Josh and Anna 53: 151 Month Sentence

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Imo, the Duggar brand is done. 
 

I don’t know a lot about the Swansons, but I saw a video of Lauren and Siah’s baby reveal on the lawn of a rather very nice house. I think there was even a little glimpse of the inside at a tea party there. I could be wrong but I thought it was Lauren’s parents’ home. If it is their house, it’s a big contrast to the trailer like looking house the Caldwells lived in at one time. A quick google shows Lauren’s dad is the president of a Lawn and Design company as well as Swanson Construction. I can’t say how updated that is or how lucrative.

Swanson Construction is booming. Dwain has multiple LLCs for properties in the same development where Jason Duggar has set up shop. I think it's called Bella Vista. 

Speaking of LLCs, Anna recently added LaCount Reber as an agent on one of her property LLCs. I have no clue why she would do this. Her other LLCs have Travis Story listed as an agent. 

eta I agree that the Duggar Brand is dead. Boob's demeanor as he stomped out of the courthouse made it clear that he finally realized it himself.

Edited May 30, 2022 by marmalade

[ElizaB]

7 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I had a thought last night ( insomnia), how come last week at sentencing ( and maybe during the trial too) David Waller appeared to be JB’s support system, file carrier and most recently driver. JB has a plethora of adult sons and were any of them called upon? Did they refuse? For all the shit they’ve coerced their daughters into doing from giving blood for Josie, to mothering and the Megyn Kelly interview (Jessa and Jill), I’m surprised JB didn’t force one of his sons to be a physical support- ALL those people and he was a lone man on sentencing day. Sort of shows you what they all must think of him.

Or maybe this shows how much control he does have over them. I think anyone who was at the trial was there against his wishes. I think JB wants the rest of the family at home with their ears plugged having no idea what is happening with Josh. 

[BadMurphy]

Maybe he told them not to come—he knows they’re all boneheads that can’t behave themselves in court like Justin.

And/or he doesn’t want his remaining sons to be seen there and tainted by this/associated with it

Edited May 30, 2022 by BadMurphy

[AussieKrissy]

On 5/29/2022 at 4:37 AM, Zebedee said:

Interesting comment from one of Denise Wilson's sons in law, alleging Anna pressured her to write her character witness letter.
 

now that is a statement!!!!

Edited May 31, 2022 by AussieKrissy
dam just read that this guy is an utter arse! now I wish this statement was from someone who was not an utter arse!

[Snarkasarus Rex]

1 hour ago, marmalade said:

Swanson Construction is booming. Dwain has multiple LLCs for properties in the same development where Jason Duggar has set up shop. I think it's called Bella Vista. 

Speaking of LLCs, Anna recently added LaCount Reber as an agent on one of her property LLCs. I have no clue why she would do this. Her other LLCs have Travis Story listed as an agent. 

eta I agree that the Duggar Brand is dead. Boob's demeanor as he stomped out of the courthouse made it clear that he finally realized it himself.

I think the whole LLC game is how Boob pays his kids and other people, and maybe Anna is now doing the same. LaCount and Maria Reber also have their own business now, interestingly incorporated shortly after they starting babysitting Pest. 

Jackson has his own business as well, incorporated in Feb.

I would assume this is all legal, but I do find it interesting to follow.  

[Cam]

3 hours ago, socalrules said:

I agree the Duggar brand is over and I don’t even see any of the kids being able to revive it with their own families. We at FJ are fascinated by the Duggar crazy because we have invested years in following the train wreck but few people outside of our group actually care about the Duggars. The only thing most people know about them of that one of the kids is going to prison for his horrible actions. The Duggars found their niche at a time where reality TV was in its infancy and it was interesting to watch people with a million kids live completely differently than the majority of us. It was great escapism but now we know what we were watching was a complete lie and that abuse/cruelty was covered up all for the sake of making money. There is no brand to continue because it was all a lie.
 

There is nothing the Duggar kids have to offer a TV show either. None of them are particularly interesting or witty or doing anything that would justify a TV show. Few would identify with them even as married adults as they still live lives so vastly different than most people but now it just comes off as kind of sad. At some point, even their Instagram or twitter endorsements will dry up. They hold abhorrent views that major products or businesses will not want to be associated with for fear of backlash. I would like to see where they are in 5 years when the Duggar name is just a distant memory. 

I agree with all of this. The Duggars tv show was a niche in time and now that time has passed. The Duggars can’t hide behind a smokescreen any more.

Josh took everyone down with him. I did a little more looking into the Swansons. They may have several homes and it’d be no surprise that these days their construction business is booming. The way it looks to me is that they are possibly the most wealthy family one of the Duggar kids married into. They lived in Georgia but at some point, not all that long before Siah and Lauren’s engagement, they moved to NWA. Were there some business deals/arrangements going on between JB and Dwain (Lauren’s dad) along with their kids marrying each other?

Lauren and Siah got married in 2018. Josh gets arrested the following year. If there were business deals between the two families, how is the fall out from Josh’s conviction and prison time affecting the relationship? 

2 hours ago, marmalade said:

 I agree that the Duggar Brand is dead. Boob's demeanor as he stomped out of the courthouse made it clear that he finally realized it himself.

That walk spoke volumes.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Cam

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, Bethy said:

I don't understand how anybody else could be moving stuff INTO Anna's name in hopes of not being called upon to pay fines or other expenses. I'd think if anybody could be called on to pay Josh's fines, it would be Anna herself.  And worse things may be coming for her.

Some years back there was a semi-local teacher who was arrested for having sex with a student. He ultimately pled guilty and served time, now he's a registered sex offender, the whole nine. Meanwhile the student in question sued him in civil court and got a settlement of like eight million dollars. It would be an impossible sum for this teacher to have paid even if he continued to have teacher income and worked a full career - which, obviously, he cannot do from the sex offender registry. I don't know how all of this works. Does this ex-teacher now have a lien on all of his paychecks for life? If his wife had stayed with him (I think I heard the marriage ended) then would she have been on the hook for his multi-million-dollar debt? To bring it back to the case at hand, what if it becomes possible for an identifiable victim from the CSAM Josh downloaded to sue - will Anna be on the hook to pay since she stayed married to him?

All this to say...from where I sit it looks like putting anything financial in Anna's name right now is a big risk.

Hmm. Interesting thoughts. The finances of all the "missionary" fundies we follow all seem to be iffy at best.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I think there could be a market for Duggar Deconstruction, where we follow the kids to therapy and see them reclaiming their lives after being raised in a cult. Things like drinking wine, dancing, making life choices, going to college, wearing pants. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Mrs Ms]

I have been thinking along a similar line as @SassyPants since the trial. Everyone asking why Michelle wasn’t there for Josh/Anna/Joy/herself etc had me wondering why she wasn’t there for JB! If one of my kids was being jailed for a horrific crime and I was in court, I would want my spouse/partner/co-parent there as emotional support for me. To deal with it together.
Seeing him stalk out of court with David Waller was just another layer of weird.

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Same.

I am all about manners and kindness but anyone who has spent time in conservative religious circles also knows how phrases such as "speak in love" and gentleness and kindness are used to shut people up, especially if you are young or female or not in a position of power. 

Meanwhile Jesus was out there calling names and flipping tables.

I am a kind and empathetic person. But I am not interested in being kind when the situation calls for truth and table flipping.

I agree.  You can be empathetic and still stand up for yourself and tell the truth as you see it.  Especially when raising children, you do them no favors by not letting them know the truth when they need it.  So what appears to be kindness sometimes really isn’t.

You are right that “be nice,” or “be kind” are often used to put people in a subordinate position.   It is just a form of manipulation.  

[Chewing Gum]

5 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think there could be a market for Duggar Deconstruction, where we follow the kids to therapy and see them reclaiming their lives after being raised in a cult. Things like drinking wine, dancing, making life choices, going to college, wearing pants. 

Sort of like that amish show where they get to experience the outside world before chosing to stay or leave. 
I’d watch that

[Sops2]

What I'm interested in  is just when will Anna empty all of Josh's clothes out of their bedroom wardrobe and drawers.

Will it sink in then just how long 12 years is and how he won't be there to wear them?

Shoes, socks, pjs,  underwear the whole lot- will she clear them all out ? Even his toothbrush in the bathroom? Or will they all just stay there mouldering in the warehome's cupboards.

[imokit]

3 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

What I'm interested in  is just when will Anna empty all of Josh's clothes out of their bedroom wardrobe and drawers.

Will it sink in then just how long 12 years is and how he won't be there to wear them?

Shoes, socks, pjs,  underwear the whole lot- will she clear them all out ? Even his toothbrush in the bathroom? Or will they all just stay there mouldering in the warehome's cupboards.

They'll moldour, except she'll make them get washed regularly by Mack now (and later the other girls) and daddy's clothes will be washed as big family thing, so that he has clean clothes for when he gets back.  The house will always be ready for him, and she'll use him against the kids.  "What if daddy saw this?  If Daddy walks in and see's the mess?  Daddy will be sad if he finds out you weren't obeying?"

😥

[quiversR4hunting]

5 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

I have been thinking along a similar line as @SassyPants since the trial. Everyone asking why Michelle wasn’t there for Josh/Anna/Joy/herself etc had me wondering why she wasn’t there for JB! If one of my kids was being jailed for a horrific crime and I was in court, I would want my spouse/partner/co-parent there as emotional support for me. To deal with it together.
Seeing him stalk out of court with David Waller was just another layer of weird.

I think she wasn't there because she is a woman. This trial is for men folk and much too horrible of a subject for a delicate woman. Might need the smelling salts if she attends! 🙄

[Cam]

Maybe Meech has bladder control issues and couldn’t sit in a courtroom for that long. I also have my own theory that she had a hysterectomy around the time of the trial based on zero facts, just my own hunch since she wasn’t seen anywhere. But I agree, there’s an oddity about it being only JB who attended. Where’s the united front? It could be that he was afraid she’d make a spectacle of herself crying, as someone on here mentioned. The only time he seems to want to appear in public with her is to show he can bend down and kiss her whenever he wants, take center stage and make sex jokes about having kids. For him to be concerned about her emotional well-being and have to tend to her during the trial and sentencing is way beyond his wheelhouse. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Cam

[noni alabaster]

On 5/29/2022 at 5:33 AM, Cam said:

I’m hearing moms teach it to daughters and sons and baby deer, but not hearing that it’s something dads teach.

I loved Steel Magnolias which surprised me as it’s generally not my type of movie. Fabulous ensemble, writing and acting. Love the “ …come sit by me” line. Just in the past few years did I learn the movie was based on a true story which blew me away. 

Interesting tidbit about a cast member: About 25 years ago, my late husband and I partook of some pretty heavy party favors with the young man who played Shelby's little towheaded baby in that movie! This was in North Texas and he looked very much the same. It was strange watching him partake.

[allyisyourpally5]

I have two theories on Michelle’s absence and I don’t know which one to go with.

First theory - she simply didn’t believe it, believed that God will make sure it’s all swept under the rug, their family Godliness would show itself to the world. She didn’t need to hear the accusations planted by the Devil because that’s all they were. God will make sure he’s saved from this worldly trial. Solid genuine denial and arrogance rolled into one.

Second Theory - she wasn’t allowed to go. She’s been fed a much toned down version of court room events from Jim Bob who assured her all was fine. Let’s face it, this was a man who tried to tell a judge what he should allow in a court room. JB clearly did not believe things would get this far, because they’re the Duggars and JB knows better than anybody and has a hotline to God, and Michelle is the obedient wife who has taken her husband's word as gospel.

Additional theory - she didn’t go because she didn’t want to risk the young ones goggling or tracking the trial live somehow. We know what Josh can do with a computer, who’s to say the younger haven’t found ways to hide activity?

 

 

[Mama Mia]

4 hours ago, Cam said:

Maybe Meech has bladder control issues and couldn’t sit in a courtroom for that long. I also have my own theory that she had a hysterectomy around the time of the trial based on zero facts, just my own hunch since she wasn’t seen anywhere. But I agree, there’s an oddity about it being only JB who attended. Where’s the united front? It could be that he was afraid she’d make a spectacle of herself crying, as someone on here mentioned. The only time he seems to want to appear in public with her is to show he can bend down and kiss her whenever he wants, take center stage and make sex jokes about having kids. For him to be concerned about her emotional well-being and have to tend to her during the trial and sentencing is way beyond his wheelhouse. 

I was also thinking something physical could be part of the reason she’s been absent. If she has to get up frequently to use the bathroom, can you imagine the speculation as to why she leaves, and the timing? But for her, I think the more likely reason is Josh asked her not to attend because he didn’t want his mom to hear it, and didn’t want to see her reaction. And being a mom, she figured she’d break down and sob and it would make it worse. Even being in a cult, and him being an evil pedo, and I’m sure a million resentments and mistakes — they still had a mother/child bond. 

[waltraute]

4 hours ago, Cam said:

For him to be concerned about her emotional well-being and have to tend to her during the trial and sentencing is way beyond his wheelhouse. 

I think that would be true for the kids also. Not beyond the kids' wheelhouse but something they would rather not deal with when they are having to sort through emotions themselves. I don't think Michelle has really ever been there for them emotionally and I think as she has aged, the kids have taken on more of the role of emotional caretaker for their mother. Adult children often do this with a mother in many patriarchal families anyway. It's kind of the emotional equivalent of a driver throwing one's arm across a passenger as they brake suddenly. One day you are the passenger and before you know it, you are in the driver's seat.

I've experienced something of this myself, and it's weird to me because we're a progressive family (not at all patriarchal) and I'm a strong woman. After I aged into a certain decade, my kids started automatically trying to shield me from unpleasantness. I think partly it's because they are in strong and stable positions as adults now, and partly because physically I'm not as capable as I used to be - and I think that plays subconsciously on their minds. Plus, I worked really hard to raise them on my own, and I think this is their way of giving back. Or it's just the subliminal societal pressure of sexism and ageism playing itself out. Probably both.

For Michelle, I think it could be a mix of opposing feelings. I don't think the children received adequate emotional support from her as they were growing up and so they wouldn't expect much, if any, from her now in this situation, AND they view her as the weaker sex, made weaker with age.

I don't think any one of them would have found comfort from her being in court and they were probably just as glad not to have her there.

ETA: That's my take on the kids. My take on Michelle is something completely different. As a mother I would want to be present and available for my kids going through this, especially my daughters. I hope she is providing some Herculean emotional support behind the scenes that we are not privy to, but I sincerely doubt it. That would mean she would have to do some real critical soul searching on why she didn't protect her daughters from the beginning and why she didn't insist on Josh getting help early on, and I don't see that happening.

Edited May 31, 2022 by waltraute

[Giraffe]

I wonder if the Keller parents were never in Arkansas. I could see Michelle using that as an excuse to stay home for everything. She could use the excuse of needing to stay home and take care of hers and Anna’s kids (even though it would be the older girls actually parenting them). IMO in her eyes the convict is probably an innocent young man who simply clicked a couple of wrong links and is now unfairly serving an extended sentence. 

[Cam]

1 hour ago, allyisyourpally5 said:

I have two theories on Michelle’s absence and I don’t know which one to go with.

First theory - she simply didn’t believe it, believed that God will make sure it’s all swept under the rug, their family Godliness would show itself to the world. She didn’t need to hear the accusations planted by the Devil because that’s all they were. God will make sure he’s saved from this worldly trial. Solid genuine denial and arrogance rolled into one.

Second Theory - she wasn’t allowed to go. She’s been fed a much toned down version of court room events from Jim Bob who assured her all was fine. Let’s face it, this was a man who tried to tell a judge what he should allow in a court room. JB clearly did not believe things would get this far, because they’re the Duggars and JB knows better than anybody and has a hotline to God, and Michelle is the obedient wife who has taken her husband's word as gospel.

Additional theory - she didn’t go because she didn’t want to risk the young ones goggling or tracking the trial live somehow. We know what Josh can do with a computer, who’s to say the younger haven’t found ways to hide activity?

 

 

All of your theories are very plausible. In some ways, I thing Meech was doing her best to appear neutral, as in “I love all my children equally, regardless.” She doesn’t want to appear to pick sides. If she stayed out of court, she could still make supportive phone calls to Josh in jail, and after the verdict and issuing a joint statement with JB, still go pal around with Jinger in California. She writes a support letter to the judge and then the weekend before the sentencing, she’s out with Jason, Joy and Austin (James and Jana too) having breakfast; then Jason and Joy show up in court together but separate from JB and have no interaction with him and seem to sit on the prosecution side. Or maybe JB has her play both sides of the fence so he can know what everyone else in the family is saying. Who knows.

 

31 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

But for her, I think the more likely reason is Josh asked her not to attend because he didn’t want his mom to hear it, and didn’t want to see her reaction. And being a mom, she figured she’d break down and sob and it would make it worse. Even being in a cult, and him being an evil pedo, and I’m sure a million resentments and mistakes — they still had a mother/child bond. 

A definite possibility

 

26 minutes ago, waltraute said:

I think that would be true for the kids also. Not beyond the kids' wheelhouse but something they would rather not deal with when they are having to sort through emotions themselves……I don't think any one of them would have found comfort from her being in court and they were probably just as glad not to have her there.

I never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense. Since menopause, Michelle is the appendix of the family: function unknown.

My mother was dysfunctional and childlike and us kids took on the parental role.  It was a large family with different issues than the Duggars, but I have some insight into the dynamic.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Cam

[SassyPants]

I think JB forbade Merch from attending. He didn’t want her tender ears corrupted by Josh’s filthy behaviors and proclivities. He likely used their and Anna’s kids needing her at home as an excuse( although why a fragile baby/toddler Josie didn’t need her mothering  back in the day, is beyond me).

[nst]

is it true that Anna's father wrote a letter in favor of the turd  ? and if so what did it say?

Why michelle didn't show up for the trial or sentencing is a mixture of JB's control and her reluctance to admit anything, being the insane woman she is.

plus the duggar image is forever tarnished and none of Jessa's pictures of her kids or her youtubes can escape it. why joy showed up i will never understand.

They are done. Done

[Giraffe]

11 minutes ago, nst said:

is it true that Anna's father wrote a letter in favor of the turd  ? and if so what did it say?

 

He sure did! It was basically Josh is a good man and I know this because I’ve done prison ministry for decades so please let him go.

[Cults-r-us]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:41 AM, Cam said:

I thought McCandless posted a “strictly the facts” article and then came out with this more detailed timeline supplement which included personal observations. For me, the comments he added from his perspective were interesting. I wouldn’t take it to be the only true account of how things transpired—he was one of many in court that day. But I like reading his opinions about the judge, attorneys, etc. I’d like to read Anna Darling’s personal take, too.

Every time I see Gelfand I read gg-elf-land. 

I thought it was funny when McCandless nearly snorted out loud when the defence described Josh as a "family man". I don't know about you, but I have become so immersed in the culture and steeped in seasonoflife, servant'sheart, blah blah blah fundie-ese, that I didn't bat an eye to hear Josh so described. So, to me, it was refreshing (and humorous) to see McCandless' response.