. It was hilarious when young married miss said her last name wrong ("Day" instead of her husband's name) in one of the onstage lineups and the SIL just glared at her, like, did you forget that you're married to me???

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I am watching the Lifetime movie now. I agree the accent isn't twangy enough. I was surprised at the beginning how many "Catholic" style crucifixes and statues the movie showed, given that Gwen never had any connection to the Catholic church. 

[WeirdHarold]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:23 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

I am watching the Lifetime movie now. I agree the accent isn't twangy enough. I was surprised at the beginning how many "Catholic" style crucifixes and statues the movie showed, given that Gwen never had any connection to the Catholic church. 

Hollywood loves Catholic churches.  I've noticed most church weddings on TV are in Catholic looking churches.

[Pecansforeveryone]

Has there been a discussion or disclosure if Gwen and Joe had a pre-nup? She was battier than we think if she didn't especially in light of her costly divorce. 

[Hane]

2 hours ago, WeirdHarold said:

Hollywood loves Catholic churches.  I've noticed most church weddings on TV are in Catholic looking churches.

Or Episcopalian or Congregational ones—the kind that adhere to a “high church” liturgy. I’m  surprised, because there are so many “simple meetinghouse”-style churches in this country.

[treemom]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:04 PM, 7Freedom said:

I've been following this thread for years (thank you!). For nearly 2 decades I've wondered why Gwen became a Trinity denier. How can you call yourself a Christian and ignore the Gospel????? Ignore the New Testiment??? Does anyone know if the explanation portrayed is true or is it a Hollywood exaggeration? With the exception of Josh's character substitution and time line issues, I found everything to be truthful in nature. If this is true, all of her followers should be shaken to their core! Her denial was for financial and power gain only!!!! I'm not surprised, I've alway thought most/all of what she did was for money and power but to see this...it should be huge for Christians!

I am always so amused that people think 1. All Christian faiths believe in the trinity and 2. That that is the most shocking thing about a literal anoerexia cult. 

[7Freedom]

6 hours ago, treemom said:

I am always so amused that people think 1. All Christian faiths believe in the trinity and 2. That that is the most shocking thing about a literal anoerexia cult. 

Oh, sorry...I didn't mean for my comment to come off that way. Total anorexia cult. So much of that was glossed over in the movie...three bite bs and such. The docuseries covered the anorexia side of things much better. I personally remember churches booting RF out after the Trinity denial but not understanding how or why Her Highness came to the conclusion the Trinity did not exist. I was further blown away that more of her parishioners stayed and agreed with her...but when you mix starvation and mind control...anything is possible!

[throwaway9988]

I had no idea that catholic and protestant crucifixes are different! The church used in this movie was fairly quaint. But in terms of other movies, I do think some Catholic churches look really dramatic and occult, which probably leads to them being featured in films more often.  I mean those stone cathedrals in LA/NYC/Europe have been in like dozens and dozens of movies.