Remnant Fellowship 23: Elizabeth's Phoning It & Michael Did a Runner. Literally.

[nelliebelle1197]

Amazingly, nothing is happening in RF. Like nothing. Except stupid Dan Gryder is making stuff up again.

 

 

[freefromthin]

Yep. Everything is pretty quiet right now, especially in light of the recent documentary. I expected there to be more fallout.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I imagine they are trying to keep things quiet. 

[freefromthin]

43 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I imagine they are trying to keep things quiet. 

Makes sense.

[SilverBeach]

They are probably trying to keep the businesses afloat. It's a shitshow, I cannot imagine anyone is joining, especially after Michael ran and Elizabeth has shown she is nobody's cult leader. I hope Tarzan's daughter is doing well though, shitty parent that he was, it's still traumatic to lose one so violently.

[Hane]

48 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

They are probably trying to keep the businesses afloat. It's a shitshow, I cannot imagine anyone is joining, especially after Michael ran and Elizabeth has shown she is nobody's cult leader. I hope Tarzan's daughter is doing well though, shitty parent that he was, it's still traumatic to lose one so violently.

@SilverBeach, good to see you!

[SilverBeach]

Thank you Hane, good to see you also! I do think of some FJers quite fondly, and you're one of them!

[WeirdHarold]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:22 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

Amazingly, nothing is happening in RF. Like nothing. Except stupid Dan Gryder is making stuff up again.

Watching Gryder's edited, revamped and updated video that YouTube had removed for privacy concerns.  Yeah, he hasn't changed his foul play theory.

[freefromthin]

I listened to Elizabeth's phone call after the concert today. I didn't listen to the concert, but during the phone call she expressed excitement about how it was so great that the youth were there serving God instead of being out tanning or whatever today's youth are doing. She inserted the usual commentary about how awesome and loving everyone is there and how it's OK to have questions and concerns about leadership if you are not gossiping. She said that she felt confident that they (Remnant) were going  to be able to go on. There was lots of cheering and her speech got a standing ovation. Pretty much the same old same old.

[treemom]

Is there any insight into the business side of Gwen’s cults?  How is The Weigh Down doing?  

[freefromthin]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:00 PM, treemom said:

Is there any insight into the business side of Gwen’s cults?  How is The Weigh Down doing?  

I'm not aware of any changes. I DO notice that Elizabeth doesn't seem to mention Weigh Down as much as Gwen did. It will be interesting to see what they do with that going forward, since Gwen was TRULY the FACE of Weigh Down. In fact, she loved to use her own thinness as PROOF that her program WORKED. I don't think Elizabeth would be able to pull that off, because while Gwen was certainly VERY thin, Elizabeth looks gaunt and frail. 

[MomJeans]

Sometimes I wonder if Elizabeth just needs someone she trusts to tell her "hey, you don't have to be a cult leader.  You can just walk away."  But I imagine that the forces that keep people in cults apply just as much to leadership.  She has no friends and no identity outside Remnant. Her kids have been groomed (by both Gwen and Elizabeth) to think this is the one true path, and to leave would mean damnation. And I also imagine that the rest of leadership is love bombing her to keep up her phone calls, but to also stay out of their way. 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I also have to wonder if Elizabeth has to make her mother and husband's deaths mean something. She is coping with a double loss. If she leaves Remnant does that mean her loved ones died for a lie, to go further that there was no purpose to their deaths, possibly no after life to see them in? 

[freefromthin]

48 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I also have to wonder if Elizabeth has to make her mother and husband's deaths mean something. She is coping with a double loss. If she leaves Remnant does that mean her loved ones died for a lie, to go further that there was no purpose to their deaths, possibly no after life to see them in? 

I can TOTALLY see this! She has been taught that pretty much everything that happens to people happens because God is either rewarding them or punishing them. A while back, their church steeple was struck by lightning and she said in a subsequent speech that she fell to her knees and asked God if someone had done something wrong. Gwen had been known to rebuke the entire church for some supposed sin that was going on that was causing X, Y, or Z issue. IIRC, she also used the weather as proof of God's favor or wrath. 

Elizabeth has stated in multiple speeches that "the 7" had to die so that there could be a double portion of God's spirit poured out on Remnant Fellowship. In one of her talks, she even said that God positioned His throne over Remnant, potentially at the time of their death. She has also stated multiple times that she has a double anointing. Apparently her mother had given her a piece of art that depicted someone blowing two horns, symbolizing her double anointing. She has definitely been groomed for many years to take over for Gwen and from her talks it seems like she was reminded of that quite often.

Since Gwen's death, SEVERAL members have stated that Elizabeth is "just like her mom", or that having her speak to them was kind of like having Gwen speak to them. Elizabeth has stated multiple times that she is intent on carrying forward her mother's vision. She has also told the congregation (on more than one occasion) that she is busy behind the scenes making sure that the church is being taken care of and stronger than ever before. She has yet to make an in-person appearance at a church service since the (I think) couple of times that she was on stage shortly after her mother's death.

Sounds like the weight of the future of RF is solidly on Elizabeth's shoulders. I can't imagine being shouldered with such a burden while also dealing with the loss of my husband, mother, and several of my closest friends. I'm not sure about her relationship with Joe, but I imagine that his death struck a blow to her as well.

[freefromthin]

3 hours ago, MomJeans said:

Sometimes I wonder if Elizabeth just needs someone she trusts to tell her "hey, you don't have to be a cult leader.  You can just walk away."  But I imagine that the forces that keep people in cults apply just as much to leadership.  She has no friends and no identity outside Remnant. Her kids have been groomed (by both Gwen and Elizabeth) to think this is the one true path, and to leave would mean damnation. And I also imagine that the rest of leadership is love bombing her to keep up her phone calls, but to also stay out of their way. 

 

I've wondered about this. Since the death of "the 7", there has been SEVERAL services where people who are in leadership have given testimonies with quavering voices stating that they are "hear to stay" and that they don't know where they'd be without "this place". They NEED RF to continue in SOME fashion, because THEY don't know what THEY'D do, either. They seem fearful that RF will not be able to continue, while simultaneously reassuring the masses that Remnant is stronger than ever and that they support Elizabeth 100 percent. I can only imagine the talk behind the scenes given Elizabeth's absence. It doesn't help that Michael cut and run after having stated that he was there for the long haul as well. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by freefromthin

[WeirdHarold]

38 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

It doesn't help that Michael cut and run after having stated that he was there for the long haul as well. 

Just thinking about Michael.  In the world of RF, he could probably appear back on the scene and everyone would pretend it's all good and he didn't really leave RF.

[freefromthin]

2 minutes ago, WeirdHarold said:

Just thinking about Michael.  In the world of RF, he could probably appear back on the scene and everyone would pretend it's all good and he didn't really leave RF.

I totally agree. In the back of my mind, I've been wondering whether or not that MIGHT happen.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think Michael is gone for good. I doubt he will ever come back now that he’s divorced and his mom is dead. He will be like his dad. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I agree. If Michael came back he wouldn't be in charge, he's be under Elizabeth's authority or worse someone like Patrick Stites. He's out  He's free. He can have his own life. A life he chooses. Doing what he wants.

Have there been any Michael sightings around Nashville/ Brentwood? My theory is that he lost the weight after he left, much as his dad did after the divorce from Gwen.

[JermajestyDuggar]

What I hope for Michael is that he just feels comfortable in his body. I’m not a person who thinks there’s something wrong with him in a bigger body. But he grew up hearing how it’s a sin to be in a bigger body. I hope one day he can feel comfortable in himself but I know that will likely take therapy and I just can’t see him going to therapy. 

[Willow]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hope one day he can feel comfortable in himself but I know that will likely take therapy and I just can’t see him going to therapy. 

I hope so too. Michael always looked so introverted and depressed and lonely and sad. Even when performing and even when sitting with the guys at the 'booze table' at events, like always out of place, even though any one would have done anything for him. He has a good memory though. He recognizes people even when he didn't see them for over a year. He is very smart. I hope he will feel free and will find a way to work through his anger and depression. 

On 6/29/2022 at 11:21 AM, freefromthin said:

Yep. Everything is pretty quiet right now, especially in light of the recent documentary. I expected there to be more fallout.

I had hoped there would be more fallout. But I watched the whole thing and now I'm curious whether any one else found the documentary slow? Easy to say, I know, since I am not a film maker, but I thought it could have been punchier. For all the DRAMA around Delaney's mother's feelings, her parents didn't really say what the problems were that Delaney was in RF. Your teen goes to church all the time and is not overeating? Is that the problem? Yeah, it was stupid of whoever to give D a burner phone when her parents objected to D being at RF, but why were her parents objecting to it in teh first place? Not saying that there weren't reasons (or aren't reasons for staying away from RF), but I don't remember them saying what they were.  

[nokidsmom]

16 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think Michael is gone for good. I doubt he will ever come back now that he’s divorced and his mom is dead. He will be like his dad. 

This reminds me of when the longtime pastor of my parents' church died, some of his surviving family completely changed their lives afterward, including divorce and moving out of the country.   My folks were a bit appalled at the changes and even back then I couldn't help that now that pastor dad was gone perhaps they felt free to live their lives as they wished and no longer had to deal with the expectations that come with being a pastor's kid.  I see the same with Michael.

I agree that he's gone.   Perhaps his dad is able to give him needed support having been in similar shoes. 

 

[luv2laugh]

Can someone tell me what thread to catch up on? Didn’t know Michael ran and divorced 

[Willow]

6 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Can someone tell me what thread to catch up on? Didn’t know Michael ran and divorced 

See RF 22 post, page 18 -- I think it's a May 4 post. The poster put an image of the divorce court entry paperwork, whatever ya call it. And Michael is nowhere to be found on the RF site --- not a leader anymore (https://www.remnantfellowship.org/about-remnant-fellowship/leadership-team/). 

[cacophony_grey]

On 7/6/2022 at 2:30 PM, Willow said:

For all the DRAMA around Delaney's mother's feelings, her parents didn't really say what the problems were that Delaney was in RF. Your teen goes to church all the time and is not overeating? Is that the problem? Yeah, it was stupid of whoever to give D a burner phone when her parents objected to D being at RF, but why were her parents objecting to it in teh first place? Not saying that there weren't reasons (or aren't reasons for staying away from RF), but I don't remember them saying what they were.  

Yes, I thought the same. Having followed this situation for a long time, I felt familiar with the objections Delaney's parents had, but if I had watched that first episode without knowing anything, I might have thought her parents were the unreasonable/controlling ones, who didn't want their daughter to have religious beliefs different from their own.