(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[breakfree]

16 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Dwain ‘The Rock’ Swanson and Matthew Waller are on the potential witness list, but neither have been subpoenaed to date. Only Boob and Bobeye Holt have.

I think it's possible these people might agree to testify without being subpoenaed, especially Dwain.

[onekidanddone]

Taking a ride on the speculation bus here: If some how Lauren’s dad is connected enough to testify, does it have anything to do with why Josiah and Lauren were married off to each other?

[Queen Of Hearts]

I think Anna is as big if an idiot as they come, but I feel like I need to defend her dress choice for court the other day.  I thought it was a pretty dress.  I would wear something similar if I was going to be visiting a court or needed to look dressed up or professional.  I am sure some of the choice of color is due to it hiding some perceived imperfections in her post baby body.  I love some good snark on these fools, but I don't understand why people are snarking on the dress.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Queen Of Hearts

[Sister Mozz]

1 hour ago, BlackberryGirl said:

I once babysat for a woman named Sandye. Yeah, wanted to pronounce it Sand eye.

I know someone named Glorye. I pronounce it "Glor-yee" in my head.

[kesmom]

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I am sure some of the choice of color is due to it hiding some perceived imperfections in her post baby body.  I love some good snark on these fools, but I don't understand why people are snarking on the dress.

Agreed. I had to buy clothes for a wedding at 2-3 weeks post partum and there just weren’t many options that fit well. 

[SassyPants]

I went to college with an Eve. First class of business 101 the teacher called her Eve, like it’s spelled, and she rudely corrected him. It’s Eve( sort e sound like Evelyn). 

[church_of_dog]

Wasn't there some talk about Josiah being "accused" by Josh, except that Josiah had the airtight alibi of having been at his child's birth on the day of the download?  I wonder if Lauren's dad might be a witness to Josiah's alibi?

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Jinderella said:

Bobye’s maidens name is Barenberg, so her family could be Dutch. In Dutch girls often [still) are named a short mans name with -je, meaning little x (Josje, Guusje, Dirkje). Her name could have been a variation of Bobje. Pronounciation would indeed be a bit like Kanye…

I knew it was Bob-yay! 

[Smoochie]

I actually like Anna's dress and is something I would wear. Here's where I had a little chuckle though, as far as modesty it's perfectly fine don't get me wrong, but, this is the family that had Michelle's knees blurred. I can see Anna's legs well above her knee!

Edited November 20, 2021 by Smoochie

[Alisamer]

10 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

It's got to be Bob-eye, like Popeye. 

That's not even remotely how you spell Bobby/Bobbie. If Bobeye wants people to pronounce her name like Bobby, she is free to change her name. She is an adult. Until then, I will pronounce it Bob-eye. 

Don't name your kids stupid shit. 

I’ve seen a few Bobbye s through my work. I think I’ve also seen a few other names that should end in “y” end in “ye”. I also want to say Bob-eye, but they are all women called “Bobby”.  I have no idea why the strange (to me) spelling. Most of the ones I’ve met are African-American women so I assumed it must be cultural and just made extra sure to pronounce it correctly. (These are ladies old enough that Kanye couldn’t have been an influence on their names.)
But yeah my brain wants to pronounce it Bob-eye just like my brain pronounces “Jinger” to rhyme with “ringer”.

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I had a student who was listed on my roster as Desire, so I pronounced it —Desire. She huffily informed me that her name was obviously Desiree. 

That happens a lot.  I think people tend to assume the “correct” pronunciation of their name is the one they are used to, even if it’s not how most other people would read the name.  In anyone over the age of 15, I see it as a type of self-centeredness.

Both my name and last name are unusual and open to more than one pronunciation.  Even worse, the spell-checkers like to change my last name to something else, and some people end up calling me by this last name.  I joke about it and correct people when appropriate, but I don’t get offended.  (As for Starbucks and other places where my name is going to be called, I use a nickname they can’t possibly get wrong.)

As for Bobye, I think the explanation that it may be a variant of Bobje makes sense, but I bet she gets called Bobbie a lot. 😉

[Coconut Flan]

4 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I love some good snark on these fools, but I don't understand why people are snarking on the dress.

It's the sheer panels I suspect.  They make it more of a cocktail dress than a court or funeral dress.  I'm guessing that either in the store light they didn't look as sheer as in natural light or the person selecting the dress didn't quite get how it would look on Anna and how much leg would be exposed.  On most people it wouldn't matter, but on a Duggar going to court, it's more suspect.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Coconut Flan

[Snarkasarus Rex]

4 hours ago, breakfree said:

I think it's possible these people might agree to testify without being subpoenaed, especially Dwain.

I don't get why people think why the Swansons are estranged from the Duggars.  There is no evidence to suggest it, and the families have been close for many years (Dwain's ministry partner is Meechelle's nephew).  Dwain was peeped at Boob's event on Tuesday, and both Lauren and her sister Lily were in Hannah Reber's bridal party...with Lauren standing next to Josie in some of the pics.

For sure, I bet Lauren doesn't like Josh, and her sudden deleting spree is probably related to the trial, but that doesn't mean they're 'breaking away'. 

 

[3KidsAndStopped]

5 hours ago, Hane said:

No, it doesn’t. It means “Son of Matthew.” One source I encountered said it meant “Son of Maud.”

It means both

[breakfree]

30 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I don't get why people think why the Swansons are estranged from the Duggars.  There is no evidence to suggest it, and the families have been close for many years (Dwain's ministry partner is Meechelle's nephew).  Dwain was peeped at Boob's event on Tuesday, and both Lauren and her sister Lily were in Hannah Reber's bridal party...with Lauren standing next to Josie in some of the pics.

For sure, I bet Lauren doesn't like Josh, and her sudden deleting spree is probably related to the trial, but that doesn't mean they're 'breaking away'. 

 

The Swansons are fundie, there is no hope of breaking away on the part of Lauren's parents, but not all fundies consider child molestation and pedophelia on par with all other sins (go check Zuzu Anderson's rants about irredemable reprobates on FB if you want a definite real example, but even Jinger and Jeremy seem to have tried to position themselves this way).

 

I don't find it hard to believe that the grandfather of a young girl who knew for a fact that someone was lusting after that girl and unsafe for her to be around might testify to that.

The Swansons also seem marginally more 'with it' than the Duggars based on the footage we have seen. Note that I say marginally but marginally may be enough to believe pedophelia is wrong and people who engage with it should be in jail. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

2 minutes ago, breakfree said:

The Swansons are fundie, there is no hope of breaking away on the part of Lauren's parents, but not all fundies consider child molestation and pedophelia on par with all other sins (go check Zuzu Anderson's rants about irredemable reprobates on FB if you want a definite real example, but even Jinger and Jeremy seem to have tried to position themselves this way).

Dwain married Lauren off to Josiah knowing full well that Josh molested his sisters, one of them a 5yo, as a teen. Lauren was old enough to know about it as well.

3 minutes ago, breakfree said:

I don't find it hard to believe that the grandfather of a young girl who knew for a fact that someone was lusting after that girl and unsafe for her to be around might testify to that.

How exactly would Dwain 'know this for a fact'?  

I think it's most likely that Dwain is on the witness list because he might be able to corroborate Josiah's alibi, assuming the defense even goes there. 

[AprilQuilt]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I went to college with an Eve. First class of business 101 the teacher called her Eve, like it’s spelled, and she rudely corrected him. It’s Eve( sort e sound like Evelyn). 

This is the French pronunciation.

[EmCatlyn]

Re: Meaning of Madyson.

Most names have more than one possible meaning because names with one meaning or set of associations get merged with other names that sound the same. In addition, the way names or appellations are turned into family names and back again into personal names can add another possible confusion. (An appellation is a name by which a person is known—Phillip the Handsome. Juana the Mad. Jack the Ripper. Josh the Pest.)

“Maud” was originally a Germanic appellation (or appellative) meaning “powerful battler.”  As often happened, it eventually evolves into a surname.  (It is still a surname.) From there it becomes a personal name. 

 “Maudison” would be the son of Maud, but it is unclear whether it was meant to evoke the powerful battler or just a parent named Maud.  The name was probably first used as an appellative (Maud’s son) then became a family name then became a personal name. 

 In any case, Madison (and Madyson) seem to come from Maudison.

The female form of the name was written as Maude or Maud in the Middle Ages, but to make it more confusing, it was considered a version of Matilda (or Mathilda or Mathhilde or some other variants) which is also of Germanic origin and is also used to identify a person powerful in battle.  It appears that some people in Medieval England would write “Mathilda” but pronounce it “Maud.” 🙄

Although “Matthew” is rooted in Hebrew, the similarity in sound between versions of “Mathilde” and “Matthew” (For example “Matilde” and “Mattias”) lead some people to see Maud/Mathilda as a female version of Matthew.  Then too, “Matt’s Son” can become “Madison.”

If you want to dig deeper you can connect Maud with Maudlyn which is a version of Magdalen and therefore a version of Madeline.

However, I don’t think Anna was thinking of any of these things.  I bet she just liked the sound of the name. 😉  

Whether or not she gave a thought to Ashley Madison, I don’t know.  But I am kind of feeling we have   poor Madyson’s name. 

[AprilQuilt]

On 11/19/2021 at 8:20 PM, FleeJanaFree said:

I still take Anna at her word (after the AM scandal, I think?) that she hasn’t divorced Josh even though she biblically can, because she made a promise to God , before Josh, in her vows to stay together forever. In her mind, she is honoring God, not Smuggar.
 

*I* still think it’s a bullshit reason to stay because she’s responsible for the safety  of 7! Kids, but I can understand her decision from that reasoning. 

I would not be surprised if she’s hoping he’ll go to jail so she can have a break from him and scandals. 

I agree with this. She made a vow to God to be Josh's wife. 'What God has joined together, let no man put asunder' and all that. In her mind, it's not for her to decide when her marriage is over, her marriage will never be over.

My partner's grandmother died a few years ago and in his eulogy for her, one of her sons talked a lot about her second husband. She'd been widowed quite young and married him when her children were teens/adults. According to the son she knew immediately she'd made a huge mistake. He was a bully, financially and emotionally abusive at the very least, prevented her from doing many of the things that brought her joy, he kept her from her children and grandchildren, he was an alcoholic while she was teetotal, he groped one of her daughters-in-law on the wedding day. He made her life miserable for 20 years and decimated her as a person.

My partner's uncle is a very mild, balanced person but he did not hold back in expressing his disgust and in his choice of language. He hated that guy and how much he stole from his mother. But he held up all her misery as an example of what an extraordinary Christian she was, for staying married even though she hated every minute of it and knew that her husband was objectively a shitbag. Because it was her duty to do so: it was her pact with God. Other people might waver from the course but not our Gertie, nope, she was stalwart to the end because she knew it was the Christian thing to do. It's mindblowing. But Anna will categorically be of this mind too. It's how she was raised, and leaving Josh is a level of defiance, even heresy, way beyond her imagining.

Edited November 20, 2021 by AprilQuilt

[Satan'sFortress]

Spoiler

I don't really care about the dress one way or the other, but I was surprised at how Nike it seemed.  In this photo, I thought she had short-shorts on---or some kind of romper. Those mesh stripes go up pretty high for a virtuous Duggar woman.

[AprilQuilt]

I guess if Bobye Holt is being brought as a witness, it could confirm that the Kellers did know about Josh's abuse of his sisters. Either JB ran these fact by the Holts too, when Josh was courting their daughter, or they discovered it somehow. The courtship could have broken down because of it, or they might not have minded it at all - but however JB proceeded with the Holts, he probably did much the same with the Kellers.

Dwain The Rock Swanson might have been aware of the CSAM via his connection to Josiah in some way, who also worked at the car lot. With the Wallers involved as well, this whole episode must have reeeeeallly put the cat among the pigeons in fundie-land - it must be quite hard to remain unpartisan when these big families are all testifying or trying to avoid testifying, in one direction or another. It's going to be a tense Christmas.

[AussieKrissy]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I went to college with an Eve. First class of business 101 the teacher called her Eve, like it’s spelled, and she rudely corrected him. It’s Eve( sort e sound like Evelyn). 

Stupid then it should be Ev 

and why be rude. She would have had it her whole life so go and snap at your parents for being twits. 
accept that your name is read by 99 percent of the population one way so be resigned and polite. People are idjits. 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I don't get why people think why the Swansons are estranged from the Duggars.  There is no evidence to suggest it, and the families have been close for many years (Dwain's ministry partner is Meechelle's nephew).  Dwain was peeped at Boob's event on Tuesday, and both Lauren and her sister Lily were in Hannah Reber's bridal party...with Lauren standing next to Josie in some of the pics.

For sure, I bet Lauren doesn't like Josh, and her sudden deleting spree is probably related to the trial, but that doesn't mean they're 'breaking away'. 

 

Oh where did you see the pics? 

[LanaBanana]

4 hours ago, church_of_dog said:

Wasn't there some talk about Josiah being "accused" by Josh, except that Josiah had the airtight alibi of having been at his child's birth on the day of the download?  I wonder if Lauren's dad might be a witness to Josiah's alibi?

 

I keep seeing this brought up, but there's no proof Josh ever accused Josiah (or any of his brothers) of being the ones that downloaded CSA. Legal filings show that the the other three people that had access to car lot were William Mize, Joshua Williams, and Randall Berry (one of whom apparently had a criminal past). We don't even know if any other Duggar kids were working at that particular car lot.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

21 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Oh where did you see the pics? 

There are several pics of the political event on the Duggars’ Facebook page. A couple of the wedding pics are on gabenatorfilms IG story.