Remnant Fellowship 23: Elizabeth's Phoning It & Michael Did a Runner. Literally.

[throwaway9988]

P.S. Am I misremembering or did newschannel5 tease that Michael had new stuff to expose about the murder of Josef Smith? I’m really hoping Michael confirms the previous speculation that Gwen fully understood that Joseph and Sonya Smith abused and neglected Josef until he died, but that Gwen knowingly lied to the press and to the Remnant members because she always said it is Biblically justified if one lies to protect God’s church/for the sake of Jerusalem. Or like Michael said in one of the earlier segments, it’s okay to lie for the sake of Gwen. 

[freefromthin]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/secrets-of-remnant-fellowship-im-going-to-say-this-and-the-people-of-remnant-are-not-going-to-like-this?utm_source=website&utm_medium=local-promo-right-rail&utm_campaign=gwen

The vide embedded in the article does state that they will be talking about the death of  young Joseph today at 6.

[throwaway9988]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/take-the-damn-filter-off-former-remnant-leader-says-church-needs-to-admit-role-in-childs-death
 

Here it is. This one is especially hard-hitting. 

[freefromthin]

5 minutes ago, throwaway9988 said:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/take-the-damn-filter-off-former-remnant-leader-says-church-needs-to-admit-role-in-childs-death
 

Here it is. This one is especially hard-hitting. 

I was JUST about to post that link. Thanks for the update.

[treemom]

Wow.  That is hands down the most important segment yet.  
 

I wonder what is really happening in the church.  

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Yes wow  - very hard hitting.

I wonder why Michael decided to go public now? It's time now Gwen has been gone for 3 years?  Some of the RF leadership is gone/ stepped away?  He's at a place in his life where he feels he can tell what he knows? He doesn't care if RF hits back at him because he's secure in his life?

Some/ all of the above?

I sincerely hope he has a close relationship with his children. They are so mired in RF it's all they know. They might be encouraged to shun him as RFers do to people who leave. 

Edited to Add --To FJers who are former RFers and knew Michael -- after leaving RF and getting himself together did Michael reach out to any of you that he knew (or any former RFers you know)?

Or has he distanced himself from anyone/ anything that was associated with/ part of RF?

Edited February 20 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[treemom]

It was mentioned at the end he has contact with former members and Phil encouraged other former members to reach out to him. 
 

somewhere in all these threads myself and some others had a back and forth with @Pathologic Antagonist who was in the docuseries. They refused to see Michael and Elizabeth and victims and victimizers. I questioned what he would do if Michael ever reached out. While I think PA’s religious viewpoints are skewed and he doesn’t seem to understand he also supports oppressive religions, I do think he did good work and saved lives by helping people get out. I hope if Michael reached out to him that I was wrong and PA helped Michael and they can work together. 
 

Michael did bad things. But he is also being a loud voice exposing the cult of his mother and now sister. He could both be the cause of pain in the past and a powerful voice to prevent pain in the future. It takes a lot to be that sort of person. I hope he had the support and love he needs. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, treemom said:

Michael did bad things. But he is also being a loud voice exposing the cult of his mother and now sister.

He is speaking out, which is a big and risky thing for anyone in a cult. I hope that RF members are watching his interviews. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Michael and Elizabeth remind me of royalty. They were born to a queen of a cult. Their futures were planned by their mother and both seemed to chafe at it. Michael much more so than Elizabeth. Michael was always the black sheep. He was always getting in trouble with his mother. Now that she’s dead he’s free to do as he pleases. But I’m sure his mother still lives in his head. I’m sure he can imagine what his mother would say about this interview. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

There's an interesting new FJ member ( @Therapy Outside the Box)  who posted this status update:

Spoiler

(Sorry for the screenshot, but I'm not sure how to link to a status update.)

ETA -- I never thought of Natasha Pavlovich as a former RF member. I thought she was only linked to RF by being Joe Lara's ex.

Edited February 20 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
Eta

[Therapy Outside the Box]

Hello,

I'm brand new to this forum. It was suggested to me by outspoken Remnant Fellowship critic (Natasha Pavlovich) that I join and put out here what I do. She also warned me that no one on here trusts, or trusts easily, and that I'd likely be assumed to be a Remnant plant or spy until vetted and verified as not that. Fair enough. 

In short, and in truth, I'm a psychotherapist with 25 yrs experience in Franklin TN (less than three miles from RF incidentally) with a special interest in working with people formerly associated with cults, cult-like or any and all high control institutions.

Among other things, I enjoy working with those desiring not only deconstruct, recover and learn to thrive post-indoctrination, but wanting to recapture/cultivate an authentic sense of theology without walls, or spirituality with borders. 

To date, I've worked with former Amish, Mennonite, LDS/FLDS, FOG, and a those representing a whole slew of evangelical, fire and brimstone fear/shame/guilt-inducing institutions. I'm especially interested in working with former Remnant Fellowship and Scientology members. I view RF as basically Scientology without the budget. 

I'll leave it there. Much more can be gleaned about me through my website: therapyoutsidethebox.com or IG: @ therapyoutsidethebox

 

Peace,

 

Chris Hancock, LCSW

Franklin, TN

Edited February 20 by Therapy Outside the Box

[freefromthin]

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/i-want-to-make-history-gwen-shamblins-daughter-says-she-is-ready-to-take-mothers-church-to-next-level

Elizabeth wants to make history. There's an audio clip in this article.

Edited to add that there are multiple audio clips. According to Elizabeth, her mother was misunderstood and mocked just like Dolly Parton.

Edited February 22 by freefromthin

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Dolly Parton is not misunderstood and mocked.  Dolly is loved, admired, and respected because she's a great artist and gives back so so so much. 

Edited to add:  That photo of Elizabeth with the article is downright scary.  And you can definitely see the cheek fillers and Botox.

Edited February 23 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Dolly Parton is not misunderstood and mocked.  Dolly is loved, admired, and respected because she's a great artist and gives back so so so much. 

Edited to add:  That photo of Elizabeth with the article is downright scary.  And you can definitely see the cheek fillers and Botox.

Oh you mean this picture? She’s developing her own “unique” look like Gwen. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Yes -- that picture!  

Elizabeth's whole 'moving on up in Heaven, leveling upwards with Gwen and the greats up there' screed sounds positively cray cray to me.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Yes -- that picture!  

Elizabeth's whole 'moving on up in Heaven, leveling upwards with Gwen and the greats up there' screed sounds positively cray cray to me.

I hope that someone is looking out for her children because it doesn't sound like she is capable of doing so:

Quote

My precious children consist of Grace, Gweneth, Gloria, and Charles Grantham. I was married to their father, Brandon Hannah, an incredibly righteous man, from 2003 until his death in 2021. My family loves God, and my children love to get on their knees and pray every morning and night alongside me. All I strive for is to do the will of God and pass that down to my children… for nothing else has blessed us more than experiencing the blessings that come from obedience to God! [Emphasis added]

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m sure Grace will be married soon enough. 

[AmazonGrace]

16 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh you mean this picture? She’s developing her own “unique” look like Gwen. 

I think she's sort of starting to look like the opposite of Gwen somehow.  Like if you subtract one style from another you get an average person.Huge fluffy hair all over the place vs. a sleek, straight, flat and controlled look.  Dark eye make up and lighter lipstick vs. lighter eye make-up and darker lipstick.

The Elizabeth quotes sound very cult leader to me.  Like it's a competition to get a bigger podium in heaven.

Just can't understand why she phones in and doesn't bask in the applause of the adoring multitudes. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I think she's sort of starting to look like the opposite of Gwen somehow.  Like if you subtract one style from another you get an average person.Huge fluffy hair all over the place vs. a sleek, straight, flat and controlled look.  Dark eye make up and lighter lipstick vs. lighter eye make-up and darker lipstick.

The Elizabeth quotes sound very cult leader to me.  Like it's a competition to get a bigger podium in heaven.

Just can't understand why she phones in and doesn't bask in the applause of the adoring multitudes. 

I think she has major stage fright. She’s never looked comfortable speaking in front of big crowds. 

[quiversR4hunting]

Im so glad you all kept posting the links. I wish Micheal well and hope he gets his kids at least 50% of the time. 

I really don't get how the church is staying open. An absent leader and the crap she said on the one recording-wow!

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Im so glad you all kept posting the links. I wish Micheal well and hope he gets his kids at least 50% of the time. 

I really don't get how the church is staying open. An absent leader and the crap she said on the one recording-wow!

From my understanding, everyone else did the work. As long as the cult has plenty of people still willing to do a shit ton of work for free, it will keep going. Plus they have a ridiculous amount of leaders. So there are plenty of people to make demands and give directions. The biggest problems will come from infighting. People arguing over what’s best for the church based on what they think Gwen would have said when she was alive. 

[SerenitybyJan]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think she has major stage fright. She’s never looked comfortable speaking in front of big crowds. 

I think she's in a real mental health crisis. Reportedly she lost a child before the plane crash, and that she wasn't really allowed to mourn the death. That, coupled with the loss of her mother and husband, then the death of her father, that's a lot to deal with for any person, never mind someone who is supposed to be leading a cult (ahem, church). She may just be paralyzed with fear, anxiety, OCD, depression, you name it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

44 minutes ago, SerenitybyJan said:

I think she's in a real mental health crisis. Reportedly she lost a child before the plane crash, and that she wasn't really allowed to mourn the death. That, coupled with the loss of her mother and husband, then the death of her father, that's a lot to deal with for any person, never mind someone who is supposed to be leading a cult (ahem, church). She may just be paralyzed with fear, anxiety, OCD, depression, you name it. 

Oh I agree she’s lost a lot of loved ones but I think she had stage fright even before the plane crash. She just isn’t like Gwen who loves the spotlight. She never has been. Even if there wasn’t a plane crash and she lost Gwen from cancer 10 years from now, I think she wouldn’t be on the stage much.
 

Just to add, I believe Henley was born before Charles Grantham. My guess is that he would be around 10 or 11 now if he hadn’t died from SIDS. And yes, I believe it was reported that no one talked about Henley’s death and it was almost ignored in church. 

[RFsurvivor]

16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh I agree she’s lost a lot of loved ones but I think she had stage fright even before the plane crash. She just isn’t like Gwen who loves the spotlight. She never has been. Even if there wasn’t a plane crash and she lost Gwen from cancer 10 years from now, I think she wouldn’t be on the stage much.
 

Just to add, I believe Henley was born before Charles Grantham. My guess is that he would be around 10 or 11 now if he hadn’t died from SIDS. And yes, I believe it was reported that no one talked about Henley’s death and it was almost ignored in church. 

When I was a member of Elizabeth spoke in a full church service it was decent but mostly just praises of her mother. However, she would occasionally speak to the youth group and she would do fine. 
 

As for Henley’s death, it wasn’t discussed openly. Only in hushed conversations. The general church body were left relatively in the dark from what I recall. 

Edited February 24 by RFsurvivor
Spelling

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think if you look way back at the first RF thread, you’ll see speculation that Elizabeth wouldn’t be able to take over and be a leader like her mother. This was before the car crash. We were speculating that Elizabeth would have a very hard time filling her mother’s shoes when she died. She’s just always been so different from her mother when it comes to stage personality.