Josh and Anna 53: 151 Month Sentence

[gustava]

21 hours ago, Cam said:

appendix of the family: function unknown.

A good thread title!

[FiveAcres]

12 hours ago, patsymae said:

Others probably said this but I suspect those letters hurt because they showed that his "support system" is made up of enablers who refuse to see that any of the things he did are problematic. Maybe it's just routine, but he did say the supervisors when he is with his children would be determined by the PO, and he didn't name the mother or the grandparents.

Reportedly, the judge said the letters in support of Josh were "helpful." I wonder if the defense attorneys flinched when he used that adjective, since apparently "helpful" meant the letters confirmed Brooks' intention to sentence on the high side within the sentencing guidelines.

Helpful is one of those adjectives like "interesting."  

[Satan'sFortress]

15 hours ago, Giraffe said:

WOACB needs to be a bit smarter if she wants to keep her “job.” If HSI gets enough calls they could very well go after her for harassment and wasting their time!

I wonder if it really gets "out" if Josh/Anna  could sue her? 

[quiversR4hunting]

20 hours ago, Cam said:

I see Ben is 27 years old. How the heck can someone that young have enough life experience to pastor a congregation?

Josh was 25 when he went to DC to be executive director for Family Research Council. 

I get tired of the only qualification for someone to be a leader in this religion is “has a penis”. 

I agree. I'm catholic and with the church problems, education of priests isn't one of them. In my area, a fresh out of seminary (no matter his age) priest is not give his own parish. He goes to a parish that needs more than one priest to learn how to run a parish. 

Plus IBCs don't have oversight besides the elders. Catholic and other denominations with hierarchy, have checks and balances for finances and such that go beyond the individual parishes. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by quiversR4hunting

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I agree. I'm catholic and with the church problems, education of priests isn't one of them. In my area, a fresh out of seminary (no matter his age) priest is not give his own parish. He goes to a parish that needs more than one priest to learn how to run a parish. 

 

Makes sense. Theirs a Catholic Church in my town with 3 priests. The church parish isn’t huge but it’s a good place for a priest just coming out of seminary school. Most of the people in the church are nice a welcoming to someone new. My temple just got a new Rabbi.  The temple has been around since the 1930’s & he’s only the 3rd or 4 Rabbi to be their. Some of the older members aren’t thrilled with the new guy but he seems ok to me. 

[ILoveJellybeans]

Katie Joy just likes to cause trouble. Im sure the investigation into Josh already considered these things, and I am certain they know much more about pedophiles and their dark web behaviour than some random person with a blog who has a history of unverifiable speculation and rumours portrayed as fact. If Josh was uploading his own content to the dark web, there'd be evidence of that on his devices, and I am certain it was mentioned that they wanted to interview the kids (and its not a "oh, I dont want to, I opt out"). Seeing as there was no mention of it in the rest of the documents, no mention of recent molestation and Josh was not charged with anything related to physically touching a child or producing SA images, we can assume that he left his own kids alone.

Making reports on no evidence wastes time that could be spent on helping other children who are in danger, and mass reporting just clogs up the line. These kids are not at risk right now, as their pedo dad is in prison, so lets let the authorities focus on busting the pedophiles who are out in the community harming kids.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I agree. I'm catholic and with the church problems, education of priests isn't one of them. In my area, a fresh out of seminary (no matter his age) priest is not give his own parish. He goes to a parish that needs more than one priest to learn how to run a parish. 

Plus IBCs don't have oversight besides the elders. Catholic and other denominations with hierarchy, have checks and balances for finances and such that go beyond the individual parishes. 

On the other hand, the hierarchy can move sex offenders from parish to parish and state to state. It happened in both the SBC's recent scandals and the Catholic Church's sex offender scandals. 

The Catholic church also has a lot to say about marriage, parenthood, and procreation despite the clergy not having any experience in these fields. 

Ben at least had some training to be a minister. More than Josh had when he took the job at the FRC or Jeremy had when he was working in Laredo. 

[Antipatriarch]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, waltraute said:

I'll be surprised if the Duggar parents release a statement. I can't see that they would gain anything by doing so, [...] Also, the JB that walked away from the sentencing hearing was not the same cocky JB that told the judge, "I'm not going to allow that".

I agree. The fact that JB hasn't made a statement, says to me that he hasn't figured out any benefit that could come to him by doing so. And in the context of his speedwalk out of court, I like to think he's fuming about that, considering the damage all this has done to his tiny empire and his political ambitions.

And I am here for every minute of it!  "Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" as they say. #schadenfreude

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

5 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I wonder if it really gets "out" if Josh/Anna  could sue her? 

You can sue anyone for anything, but the bar would be pretty high for them to prevail against dear old Katie.  They're both voluntary public figures for starters, and Josh is a convicted criminal.

[marmalade]

3 hours ago, ILoveJellybeans said:

Katie Joy just likes to cause trouble. Im sure the investigation into Josh already considered these things, and I am certain they know much more about pedophiles and their dark web behaviour than some random person with a blog who has a history of unverifiable speculation and rumours portrayed as fact. If Josh was uploading his own content to the dark web, there'd be evidence of that on his devices, and I am certain it was mentioned that they wanted to interview the kids (and its not a "oh, I dont want to, I opt out"). Seeing as there was no mention of it in the rest of the documents, no mention of recent molestation and Josh was not charged with anything related to physically touching a child or producing SA images, we can assume that he left his own kids alone.

Making reports on no evidence wastes time that could be spent on helping other children who are in danger, and mass reporting just clogs up the line. These kids are not at risk right now, as their pedo dad is in prison, so lets let the authorities focus on busting the pedophiles who are out in the community harming kids.

It's been alleged that Anna has refused the authorities to interview her kids. I tend to believe this, given Anna's insular upbringing and her state of denial when it comes to the monster she married. He's still her JoshUa, and she still believes in his innocence.

[Giraffe]

13 minutes ago, marmalade said:

It's been alleged that Anna has refused the authorities to interview her kids. I tend to believe this, given Anna's insular upbringing and her state of denial when it comes to the monster she married. He's still her JoshUa, and she still believes in his innocence.

She can refuse all she wants but the reality is if the judge orders the kids interviewed Anna’s not going to be allowed to decline. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

31 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

She can refuse all she wants but the reality is if the judge orders the kids interviewed Anna’s not going to be allowed to decline. 

I would think the judge would have done that by now.

[Giraffe]

29 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I would think the judge would have done that by now.

For sure, if he were going to. I doubt we’ll ever know (as well we shouldn’t!).

[socalrules]

This is a federal criminal case. This judge did not have jurisdiction over anything related to Anna’s kids.  They were not part of this criminal case. This judge can’t just order they be interviewed. He isn’t conducting an investigation because that is not his job. The prosecution would not seek to interview them because Josh is not being charged with, or accused of, harming them. Unless it’s CPS or family court, no one is interviewing those kids. 

[quiversR4hunting]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

On the other hand, the hierarchy can move sex offenders from parish to parish and state to state. It happened in both the SBC's recent scandals and the Catholic Church's sex offender scandals. 

The Catholic church also has a lot to say about marriage, parenthood, and procreation despite the clergy not having any experience in these fields. 

Ben at least had some training to be a minister. More than Josh had when he took the job at the FRC or Jeremy had when he was working in Laredo. 

True but the Catholic church continues to address the sex abuse and has provided continual training to all lay people and all religious ed kids every year to identify abuse and who and how to tell. When the abuse first came to light, we were getting notices monthly or so about priests being investigated and removed. In the past 5 years, my area has had 3 priests in trouble.  1 for embezzlement (diocese didn't press charges), 1 for sexual harassment of an adult, female office worker (not sure if she pressed charges) and 1 for paddling a student at a school (he is now in prison). 

After witnessing the duggars in regards to the trial, I don't think the IFB will come close to dealing with the abuse. That denomination teaches submission and victim blaming to the women. 

As for the priests with no knowledge of relationships. That isn't true. Plenty of priests have dated and/or been engaged before going to the seminary. A very few have experience of parenthood and being a spouse. I don't believe a counselor or religious leader must experience everything in order to be a good counselor. Not all family counselors have experienced divorce, infidelity or abuse. Not all substance abuse counselor are addicts. And I would bet few counselors that treat mentally ill patients are themselves mentally ill. 

Ben had some training to be a preacher but not like a Catholic priest, Methodist,  Episcopalian or Lutheran pastor or a Rabbi. 

[Mama Mia]

6 hours ago, marmalade said:

It's been alleged that Anna has refused the authorities to interview her kids. I tend to believe this, given Anna's insular upbringing and her state of denial when it comes to the monster she married. He's still her JoshUa, and she still believes in his innocence.

That’s not how it works. It is almost certain the kids were interviewed by some sort of social worker, either through the court or local child welfare following notification of the charges. Anna doesn’t get a say in it. And it would not be publicized in any way. The only way we’d have an inkling would be if they’d charged Josh with those crimes. Which they didn’t. It’s irresponsible and silly of WOACB to try to get an investigation now. The possible perpetrator is behind bars. 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Ben had some training to be a preacher but not like a Catholic priest, Methodist,  Episcopalian or Lutheran pastor or a Rabbi. 

Don’t forget the Unitarians.  The UUs have very strong requirements and not everyone who graduates from an approved program gets ordained.

[quiversR4hunting]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Don’t forget the Unitarians.  The UUs have very strong requirements and not everyone who graduates from an approved program gets ordained.

I didn't know that, thank you for adding them! I'm not suprised because of the progressive nature of the religion that they value education. (I should have put on my list that it wasn't all inclusive, just the ones I knew off the top of my head.)

The only people in the world that value keeping people dumb are people like Betsy DeVos that need sheep to work for their family companies and cults and people that want total control (dictators for example or parents like JimBob and David R, etc.)

[Sullie06]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:55 PM, ElizaB said:

Wouldn’t it be a great twist if Anna convinced all these people to put all these LLCs and properties in her name under presence of protecting it and and then as soon as it’s all in her name she leaves josh and takes all their assets with her? 

She's not that smart, god bless her, but I wish she were. I would love to see JB's face as she peels out, with the Grandkids and all the assets and off into the sunset. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

38 minutes ago, Sullie06 said:

She's not that smart, god bless her, but I wish she were. I would love to see JB's face as she peels out, with the Grandkids and all the assets and off into the sunset. 

Josh is gone. Barring some sort of currently unforeseen change in his sentence, he will not be out of prison until around 2032 or early 2033. Josh, Anna and the kids are going to be different people in different places in 2033.  My guess is that whether it's a pen pal prison girlfriend or just a desire to start a new life somewhere else, Josh is never coming home to Anna and the kids. And his oldest four kids will all be adults in 2033.

Anna isn't smart, but she isn't stupid either. At some point during the next decade she'll probably come to realize this.  If she's as calculating as I think she may be, JB may well watch her peel out one day.   

[feministxtian]

12 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Ben had some training to be a preacher but not like a Catholic priest, Methodist,  Episcopalian or Lutheran pastor or a Rabbi. 

In my denomination, an MDiv from one of 2 universities is a prerequisite. Then 4-5 years of pastoral apprenticeship before ordination. I've noticed in the IFB tradition, there is no real education required to name yourself pastor and start a church. 

[Sullie06]

In regards to whether the children had any sort of CPS or forensic interview it's very possible. In a lot of the CSAM cases we've dealt with during the course of the investigation, if it is determined that the alleged offender has minor children in his/her care, a hotline report will be filed and CPS will do at least initial interviews to determine any possibility of sexual abuse. 

However, I will say, that most of the offenders I've dealt with who are CSAM offenders, do not perpetrate on their children. But due to Josh's history with the sisters, I would say he's at a higher risk to commit offenses than most internet predator's. 

[SassyPants]

46 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

In my denomination, an MDiv from one of 2 universities is a prerequisite. Then 4-5 years of pastoral apprenticeship before ordination. I've noticed in the IFB tradition, there is no real education required to name yourself pastor and start a church. 

Like you, I have only been involved in churches that require leadership to be extremely educated and widely experienced (RCC and UU). I wonder if the IFB and those associated are willing to let fairly uneducated and inexperienced people preach because at the very core, these groups only go to services to learn a bit more about the meaning of scriptures?  I don’t think they are going for spiritually or to gain insight on how to best communicate, be in relationships, navigate an ever changing world or make the world a better place. It sounds to me that these services are like story time at the Library where you go for some entertainment. I’m not sure how all those fire and brimstone sermons get woven in-

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

12 minutes ago, Sullie06 said:

However, I will say, that most of the offenders I've dealt with who are CSAM offenders, do not perpetrate on their children. But due to Josh's history with the sisters, I would say he's at a higher risk to commit offenses than most internet predator's. 

Josh got a significantly longer sentence from this judge than other perps looking at the same or similar material. His sentences are generally in the 6 to 7 years for first time offenders. Arguably the extra time was because of the molestations; the judge clearly indicated this. But considering the pretty large gap in time (about 16 years?) and the fact that he was a kid, I do wonder if the judge was also thinking about Josh's kids, even in the absence of indication that any harm has come to them.   

Unsubstantiated, but there have been rumors that Anna refused to present her kids for any kind of interviews. Could this have caused the judge to wonder if she/they were hiding something and consequently raised serious concerns for him? I don't think this is something he could/would verbalize, but if I were a judge I'd have a hard time separating out my concerns for Josh's kids from his known crimes, especially if there was no cooperation from the mother. 

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

I keep wondering why this trial was something I couldn't get out of my head and I just realized some parallels.

So this was 50 years ago. Most of the players have passed on. I had a relative who married 3 times total. The 3rd time was the charm. The first two were 'ehhh.' The first one got her 2 surviving daughters.

We were chatting in the car, and her voice got low and she said "I want to tell you something but you can't tell anyone. Relative was molested." And I said 'I know, by your second husband! She told me when I was 5 or 6, and I didn't really understand what that meant, but she told me that if I felt uncomfortable or any dude tried to get me on his lap or away from family, I was to tell her, and she would handle it. She kept me safe and we talked about this a lot.'

And then I asked the relative if there were any indications of something being off with that guy before she married him. Relative said the guy who had just been divorced from his wife, she was a 's&^t in town and you couldn't trust her and she was keeping his kids away from him. The ex started a rumor he touched his own kids' Hearing this phrase made me sick. I told her that was victim shaming and in light of it being true that he had done things even to his OWN kids, didn't she feel a little responsible for making that choice? And letting her daughter make her own decisions about who to tell?

She told me I didn't understand. That women lie. And that she divorced him as soon as she could, but she didn't have options. And that it was something no one should ever talk about. I said that her daughter told me to talk about it, if anything that would mean that it was less likely to happen to me or someone close to me. The relative still didn't understand and to this day has revised history. There's this picture, a family portrait  of them that I saw a while back. And you can tell just in the eyes that something terrible is happening. It screams for help. And this relative just ignored it.

There's a special kind of thing wrong in the brains of these people, who are sacrificing the safety of their kids for their fame, or these stupid ideas that their husbands are flawless. That relative keeps reminding me more and more of Anna. And for that reason, I feel no sorrow for Anna. She, like this relative, understands things are wrong but keep deluding themselves into a false narrative that I can only hope crashes down on them at some point but probably never will.

Sorry if this is an overshare. But putting these pieces together this early on the west coast today has kind of done alot today. I wish that the person this happened to was still around so I could tell them it was okay, and that they were loved. And that I appreciated them growing up to try and be the kind of person that could help them out when they were growing up.