Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy

[CanadianMamam]

42 minutes ago, mama4cor said:

Catching up and wanted to add to this. My family is the big, loud, always together type. My husbands family is small and not close at all. I love my family but I am not a fan of the big gatherings or everyone always being in each other’s business. My husband is the complete opposite. He loves big, loud gatherings and he would have people over every single weekend if he could. He loves to entertain. It’s part of what makes us work so well as a couple - we balance each other out.

All that to say that I agree with the fact that for Katie especially, having people around and visiting all the time might be what she prefers because it’s what she is used to. And Travis, growing up in a smaller family, could also be the type who really loves lots of people and activity in his home. 

And Travis grew up in a smaller immediate family, but a close extended family. The Clark's do a LOT together. The cousins are all close in age. They vacation together, regular family get together, etc. So he is probably used to having lots of family around too, if not in the same way Katie is. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

And Travis grew up in a smaller immediate family, but a close extended family. The Clark's do a LOT together. The cousins are all close in age. They vacation together, regular family get together, etc. So he is probably used to having lots of family around too, if not in the same way Katie is. 

What’s crazy is that if you add grandma and grandpa Clark, the 3 Clark children, their 3 spouses, and then the 9 Clark grandchildren, it’s still not as big as Katie’s immediate family. 

[FluffySnowball]

On 6/26/2022 at 8:10 PM, Jewels64 said:

I often wonder if Katie has the critical thinking skills to  understand the disfunction in the Clark family.  

Even if Katie doesn’t critically question and analyze the situation and the (likely) abuse, she might have an emotional reaction to living with/close to the Clark family. And by emotional reaction, I mean a gut feeling. She might feel that things are not going well, she might be scared, worried, anxious, etc. That’s my guess at least. Katie might not think about stuff with terms such as abuse and trauma, but in the sense of “I feel so uncomfortable and unhappy”. 

On 5/29/2022 at 2:34 AM, eljayem said:

JFC... what a psycho. I can imagine that seeing that happen in real life I might not fully grasp/remember what the actual fuck happened - but by having it on video to watch is really confronting. I hope by having this shit on video it will over time help Travis (and Katie) leave his family, move to Tennessee out of their control. Although there is his mother to consider - maybe their kids don't want to leave their mother dealing with this weirdo on her own.

I’m quoting this super late, so please apologize. But one thought just came to mind when reading the post that I want to share: we (collective we on FJ) have often speculated that maybe Jana doesn’t want to get married in order to protect her younger, unmarried siblings still living at home. And now there’s speculation that Travis and his two siblings don’t want to leave their mother alone. But I just think both  options are incorrect and imply two false notions:

- Jana and the Clark children detect and dislike the abuse going on in their families to a level that they are consciously aware of it and make decisions based on acting different from their parents 

- all four of these people are increasingly selfless and put the well-being ob abused family members before their own (awhile not taking actual steps to end the abuse and while remaining in their abusive family units) 

Edited June 28, 2022 by FluffySnowball

[CanadianMamam]

So Mike and Devenn's dog had puppies. Does Kayla have a dog? Is this the approved "puppy breeding" time?

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

So Mike and Devenn's dog had puppies. Does Kayla have a dog? Is this the approved "puppy breeding" time?

Lol I wouldn’t be surprised if they all had puppies at the same time because the Clark parents gave them the go ahead allay the same time. You can have puppies, but no babies yet. 

[CanadianMamam]

There are a lot of creepy things about the Clark family, but I think I find the fact that they all seem to fall into some perfectly scheduled order of things the weirdest. 

[HermioneSparrow]

13 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

There are a lot of creepy things about the Clark family, but I think I find the fact that they all seem to fall into some perfectly scheduled order of things the weirdest. 

The Stepford Clarks.

[Audrey2]

On 6/29/2022 at 7:13 AM, HermioneSparrow said:

The Stepford Clarks.

The Stevehova Clarks.

[patsymae]

"My family is the big, loud, always together type. My husbands family is small and not close at all. "

 

Sounds like My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "But what about all your cousins?" "I have two cousins and they live in Ohio."

[JermajestyDuggar]

33 minutes ago, patsymae said:

"My family is the big, loud, always together type. My husbands family is small and not close at all. "

 

Sounds like My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "But what about all your cousins?" "I have two cousins and they live in Ohio."

My husband and I had a moment like this when we were first together. I mentioned I had a lot of cousins. He’s like, I only have 4. And they are all boys. I was like, you don’t even have a girl cousin! I have 20 first cousins! I thought it was so odd! I just thought about it and realized I have 10 male first cousins and 10 female first cousins. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[Zebedee]

My Polish grandad had three brothers, so I have a few of whatever their grandchildren are called, but most of them have no/one child; my great uncle (grandad's cousin, whatever that is) was my closest relative - no kids. English side - one great uncle on either side - again, no kids. My aunt has no kids, and my uncle has two, so two cousins. But out of the four of us, only my brother has 2 children. I didn't even meet my cousins until I was 11. There are a few more distant relatives - the grandson of my grandmother's cousin. And my uncle's wife is Irish Catholic from a massive family, so I guess my cousins have a lot of cousins. The nice thing with the Polish family is that (great)grandchildren of cousins all refer to each other as uncle/aunt/cousin etc. I guess they were all together in close quarters after they were relocated from Lviv to Silesia in 1918, and then the older members of the family went through a lot of shit with the war and Russian occupation, so they stayed close. Whereas the English side moved away, fell out etc and just sort of forgot about each other.

[Jackie3]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:05 AM, FluffySnowball said:

But I just think both  options are incorrect and imply two false notions:

- Jana and the Clark children detect and dislike the abuse going on in their families to a level that they are consciously aware of it and make decisions based on acting different from their parents 

- all four of these people are increasingly selfless and put the well-being ob abused family members before their own (awhile not taking actual steps to end the abuse and while remaining in their abusive family units) 

I'm not sure why these notions would be necessarily false. They are exactly the dynamic in many families with abusive parents.

-Even if Jana has normalized "abuse" somewhat, it's very likely that she does dislike seeing her siblings harmed.  JB and Michelle may be abusive, but that doesn't mean Jana is OK with that. It's terribly traumatizing to see a sibling abused. I think it's likely that Jana is making decisions different than her parents, she's a different person after all. This probably takes the form of, "Don't do that, you know what Mom will say." or "Dad said to finish that now, better stop joking around." 

--I don't know if they are selfless. Most likely they feel trapped and helpless. It's a lot easier for Jana or the Clarks to stay within the system they were raised. They may not be 100% sure how much of it is wrong, anyway. Taking steps to end the abuse would be close to impossible anyway. Jana can't abscond with Josie. Calling the police might lead to nothing at all, or removal of the minor children, or some other scary ending she can't bear to face. 

I doubt all the young adults in the Duggar/Clark family are abusive like their parents. I think many of them hate the abuse but are unsure of what to do. I suspect they are frequently told that their life is normal and their parents are engaging in normal discipline.

[Melissa1977]

I have only 1 sibling, only 1 cousin, and only 1 nephew. 

 

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:02 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

My husband and I had a moment like this when we were first together. I mentioned I had a lot of cousins. He’s like, I only have 4. And they are all boys. I was like, you don’t even have a girl cousin! I have 20 first cousins! I thought it was so odd! I just thought about it and realized I have 10 male first cousins and 10 female first cousins. 

I have five siblings and 17 first cousins.  My boyfriend has one sibling and five first cousins.  

Very different family dynamics. 

[CanadianMamam]

I have no siblings and 15 first cousins. 

[CanadianMamam]

So one time when I was looking at the website, I accidentally downloaded the nursery schedule to my Google docs and today's I opened it to try and figure out what it was and I noticed that Katie is listed a few times as a volunteer with the nursery school. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[JDuggs]

Their dog Remy is due to give birth to her puppies within the next couple of days. I can’t believe these two kids are the ones in charge of this. I hope Travis has done this before. I’d be so out of my element helping a dog give birth and helping her care for the puppies. And I hope they give Remy a break and don’t keep breeding her.

[Bobology]

I read here that others in the Clark family breed these dogs. Could the over-controlling Clark dad and/or the grandpa be highly suggesting or even requiring Travis and his siblings to start off marriage like this in order to get a taste of the workload of having an actual child? (That is a ridiculous notion to me but these men are clearly abusive with their control.) I can see him using this as some manipulated method in his mind. Or it could truly be an interest that each child has on her or his own, I guess.

[JDuggs]

I think they are breeding their dog for two purposes: income and Instagram cuteness factor. Do they think it’s enjoyable for their dog to be pregnant, give birth and care for her puppies because humans possibly enjoy that process? Remy is their pet, not their employee.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think it’s insane how much each child seems to follow the Clark family rules on how to do life. I’m amazed none of the 3 kids have strayed at least a little. 

Katie just posted the first puppy is here.

[mama4cor]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:50 PM, patsymae said:

"My family is the big, loud, always together type. My husbands family is small and not close at all. "

 

Sounds like My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "But what about all your cousins?" "I have two cousins and they live in Ohio."

Haha, EXACTLY like My Big Fat Greek Wedding. One of the reasons it’s my favorite movie. Husband has 3 cousins and isn’t close to any of them. I have a ton and we’re fairly close. Family Reunion every single year and everyone is up to date on everyone else’s current events. I just had a 3 hour conversation with my mom on Sunday about all that is new and exciting. Fortunately I can get away with revealing very little about what’s going on in my life if I just keep asking questions (I’m the one person who wants to keep my life private).

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Most of dog birthing is hands off.  Just walk away and let them do their thing, checking in every so often to make sure there's no issue.  Actual puppy care is a toss-up because theoretically mom can take care of the puppies' needs other than cleaning up after them.  An experienced breeder may actually not let mom be with the puppies unless supervised (especially a first time mom) because they can kill the whole litter very quickly.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Oh god Remi had 10 puppies! That seems like a lot for a first litter! Let’s hope they all are healthy and stay that way. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

32 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh god Remi had 10 puppies! That seems like a lot for a first litter! Let’s hope they all are healthy and stay that way. 

Free Remi!

[Mrs Ms]

And free the puppies.