(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[nelliebelle1197]

Hey gang! Time for a new thread and time for a reminder:

Please don't speculate on sexual abuse victims, especially underaged and unconfirmed! Thanks!

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by nelliebelle1197

[gustava]

A plea the the deity "To Whom It May Concern":  If Josh is dumb enough to go t trial, PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE televise it🙏

[socalrules]

I am not sure why anyone thinks Jim Bob is going to take the fifth on the stand or need an ankle bracelet. He has no reason to take the fifth. There does not appear to be any valid crime he can be charged with related to the current case or the past molestations. Even if back when the molestations occurred there was some crime he could be charged in relation to not stopping the abuse, the statute of limitations has long since run. Avoiding a subpoena is not a crime. You can’t be punished for it. You are not required to make it easier for someone to serve you with a subpoena. At some point, Jim Bob’s lawyer will likely agree (with Jim Bob‘a permission) to accept the subpoena on his behalf just because the optics of his avoiding it makes him look bad. It’s likely Jim Bob just wants to avoid testifying in general, not that he is in fear of being charged with a crime if he testifies because there is no reason to believe he faces any criminal charges related to this matter. 

[Alisamer]

I think Jim Bob is all kinds of shady in various mostly financial ways, but I agree there doesn't seem to be any crimes related to Josh's going on. I do think it seems shady to appear to be avoiding a subpoena. 

I also am a little surprised they didn't show up at the big fundraiser with the subpoena. It's what I'd have done. Maybe there are still some people on the police there who like JimBob enough not to want to publically embarrass him like that. 

As for Anna's clothing choices, I bet she was guided on what to wear this time, or at least given advice on it. The dark dress seemed appropriate enough for the occasion IMO. As to what she wore to Nurie and Nathan's wedding? I have no idea what she was thinking. Other than maybe "wow, this girl's family has really half-assed the wedding planning on this, haven't they? They usually dress like ragamuffins so no one will care if I go comfy on this one, right?" 

She also probably figured no one would be looking at her past Jill's cabbage boobs and hair extensions, after they finished wondering how Nurie still fit in the wedding dress she'd gotten when she was like 13 or something. The Rods are such a flashy loud train wreck she probably assumed they'd be enough distraction for people not to care what she wore.

[Ms. Brightside]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I also am a little surprised they didn't show up at the big fundraiser with the subpoena. It's what I'd have done. Maybe there are still some people on the police there who like JimBob enough not to want to publically embarrass him like that. 

I have no idea if this is true everywhere or not, but I remember watching a documentary several years ago about domestic violence, and when serving the accused men restraining orders against their partners, the police were very careful to try several times to arrange meeting the men in a way that would not embarrass them: not at work, generally a plainclothes officer if they were in a busy public place, etc. If they weren’t successful, then they’d resort to coming to their workplace or a party, but generally they made an attempt to respect people’s lives and reputations (and I’m sure that had the added benefit of making the people they track down less reactive and more amenable, so easier to deal with). It wouldn’t surprise me if the first couple of attempts to serve Jim Bob are done with that same philosophy in mind. 

[Mela99]

I can almost guarantee they didn’t serve the subpoena there because they didn’t want to get mauled by his supporters or let JB get anything on film to scream PERSECUTION.

JB cannot invoke the fifth, but he could say “I do not recall”.

[Idlewild]

Anna used to come across as very proud of her status as fundie royalty. She hasn’t had much to feel superior about in recent years so the wannabe Rods brought back the old feelings. Josh, of course, threw himself into being MC…..

[onekidanddone]

3 hours ago, gustava said:

A plea the the deity "To Whom It May Concern":  If Josh is dumb enough to go t trial, PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE televise it🙏

And take the stand. I’d pay to see him go down in flames. Ya know pants on fire and all that. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Boob may not actively be evading the subpoena, but the optics are bad now that the subpoena is public knowledge. His best bet is to get it over with sooner rather than later, or else he might get served at the Keller/Reber wedding reception. That would be epic…

[Bassett Lady]

3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

As to what she wore to Nurie and Nathan's wedding? I have no idea what she was thinking.

I wondered if a child had gotten sick on her “nice dress” or had a diaper leak. She had traveled to the event and probably didn’t have two nice outfits packed in her suitcase. 
 

I once had a toddler vomit all over me on a plane. My clothes were disgusting. I ended up wearing a blue “plane blanket” as a sarong skirt and fashioned a top out of two first class napkins and some safety pins. I looked super “special” that day. 

Anyone with small kids has had at least one experience of their clothing being rendered unwearable by the child. If the incident occurred just before the wedding, and she didn’t have any other clothes to wear, it makes sense. 
 

I generally don’t care what other people wear as long as it doesn’t smell bad and their private bits are covered. 

[Expectopatronus]

@Bassett Lady You’re right; that is a risk with babies and toddlers. My sister and I hope to take our girls to Disney next summer (depending on the Covid situation). My kiddo will be 2.5. Thanks for the reminder to stick a change of clothes for both of us in my carry-on. 

[EmCatlyn]

I don’t think it will come to Jim Bob being served at the Keller/Reber wedding, but I wonder why JB hasn’t made quiet arrangements to be served already and avoid the bad publicity.  Surely it is better for the news to say, “JB has been served a subpoena,” than “JB is doing everything he can to avoid being served with a subpoena.”  Being served does not imply guilt; avoidance of being served does suggest less than co-operative behavior.

What I am wondering is whether JB is avoiding the subpoena because he thinks it’s time to cut Josh loose and tell him to plead guilty.  If the molestation is brought up and if he or his daughters have to testify, JB may have more to lose than he did when Josh was just going to insist, “I have been accused for something someone else did.”   Who knows what else might come out in court about JB and his parenting?  

If Josh pleads guilty before JB is served with the subpoena, it may be easier for JB to disassociate himself from the whole thing.  Maybe. 

That being said, maybe JB isn’t really thinking about telling Josh to plead guilty because he won’t pay any more for the defense.  Maybe JB hasn’t yet figured out that he can’t avoid being served the subpoena indefinitely. 🤷‍♀️

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, socalrules said:

I am not sure why anyone thinks Jim Bob is going to take the fifth on the stand or need an ankle bracelet. He has no reason to take the fifth. There does not appear to be any valid crime he can be charged with related to the current case or the past molestations. Even if back when the molestations occurred there was some crime he could be charged in relation to not stopping the abuse, the statute of limitations has long since run. Avoiding a subpoena is not a crime. You can’t be punished for it. You are not required to make it easier for someone to serve you with a subpoena. At some point, Jim Bob’s lawyer will likely agree (with Jim Bob‘a permission) to accept the subpoena on his behalf just because the optics of his avoiding it makes him look bad. It’s likely Jim Bob just wants to avoid testifying in general, not that he is in fear of being charged with a crime if he testifies because there is no reason to believe he faces any criminal charges related to this matter. 

1. The ankle bracelet comment was intended to be humorous.

2. I agree those aren't crimes. However if JB continues to avoid the subpoena and refuses to show up to court and testify that is a contempt of court. Subpoenas are legal summons to court. Failing to obey one is a crime that can lead to a fine or jail time. Here is some more information about that According to that source, you don't have to be the suspect/target of the investigation to be charged with contempt of court.

@Jinderella pointed out that it would nice for JB to testify in place of his daughters. I thought about that. I agree, but he already made two of them talk about the incidents with Megyn Kelly, so I doubt he's worried about sparing them pain.

 

[OHFL2009]

4 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

@Jinderella pointed out that it would nice for JB to testify in place of his daughters. I thought about that. I agree, but he already made two of them talk about the incidents with Megyn Kelly, so I doubt he's worried about sparing them pain.

 

When Jill and Jessa went on Megyn Kelly, they were still firmly in the fold and he probably had complete control over what they said. At this point, Jill is definitely not under his control, Jinger seems more likely to be swayed by Jeremy's input that JB's, and Joy seems to have reconnected a bit with Jill based on social media, so she could be a bit of a wildcard. Jessa's probably the most likely to toe the family line. I can see him not wanting his daughters testifying more out of self-preservation than protecting them. 

[JustEnough]

@nelliebelle1197 Thanks for the new thread! Just wanted to let you know this thread says thread 36 and so does the last one. 

[SorenaJ]

Does anyone have photos of Anna from the Nurthan wedding? Now I am curious about what she wore. 

[FleeJanaFree]

I still take Anna at her word (after the AM scandal, I think?) that she hasn’t divorced Josh even though she biblically can, because she made a promise to God , before Josh, in her vows to stay together forever. In her mind, she is honoring God, not Smuggar.
 

*I* still think it’s a bullshit reason to stay because she’s responsible for the safety  of 7! Kids, but I can understand her decision from that reasoning. 

I would not be surprised if she’s hoping he’ll go to jail so she can have a break from him and scandals. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

1 hour ago, Bassett Lady said:

 

I once had a toddler vomit all over me on a plane.

Yours or someone else's?

If memory serves Anna wore some kind of shapeless brown top and black skirt? to Nurie's wedding.

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, Bassett Lady said:

Anyone with small kids has had at least one experience of their clothing being rendered unwearable by the child. If the incident occurred just before the wedding, and she didn’t have any other clothes to wear, it makes sense. 

Yeah I get that - I used to work daycare - I kept a FULL change of clothes in my car and definitely needed them sometimes.

1 hour ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Bassett Lady You’re right; that is a risk with babies and toddlers. My sister and I hope to take our girls to Disney next summer (depending on the Covid situation). My kiddo will be 2.5. Thanks for the reminder to stick a change of clothes for both of us in my carry-on. 

Put anything at ALL you can't live without in your carry-on. I try to travel carry-on only, or at least make sure I can get by with ONLY what is in my carry-on. I've had my bag lost for several days twice AND had an extra day's stay in a random city from missing a connection. I pack a "capsule wardrobe" of things that can be combined in various ways.

Seriously. Checking a bag is like mailing your stuff to your destination, but less reliable. It might get there with you. It might take an extra 6 days while you are moving from hotel to air B&B in Paris and have no cell service so they can call and arrange to bring it to you. My suitcase has spent a lovely few days in London. I've never been there. (Tweeting the airline helps, I found.)

At the absolute minimum make sure you have a full change of clothes and any medications and such in your carry on. Also a good idea to cross-pack when traveling with others - put one of your outfits in your companion's suitcase, and one of theirs in yours. If the kid doesn't have their own suitcase split their stuff between yours. That way if one bag is lost at least you've got two outfits to alternate between. 

[Bassett Lady]

27 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Yours or someone else's?

Mine. 
 

I was traveling alone with my 23 month old son. He was a lap baby. I had a backpack/diaper bag/purse  as my only carryon item. I had gate checked his stroller and infant car seat. I had checked our suitcase. 
 

I had an extra outfit for the kiddo, but didn’t pack one for me. Lesson learned! 
 

After that I always packed a simple T-shirt dress, in a gallon ziplock bag, for me, just in case. 

It was the return flight and I had purchased a fragile gift while at my destination and so I didn’t have my regularly packed carryon. I was carrying a delicate, but useless, Christmas ornament instead of a change of clothes. 
 

I thought since I was headed home I was safe. I now know better.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bassett Lady

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

1. The ankle bracelet comment was intended to be humorous.

2. I agree those aren't crimes. However if JB continues to avoid the subpoena and refuses to show up to court and testify that is a contempt of court. Subpoenas are legal summons to court. Failing to obey one is a crime that can lead to a fine or jail time. Here is some more information about that According to that source, you don't have to be the suspect/target of the investigation to be charged with contempt of court.

@Jinderella

The point is that he first has to be served with the subpoena. He is not going to be found in contempt when he has not been served with the subpoena. You don’t face consequences for failure to appear until after you have actually been served with the complaint. The government will need to be able to provide a proof of service reflecting they have served him in a valid manner. I highly doubt that, after he is served, he will just ignore the subpoena. 

[Sops2]

Dwain Swanson ( Lauren's dad) may be called as a witness for the prosecution.

Had we heard of this possibility before? and what could be the reason for him being a witness ?

[luv2laugh]

8 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

Dwain Swanson ( Lauren's dad) may be called as a witness for the prosecution.

Had we heard of this possibility before? and what could be the reason for him being a witness ?

Wow. Where did you hear this?

[libgirl2]

14 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Yeah I get that - I used to work daycare - I kept a FULL change of clothes in my car and definitely needed them sometimes.

Put anything at ALL you can't live without in your carry-on. I try to travel carry-on only, or at least make sure I can get by with ONLY what is in my carry-on. I've had my bag lost for several days twice AND had an extra day's stay in a random city from missing a connection. I pack a "capsule wardrobe" of things that can be combined in various ways.

Seriously. Checking a bag is like mailing your stuff to your destination, but less reliable. It might get there with you. It might take an extra 6 days while you are moving from hotel to air B&B in Paris and have no cell service so they can call and arrange to bring it to you. My suitcase has spent a lovely few days in London. I've never been there. (Tweeting the airline helps, I found.)

At the absolute minimum make sure you have a full change of clothes and any medications and such in your carry on. Also a good idea to cross-pack when traveling with others - put one of your outfits in your companion's suitcase, and one of theirs in yours. If the kid doesn't have their own suitcase split their stuff between yours. That way if one bag is lost at least you've got two outfits to alternate between. 

The last time I went to visit relatives in the Dominican Republic, my plane had been delayed overnight in Miami (mechanical issue) and when I landed in DR, no luggage! When I got to my cousin's house she was on her way to a visitation for the relative of a friend who passed. Thank God I had on dressy black sweat pants, she gave my a black blazer and off we went. Luckily my luggage arrived the next day but I had been wearing that outfit for two days going on the third at that point. 

[Sops2]

7 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Wow. Where did you hear this?

A  woman called Crystal Lyn who attended the hearing and did a video on it. I saw it was posted  on Pickles facebook page ( blush, blush, admitting to looking at Pickles once in a while )

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Sops2
Facebook not web page