(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[IrishCarrie]

I really think you guys are being over-optimistic abut the length of sentence Josh will get. I mean, the charges are horrific and I completely agree he should be locked away for a long time, but given that this'll be first criminal conviction and it's a non-contact offence, wouldn't two or three years be about the norm??

(I hold my hands up that I'm basing this opinion on very little knowledge of the American criminal justice system! - I'm thinking of similar cases in Ireland and the UK) 

Which in Anna-terms is probably nowhere near long enough for her to get her act together and move on; three years goes faaaaasssst.....

😒

Edited November 26, 2021 by IrishCarrie
Typos...

[SassyPants]

I wonder how much physical day to day help Anna gets from the big house? Is Jana forced to step in FT? The other kids(girls) are still in school. I’m betting with the cameras gone and no attention and $$$ being derived, Michelle and JB personally do very little beyond the financial support, which for a family that size is huuuuge. BC (permanent or otherwise) would have been a better choice for ALL concerned. 

[SPHASH]

Off topic but Ghislaine Maxwell's trial starts on Monday.  Two trials now to follow.

[Mela99]

I really think you guys are being over-optimistic abut the length of sentence Josh will get. I mean, the charges are horrific and I completely agree he should be locked away for a long time, but given that this'll be first criminal conviction and it's a non-contact offence, wouldn't two or three years be about the norm??
(I hold my hands up that I'm basing this opinion on very little knowledge of the American criminal justice system! - I'm thinking of similar cases in Ireland and the UK) 
Which in Anna-terms is probably nowhere near long enough for her to get her act together and move on; three years goes faaaaasssst.....
[emoji19]

Not with this kind of offense, no. I’m not saying he’s going away for forty years but I would guess in the 5-10 year range.

[Ilovebrownies]

Purely a guess of course, but the plea deal was for 10 years so he is unlikely to get less than that.  

 

Any assets that have been put in Anna’s name should be sold by her and she could take off.  

Edited November 26, 2021 by Ilovebrownies

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Ilovebrownies said:

Purely a guess of course, but the plea deal was for 10 years so he is unlikely to get less than that.  

 

Any assets that have been put in Anna’s name should be sold by her and she could take off.  

There are likely zero sizable assets in Anna’s name. Where screwing people financially is concerned, JB is Einstein. 

[Ilovebrownies]

There is some land, probably not worth much but it’s something

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

53 minutes ago, Ilovebrownies said:

Purely a guess of course, but the plea deal was for 10 years so he is unlikely to get less than that.  

I think a lot of us are assuming he'll get more time because of it, but I haven't been able to find the official source for this 10 year deal. It seems high when you consider the judge's sentences in this district for cases similar to Josh's are lower than 10 years. I don't see how this offer would be enticing to him, aside from the fact that he'd not have to go to trial.

57 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

There are likely zero sizable assets in Anna’s name. Where screwing people financially is concerned, JB is Einstein. 

Yes, no way will he allow Anna to end up with anything.

[EmCatlyn]

54 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

There are likely zero sizable assets in Anna’s name. Where screwing people financially is concerned, JB is Einstein. 

Don’t disagree that JB is very controlling, but there is property in Anna’s name.  What the value or condition of that property may be, we can only guess.

As for Anna selling anything that is in her name and getting away, that is not very likely.  She doesn’t see the world and her own situation the way we do. She doesn’t want to escape, she wants a miracle to happen and “fix things.”

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

We don't know how things were before the molestations/Ashley Madison but since then it had to be very hard to deal with the lack of trust and worry about what he was up to.  For six years, that had to be exhausting.  She might find that with him in jail, she doesn't have to worry about any of that and how freeing that is.   She doesn't know that now, only time with him away will give her that.

Pure speculation here, but Anna may have been putting a lot of effort into securing Josh's affections then watching his reactions.  If he's in prison she may lose whatever sense of control she thinks she has.  Will he attract non-fundie pen pals?  Will he decide, while he's away from Anna and the kids, that he doesn't want to return to life with them?  He has repeatedly proven that he's been willing to take chances for some diversion while she - on the surface, anyway - has appeared to remain devoted.  She might not feel more comfortable if he's away, even it's behind bars.

[Maggie Mae]

I wonder, if Josh is transferred out of state, will Anna follow? That's the kind of catalyst she needs - physical separation from Josh (and his controlling, abusive ass) and Josh's enmeshed and frankly weird family. The only way I can see Anna leaving him is if she is forced to spend a substantial amount of time away from the TTH, with all of her kids, while Josh is locked up. Especially if JB/Meech show their true colors and downgrade Anna and fam. Being away from the family would give her the opportunity to make a friend, and she will need a friend. 

 

[Antimony]

32 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Don’t disagree that JB is very controlling, but there is property in Anna’s name.  What the value or condition of that property may be, we can only guess.

As for Anna selling anything that is in her name and getting away, that is not very likely.  She doesn’t see the world and her own situation the way we do. She doesn’t want to escape, she wants a miracle to happen and “fix things.”

I agree that Anna doesn't want to escape, and the motivators for her to do so aren't there yet -- she's most stable staying, financially. (Not morally, but we all know that). There are for sure assets in her name and I think we've had official confirmation. 

If she can't get to them, though, I wouldn't be surprised. It'd be like "financial abuse 101" to get her to accept assets and then obscure from her the process or information needed to access those assets. Hide the paperwork, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of sensitive information was kept in a lockbox she can't get into. I have no evidence, it just wouldn't be unusual in their culture and it would be a really common abuse tactic. But, then again, why bother with all that if she doesn't want to leave? Could be a mix of both, but my bet is she has plenty that she's happy to hold for the Duggars but also she would find it difficult to assess or access to those assets by herself. 

[Jackie3]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:58 PM, libgirl2 said:

 If she loved her kids so much, she would walk over glass or hot coals for them. 

I felt the same way about Brenda Willis, yet she garnered tons of sympathy. And she behaved even worse, because she knew her kids were being abused. Her kids asked her for help, and she turned away.  In Anna's case, there's no evidence Anna's kids have been harmed. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Jackie3

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Jackie3 said:

I felt the same way about Brenda Willis, yet she garnered tons of sympathy. And she behaved even worse, because she knew her kids were being abused. Her kids asked her for help, and she turned away.  In Anna's case, there's no evidence Anna's kids have been harmed. 

Physically, at least. No way is that an emotionally healthy environment. The oldest M is 12. She knows enough about her dad. A 12 YO would have some understanding that her dad’s behavior prevent him from being home with the family. 

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

I wonder, if Josh is transferred out of state, will Anna follow? That's the kind of catalyst she needs - physical separation from Josh (and his controlling, abusive ass) and Josh's enmeshed and frankly weird family. The only way I can see Anna leaving him is if she is forced to spend a substantial amount of time away from the TTH, with all of her kids, while Josh is locked up. Especially if JB/Meech show their true colors and downgrade Anna and fam. Being away from the family would give her the opportunity to make a friend, and she will need a friend. 

 

There are enough pilots in the family, she could easily travel out of state to visit Josh. I can’t see JB giving up day to day control of her and the M kids

[ifosterkittens]

This is all based on memory, so I could be wrong. I believe one of the charges carries a five year minimum sentence. 

Also based on memory Scott Reisch did a video on the possible sentencing, and both of the charges fall in the same sentencing parameters. On one charge if Josh pleaded guilty the guideline was 7.5-9 years, and if he was found guilty at trial was 9.5-11 years. Scott said if Josh were to take a plea he would likely only be charged with one of the two crimes, the other would be dropped. Josh's lawyers would argue for less time (less than 7.5 years) because he is a small business owner and that benefits the community, and he is a father, and it is a burden on his family for him to be away. Now Scott thought given the nature of the crimes arguing he is a father might not work in his favor. 

Scott said most federal judges follow the sentencing guidelines, and if they deviate they thoroughly explain why they didn't follow the guidelines. If Josh goes to trial and is found guilty on both charges I do not know would he be sentenced consecutively (back to back) or concurrently (at the same time). My hope is consecutive so 9.5 + 9.5 x 85%= 16.15 year. With federal cases you have to serve 85% percent of your sentence. 

There are also possible financial fines, but I haven't heard anyone explain how that works. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

52 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Physically, at least. No way is that an emotionally healthy environment. The oldest M is 12. She knows enough about her dad. A 12 YO would have some understanding that her dad’s behavior prevent him from being home with the family. 

I wonder what they've told Josh's older kids and youngest sisters. If one of them knows something, the others will find out. My guess is that they've stalled having to say much for now. Dad/Josh is staying with the Rebers to help them out with some projects, or some other vague story. Once he's in prison though they'll be no hiding that fact. Then he'll become a political prisoner of those evil liberals, the ones Daddy/Grandpa is bravely trying to fight by joining the Arkansas Senate.  

 

[Idlewild]

Anna’s kids don’t go to school and I doubt any have internet access that’s not rigidly restricted. Josh’s absence from their home is probably explained away like the father’s absence in the Railway Children - ‘good person that bad people are trying to bring down’. 
There, now I’ve sullied one of my favourite childhood films with an image of Josh. Jenny Agutter gasping ‘Daddy, oh my Daddy’ through the train steam still makes me cry. 

[Tatar-tot]

If Josh is sentenced to jail where would he end up?  I assume he is not going low- medium security.  Any ideas?

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

7 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

If Josh is sentenced to jail where would he end up?  I assume he is not going low- medium security.  Any ideas?

CP convicts go to medium. There is one Federal medium in Arkansas, but I wonder if they'd send him out of state given how well his family is known there as opposed to other places. They do need to try to keep him reasonably well and alive, after all. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Unpopular Opinion: I don't expect the Duggars to defend Josh if he's convicted. I think once the trial happens and he's convicted his family will publicly turn on him a little. JB hired lawyers to try to make it go away, but I don't think they'll be successful. They're already trying to distance themselves. They were out driving around the country during some of the motions, as opposed to being in the court room. Both JB/Michelle and Jessa/Ben made statements referring to "Josh, Anna and their family", as opposed to referring to them as our family. The trial will bring a lot of ugly things to light. I expect the whole family may try to distance themselves after he goes to prison.

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Anna’s kids don’t go to school and I doubt any have internet access that’s not rigidly restricted. Josh’s absence from their home is probably explained away like the father’s absence in the Railway Children - ‘good person that bad people are trying to bring down’. 

Those kids go to the big house. There's all those people there, all those uncles and aunt, all of them talking. Kids overhear things, or their teenage aunts tell them "secrets. It's not like 2 or 3 people know about Josh. Dozens of Duggars know about him. Those kids have heard enough bits and pieces so that at least the older ones know that their father is accused of doing something bad and may go to jail.

[ven]

I second what a previous poster said, anna send josh of to jail with a smile and a kiss, uses the free housing , money's , childcare and stays astay at home mom, and walks away in 10 years when he is about to get out with grown kids. Middle finger centered. 

 

* i have been a fulltime  working single mom for years, trust me , you cannot care for 8 children alone, i repeat you can't!!!* you need heaps of cash or heaps of help. Anna has both , she better plan this like a smart girl.

[Hazelbunny]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Anna’s kids don’t go to school and I doubt any have internet access that’s not rigidly restricted. Josh’s absence from their home is probably explained away like the father’s absence in the Railway Children - ‘good person that bad people are trying to bring down’. 
There, now I’ve sullied one of my favourite childhood films with an image of Josh. Jenny Agutter gasping ‘Daddy, oh my Daddy’ through the train steam still makes me cry. 

Noooo - PLEASE don't spoil "The Railway Children"!!! I LOVE that film! I don't want to connect it with the Pest in any way!! 

I agree - that scene with the father coming home has me tearing up every time, too!! (And I am usually a cold hearted bitch where films are cncerned... so I've been told )

[Audrey2]

4 hours ago, Dandruff said:

.  Will he attract non-fundie pen pals?  Will he decide, while he's away from Anna and the kids, that he doesn't want to return to life with them? 

Now there's a crossover for you- Josh Duggar gets a pen pal and appears on Love after Lockup. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Audrey2