(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[mpheels]

9 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

He's not supposed to be around that sister!! 

The judge was very clear. He can't be around any kids under 12 unless they are his children! Where I live that would include siblings under 12. Josie Brooklyn Duggar will turn 12 in December, but she is currently 11 years old. That's a violation of his parole and that's before you factor in that he has gone after other sisters in the past.

I agree that most of the family and friends probably think he is innocent and the lawyers will make sure he is proven innocent. It looked like a smaller crowd than I expected and I assume many people either weren't invited or didn't want to come.

I have no idea which one of his kids was in the wedding party.

I think the prosecutors should into this as a parole violation, but I'm sure no one cares.

It can’t be a parole violation. Josh has not been convicted, and therefore has not been paroled*. He is out on bond, and one condition of the bond is limited contact with children. If the judge gave Josh permission to attend the wedding, then he hasn’t violated the terms of his release. If he did attend without permission, then the judge can revoke his release and keep him in jail until the trial ends. Violating the terms of his release would also impact and leniency the judge might consider at sentencing. Count me among those who assume he had permission to be at the wedding if he was actually there. It’s possible he was allowed to attend with strict terms, like ceremony only and no interaction with kids.

*the federal system doesn’t do “parole” - if convicted, Josh might spend less time in prison than originally sentenced, due to good behavior/prison crowding. That is different than parole in that it can’t be revoked. He may also be sentenced to a period of probation/supervised release, to follow his incarceration, but that is also a different process/decision that takes place at the time of sentencing, independent of early release for good behavior)

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, mpheels said:

It can’t be a parole violation. Josh has not been convicted, and therefore has not been paroled*. He is out on bond, and one condition of the bond is limited contact with children. If the judge gave Josh permission to attend the wedding, then he hasn’t violated the terms of his release. If he did attend without permission, then the judge can revoke his release and keep him in jail until the trial ends. Violating the terms of his release would also impact and leniency the judge might consider at sentencing. Count me among those who assume he had permission to be at the wedding if he was actually there. It’s possible he was allowed to attend with strict terms, like ceremony only and no interaction with kids.

*the federal system doesn’t do “parole” - if convicted, Josh might spend less time in prison than originally sentenced, due to good behavior/prison crowding. That is different than parole in that it can’t be revoked. He may also be sentenced to a period of probation/supervised release, to follow his incarceration, but that is also a different process/decision that takes place at the time of sentencing, independent of early release for good behavior)

Agreed. I think the fact that his chaperones/keepers are the parents of the bride and the groom is the brother of his wife, only make it more likely that Josh had permission to attend the wedding.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

3 hours ago, Jinderella said:

A lawyer on Youtube (don’t remember his name) said he would get an additional two years because of the young age of the victims. Does anyone know about that?

I don't, but judges do what they want to do with the guidelines. I would guess that both Josh's attorneys and the prosecutor know how this judge tends to sentence in this exact scenario - the number of images, the age of the victims, possession-only, and first time offense. Sadly, and unbelievably, most of these guys aren't looking at images of teenagers. 

[AussieKrissy]

51 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

He's not supposed to be around that sister!! 

The judge was very clear. He can't be around any kids under 12 unless they are his children! Where I live that would include siblings under 12. Josie Brooklyn Duggar will turn 12 in December, but she is currently 11 years old. That's a violation of his parole and that's before you factor in that he has gone after other sisters in the past.

I agree that most of the family and friends probably think he is innocent and the lawyers will make sure he is proven innocent. It looked like a smaller crowd than I expected and I assume many people either weren't invited or didn't want to come.

I have no idea which one of his kids was in the wedding party.

I think the prosecutors should into this as a parole violation, but I'm sure no one cares.

bail violation 

parole is part of sentencing

I can't remember did JB have to put up any assurity or cash to get josh out on bail?

If so I hope even more so that Josh fucks up and JB looses more!

[feministxtian]

29 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

I don't, but judges do what they want to do with the guidelines. I would guess that both Josh's attorneys and the prosecutor know how this judge tends to sentence in this exact scenario - the number of images, the age of the victims, possession-only, and first time offense. Sadly, and unbelievably, most of these guys aren't looking at images of teenagers. 

another factor is if you've pissed off the judge. Long, long ago, a certain X pissed off a judge regarding child support. This idiot ended up having to pay twice what the guidelines said since 1) Guidelines are not set in stone and 2) you don't blow f-bombs at the judge when being asked if you paid a medical bill for your kid. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

3 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

another factor is if you've pissed off the judge. 

If I were up on charges, I'd hate to think my attorney's motions or attitude would cause me to get more prison time. I'm sure it happens because they're human, but judges should sentence on the crime, not on the behavior of the defense attorney. And it would be the attorneys we're talking about, as Josh himself hasn't said anything. Which is a good thing for him, because if his behavior at the bond hearing was any indication, he'd not be helping himself.

[Letgo]

23 hours ago, ifosterkittens said:

 the government has a program that can track who downloaded that image by following the hash. If I am getting the process wrong, or someone else can better explain it please do. 

The hash would be genius! Great way to track where the images go. Someone would still have to pay for those images though. Does one use a credit card to purchase this garbage? Paypal? Venmo? I would think that following the money ought to lead to the purchaser of the images/video. Or at the very least to someone who could point a finger at the person-in case someone else's credit card was borrowed "because I left mine at home."

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, Letgo said:

Does one use a credit card to purchase this garbage? Paypal? Venmo? I would think that following the money ought to lead to the purchaser of the images/video. Or at the very least to someone who could point a finger at the person-in case someone else's credit card was borrowed "because I left mine at home."

No credit cards or payment services. It's been reported that Josh downloaded the images from Bit-Torrent websites on the dark web, which he was able to hide from the Covenant Eyes program by splitting his hard drive. He was apparently under the impression these machinations would keep him anonymous. 

[Ilovebrownies]

He didn’t need to pay for this stuff.  It’s file sharing, like the old Napster and Limewire to fileshare music.  

A very much hated YTber is claiming an exclusive that Josh will try to blame Caleb, which I read on here after his arrest.  

[onekidanddone]

9 minutes ago, Ilovebrownies said:

He didn’t need to pay for this stuff.  It’s file sharing, like the old Napster and Limewire to fileshare music.  

A very much hated YTber is claiming an exclusive that Josh will try to blame Caleb, which I read on here after his arrest.  

Yea watched that as well. Where exactly is this channel getting their information? 

[HereComesTreble]

Who dafuq invites someone charged with possession of CSA to their wedding!?!

F that & F them.

[3KidsAndStopped]

I think we are all about to see just how low Josh will go to excuse his behaviour and anyone-ANYONE-he can point the finger at will be fair game for him at this point. I think this trial will be messy, I think it will reveal a lot about the whole Duggar dynamic and this may well be the straw that broke the camel's back for older married Duggars splitting from the fold.

What exactly does Josh have to do before Anna wakes up? Why are her family not stepping in at this point? I feel so sorry for Anna. Genuinely sorry for her. She was completely naive when she married and she has been treated appallingly; what Josh already did before this was bad enough and humiliating for her. 

If he is found guilty, surely this is the point where he is cut off by everyone? Lets hope Anna will be looked after and not also cut adrift.

[Ilovebrownies]

Anna may be the victim of his abuse but I think that by now, with all the shit he has done, she is also an abuser to her kids,  How do you not protect your kids?  She may think that standing by her husband makes her look godly but it’s just the opposite to me.  Protect you kids Anna!

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

She was completely naive when she married

But she isn’t that naive person anymore. She had social media accounts that showed she is a hate filled Trump supporter who will excuse all sorts of awful things as long as they are done by a white, male republican. Belief wise I don’t think she is as rare as we would like to think. Look how many people excused Trump for sexualizing a small child. Look how many who downplay sexual violence on women and children by republican politicians. In the end Anna seems to be one of those folks who believe the only folks who should be held accountable are the ones who aren’t white, aren’t Christian and aren’t republican. 
 

She is an adult with agency who is making these decisions. She has options, even within the confines of IBLP, but she is choosing to proudly stand by Josh.

[3KidsAndStopped]

9 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

She is an adult with agency who is making these decisions. She has options, even within the confines of IBLP, but she is choosing to proudly stand by Josh.

I don't disagree with this- but I do believe the critical thinking skills of anyone so deeply indoctrinated are compromised, perhaps even non existent. What has not helped Anna is that after the first public horrible thing Josh did, she was widely praised and celebrated within her societal sphere for forgiving Josh-that has reinforced her reward system and has hard wired her brain to default to that. We see through Anna through a lens. Her perception is probably a very long way away from what we see.

I agree, horrible beliefs. But I genuinely believe the 2nd gen of some cults are without the critical thinking skills to challenge them. Take Jill as an example. It has taken a very long time away from their clutches to even partially challenge their belief system. Anna is still firmly entrenched in it.

I dont think there is anyone on FJ that isnt desperate for Anna to realise she has a choice and critically look at her life. I just dont see she is capable of questioning at this point sadly.

[SassyPants]

Is anyone here doubting that Anna is part of a mind altering cult? She has been brainwashed. Frankly, at this moment, she has no more ability to make critical decisions than an individual with limited intellect. She absolutely shouldn’t be having sex or procreating. I don’t think she has the skills, world experiences or reasoning to live independently, and certainly not to solely parent 7 kids. It’s all kinds of wrong. I wonder how much Josh and Anna’s situation has affected Jana’s adult decisions? As a young adult living amongst that shitstorm, it would have affected mine.

[VixenToast]

11 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Yea watched that as well. Where exactly is this channel getting their information? 

Out of curiosity, I wonder if there was a reason for the hate? I know exactly which channel we are referring. I watch it from time to time and don’t know how I feel about that channel. I just wondered what that person did to earn the ire and dislike of FJ. Tbh they rub me the wrong way often, that’s my feelings.

[indianabones]

50 minutes ago, VixenToast said:

Out of curiosity, I wonder if there was a reason for the hate? I know exactly which channel we are referring. I watch it from time to time and don’t know how I feel about that channel. I just wondered what that person did to earn the ire and dislike of FJ. Tbh they rub me the wrong way often, that’s my feelings.

She reads here and on Reddit, gets her information from both sites, and then claims it's from one of her "inside sources". She also used to straight up lie for half her stories, although this past year she's admittedly been a tad more reliable.

[Alisamer]

16 hours ago, Letgo said:

The hash would be genius! Great way to track where the images go. Someone would still have to pay for those images though. Does one use a credit card to purchase this garbage? Paypal? Venmo? I would think that following the money ought to lead to the purchaser of the images/video. Or at the very least to someone who could point a finger at the person-in case someone else's credit card was borrowed "because I left mine at home."

I think Josh just did file sharing, but when there is money being exchanged on the dark web I've heard it's largely bitcoin type stuff. Anything to make it harder to trace, and a step removed from the person in question.

[SassyPants]

Josh and Anna are the poster couple for DO NOT RAISE YOUR KIDS IN A PATRIARCHAL CULT. Anna is brainwashed to a nonsensical zombie state, and Josh is so entitled that he thinks he can do whatever he wants, no matter how vile, without being held accountable.    

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I dont think there is anyone on FJ that isnt desperate for Anna to realise she has a choice and critically look at her life. I just dont see she is capable of questioning at this point sadly.

Anna may be biding her time until the verdict(s).  She'll then know whether Josh will be around and how the Duggars are dealing with the situation.  For now, she just had a baby, has six other kids to take care of, and may have been advised to lay low and work on her supportive smile.

I like to think that there's a moment just after she wakes up when she wonders wtf she's doing.  This certainly isn't the first time she has had to deal with the effects of Josh's stuff hitting the fan.  Then, I expect reality sets in and it's back to dealing with another day and good thing the bills are being paid.

[Knight of Ni]

Watching some of the interview of the Turpin sisters solidified my view of Anna. Before I had a tiny bit of sympathy for her and justified her behavior by thinking "this is the way she was taught" and "this is the only life she knows". 

Jordan Turpin was able to escape her situation even though it was the only life she knew. She knew next to nothing of the outside world and she still knew it was wrong. She still knew that she had to escape not just for her sake but for the sake of her siblings. Hearing her voice on the 911 call and talking to the deputy really had an impact on me. She was absolutely terrified. She was in fear for life but she still took that first step to fix it. Anna was sheltered yes, but she is still accountable for her situation. She is willfully staying with Josh. Still publicly supporting him. Still putting him before her children. Jordan Turpin was so isolated that her physical and likely her mental development were stunted and she still knew she had to do something.  And she did it. I am in awe at her courage. Anna will never have that kind of courage. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

I feel sorry for the Anna the extremely sheltered girl Josh proposed to in that restaurant all those years ago.  I'm sorry her parents encouraged her to marry a guy who they knew had issues, and knowing she'd be pushed onto a TV show with him.  And I'm sorry her life didn't turn out how she dreamed it would.

I may not agree, but I understand why Josh's attorneys would want her to appear to support him now. But if she stays with him through incarceration and beyond, I will not only not feel sorry for her, I will revile her. She can pretend all she wants, but she knows what he is. Josh's parents didn't protect their own daughters from him, they will not do anything to protect their grandchildren from him. Which means Anna is all those kids have. If she doesn't take action, she's deserving of nothing but scorn.   

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

Watching some of the interview of the Turpin sisters solidified my view of Anna. Before I had a tiny bit of sympathy for her and justified her behavior by thinking "this is the way she was taught" and "this is the only life she knows". 

Jordan Turpin was able to escape her situation even though it was the only life she knew. She knew next to nothing of the outside world and she still knew it was wrong. She still knew that she had to escape not just for her sake but for the sake of her siblings. Hearing her voice on the 911 call and talking to the deputy really had an impact on me. She was absolutely terrified. She was in fear for life but she still took that first step to fix it. Anna was sheltered yes, but she is still accountable for her situation. She is willfully staying with Josh. Still publicly supporting him. Still putting him before her children. Jordan Turpin was so isolated that her physical and likely her mental development were stunted and she still knew she had to do something.  And she did it. I am in awe at her courage. Anna will never have that kind of courage. 

Jordan is a rock star! Jennifer too, because she tried and when she couldn't she helped. They are exceptional young women. 

[SassyPants]

Anna is in a particularly unsettling or difficult position because JB is a master controller, and Anna, along with all the Duggars, has been provided for and  has not had to provide much independent work to live rather securely. OTOH, her husband is clearly a horrible deviant. She obviously is unable to walk away from all that $upport despite how dysfunctional it is and the costs associated. She’d be better off without JB’s controlling support. In that case, she’d likely have far fewer kids to support/raise/nurture too. Anna has never had to get her shit together and make reasonable decisions. She is on JB’s puppet strings.