Remnant Fellowship 20: Popping Popcorn, Waiting for the Bewigged Tiger King....

[TDHuggies]

The incredible amount of irony almost makes me go back to being a true believer in a supreme being or at least karma.

Case in point- big part of this story is Delaney. The parent’s anguish was so palpable and devastating…so to have their daughter’s wedding day be the day the plane goes down…if that was a fictional story people would complain it’s too contrived!

Also the whole issue with Gwen getting divorced - so wrong to make women feel trapped in bad marriages. Period. But then get a divorce herself…the irony of the amount of destruction caused by her decision/Joe…well it’s almost biblical! Not only was her trust in Joe misplaced and ended up costing her her life but his behavior toward his ex and daughter have caused immense bad press and harm to RF. 

The “signs” are there of God’s displeasure and they are all about “signs”. I don’t know how they can keep buying into the RF perfectionism ideal. The amount of cognitive dissonance is impressive. If you are a member there still, please open your eyes!

Edited October 3, 2021 by TDHuggies

[Xan]

The cult of personality has an interesting "live by the sword, die by the sword" feeling to it.  If you make a cult just about yourself and you have to be the one making all the decisions, when you go, the cult goes too.  If Gwen had let other people do major services and make videos, there'd be a fallback.  She couldn't release the reins of power and now no one is able to just step in and lead.  Maybe she thought she'd live to old age and could plan for her cult continuance at some later time.  She just wasn't ready to let anyone else have major input or control.  

19 minutes ago, TDHuggies said:

The “signs” are there of God’s displeasure and they are all about “signs”. I don’t know how they can keep buying into the RF perfectionism ideal. The amount of cognitive dissonance is impressive. If you are a member there still, please open your eyes!

I agree.  Gwen made everything that happened be a sign from God.  If the RF members believe that, surely they must be thinking that the accident meant that He was displeased with the way things were going.  Hopefully, more will break free.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Long before Gwen died we here at FJ did speculate who would take over. We all expected Gwen to at least live into her 70s. So my speculation was Grace Hannah. She would be in her 20s or more by the time Gwen was gone. And I always figured they would allow her to speak or take in some responsibilities. That way she could be groomed for years to take over. I said this because Gwen is so mentally abusive, that her children just couldn’t handle a position of power. She’s harmed them too much. Even though she has a lot of influence over her grandchildren, she did not directly raise them. That’s why I would imagine they are only slightly better off than Michael and Elizabeth. But the problem now is Grace is way too young. All the grandchildren are way too young. Even if one of them is a Gwen clone with charisma and self confidence galore. She’s just too young. And there’s the biggest issue. Like a monarchy, children can’t fully rule. They would need a regent. And I have no idea who that would be. 

[SayonaraLara]

1 hour ago, TDHuggies said:

The incredible amount of irony almost makes me go back to being a true believer in a supreme being or at least karma.

Case in point- big part of this story is Delaney. The parent’s anguish was so palpable and devastating…so to have their daughter’s wedding day be the day the plane goes down…if that was a fictional story people would complain it’s too contrived!

Also the whole issue with Gwen getting divorced - so wrong to make women feel trapped in bad marriages. Period. But then get a divorce herself…the irony of the amount of destruction caused by her decision/Joe…well it’s almost biblical! Not only was her trust in Joe misplaced and ended up costing her her life but his behavior toward his ex and daughter have caused immense bad press and harm to RF. 

The “signs” are there of God’s displeasure and they are all about “signs”. I don’t know how they can keep buying into the RF perfectionism ideal. The amount of cognitive dissonance is impressive. If you are a member there still, please open your eyes!

Thank you so much for putting my very jumbled thoughts into the most perfect words!

In the end, Gwen was literally and fantastically brought down by a combination of her problematic relationship, her materialism and her ego! On the very day that tortured parents would see their girl marry into the now-shaken cult! Thus freeing Joe’s daughter from Remnant clutches to live with her loving, long-suffering mother! Coinciding with the planned release of a documentary dramatically outting all Gwen’s secrets and shining light on contemptible behavior — all committed in God’s name!

Like Gwen would say, God’s timing is perfect. And I would agree.

Edited October 3, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[Animosus]

17 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

Looks like Remnant cancelled this weekend's service.  It was just cancelled earlier today (was supposed to be at 5pm).   

lol

What Michael and Elizabeth are doing are the EXACT opposite of leading. They are practically no shows for 4 months and now this. That's not leading... that hiding and retreating.   At their most pivotal 'hour' (these past 4 months and especially now), they are practically nowhere to be seen.  

The one thing that is known, is that Remnant Fellowship works overtime to protect their organization from negative social media.  I think there are those who definitely watched "The Way Down".  After watching, I imagine there has to be concern about Michael's mental health and a possible danger he poses to the church.  Especially if it is being said that he used to shoot at the church at night.  His marriage also may be imploding, and if so, I can understand why neither he nor his wife may want to show up at church acting as though all is well after the documentary.  

[TDHuggies]

18 minutes ago, SayonaraLara said:

Like Gwen would say, God’s timing is perfect. And I would agree.

Lol THIS is brilliant! ❤️😁

[TDHuggies]

14 minutes ago, Animosus said:

The one thing that is known, is that Remnant Fellowship works overtime to protect their organization from negative social media.  I think there are those who definitely watched "The Way Down".  After watching, I imagine there has to be concern about Michael's mental health and a possible danger he poses to the church.  Especially if it is being said that he used to shoot at the church at night.  His marriage also may be imploding, and if so, I can understand why neither he nor his wife may want to show up at church acting as though all is well after the documentary.  

From what I’ve heard it was a last minute cancellation. I am SO curious exactly what is going on.

Oh to be a fly in the wall for some of these marketing/strategy sessions…I wonder how many of the remaining leadership is understanding that the damage of Gwen dying due to her own hypocrisy, the VERY well put together documentary, the revelations from ex members and the strength/outspokenness of Natasha will likely be terminal to the “church” continuing.

There may be a few hundred faithful that continue on but I don’t see them keeping enough people to keep the financial end going.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I think it's possible that Gwen didn't plan for succession because she didn't care if RF went on after her passing.  She had money, power, ego stroking, worship from her believers as a prophet. She was ultimate authority figure; everyone was under authority to her.  . She had complete control over Every. Thing. and Every. One. here and now for the rest of her life.  She could live it up, enjoy the fruits of her cult grift and not worry about the future.

I also think it's possible that the Angers & Days voluntarily left RF Leadership. Maybe they saw the writing on the wall with Gwen and Joe, Stepping away from public leadership would make it easier to quietly leave RF when they sensed the time is right.  I've always though it very telling that the Angers don't sell real estate for BH Properties. 

[bffyly]

3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I also think it's possible that the Angers & Days voluntarily left RF Leadership. Maybe they saw the writing on the wall with Gwen and Joe, Stepping away from public leadership would make it easier to quietly leave RF when they sensed the time is right.  I've always though it very telling that the Angers don't sell real estate for BH Properties. 

I agree. I also wonder if the Angers aren’t setting themselves up to be financially free of RF (the Days probably don’t need the financial ties). The Angers have a daughter who is clearly overweight (not dissing at all, just observing). I wonder if that doesn’t soften their hearts some. 

[treemom]

There is a wedding tonight.  Is that the first event/service since the doc came out?

[rabbitholejulie]

The biggest revelation in the documentary was that Joe Lara was a grifter who never had a real job.  Marrying Gwen was truly the acting gig of a lifetime.  I wonder what their relationship was like behind the scenes- in the later videos he looked zoned/bored/checked out.  My guess is that Gwen had figured out that he was in it for the lifestyle.  And he figured out that pretending to love Gwen and RF wasn't worth it...

[RFCult72]

2 minutes ago, rabbitholejulie said:

The biggest revelation in the documentary was that Joe Lara was a grifter who never had a real job.  Marrying Gwen was truly the acting gig of a lifetime.  I wonder what their relationship was like behind the scenes- in the later videos he looked zoned/bored/checked out.  My guess is that Gwen had figured out that he was in it for the lifestyle.  And he figured out that pretending to love Gwen and RF wasn't worth it...

I noticed the same thing too!!!

[treemom]

So rereading the threads in light of the documentary is interesting.  For those like me, who don’t mind a deep dive.  It appears Delaney’s family told us their story in the first thread.  If not her family, then someone who has a story very similar to it.

 

there is even more context in the posts there and it is even more disturbing.  They start here.  

 

[MomJeans]

I truly think Gwen thought Elizabeth would take over in her absence, but never thought her end would come so soon, or that Elizabeth would suffer another tragedy in the process. In the very beginning she likely favored Michael.  By the time of her death, I don't think Gwen harbored any illusions over her son's feelings about the cult. 

I have mixed feelings about Elizabeth. I greatly pity the terrible things that have happened to her.  But I do think she's a true believer in a lot of the problematic beliefs her mother espoused. 

After watching the documentary parts about Michael and seeing recent pictures of Elizabeth, I think Gwen absolutely destroyed her own kids. 

[Animosus]

Did anyone notice on S1 E3 of "The Way Down" at 17:19, the attorney asks Gwen, "You think if you lie for God's Sake its OK?" and she says, "I believe that if God calls you to, that you had better protect Jerusalem.  There's so many cases in here (points to bible) where uh people did that very thing to protect Jerusalem.  And so, they were rewarded"   

If that wasn't taken out of context from the producers of the file, that tells us so much about Gwen's mentality.  She basically convinced herself that it was OK to lie to protect HER Jerusalem (Remnant Fellowship) and to protect anything else under her dominion I would guess.

[Tatar-tot]

My biggest take away from the HBO Special was what a creeper LARA is…..file a false police report your ex was sexually abusing your child???  Who does shit like that?  He is so weird.  

[freethemall]

2 hours ago, rabbitholejulie said:

The biggest revelation in the documentary was that Joe Lara was a grifter who never had a real job.  Marrying Gwen was truly the acting gig of a lifetime.  I wonder what their relationship was like behind the scenes- in the later videos he looked zoned/bored/checked out.  My guess is that Gwen had figured out that he was in it for the lifestyle.  And he figured out that pretending to love Gwen and RF wasn't worth it...

I guess I always suspected he was a grifter,  so the biggest revelation to me is that he was always as pure evil as Gwen - the false sexual abuse allegation of the mother of his child is truly despicable. 

Watching this (I finished the first 2), I'm sad for how horrifically those 2 died, but I truly think it's for the best they are no longer around to cause so much suffering as they did to other people.

Shame about Brandon Hannah and the others though. The footage on Elizabeth and Michael in the doc is really fascinating. She used to be so bubbly, and I had no idea her baby died.

[Baxsmom]

1 hour ago, MomJeans said:

I truly think Gwen thought Elizabeth would take over in her absence, but never thought her end would come so soon, or that Elizabeth would suffer another tragedy in the process. In the very beginning she likely favored Michael.  By the time of her death, I don't think Gwen harbored any illusions over her son's feelings about the cult. 

I have mixed feelings about Elizabeth. I greatly pity the terrible things that have happened to her.  But I do think she's a true believer in a lot of the problematic beliefs her mother espoused. 

After watching the documentary parts about Michael and seeing recent pictures of Elizabeth, I think Gwen absolutely destroyed her own kids. 

Do you think Elizabeth could be as mean as Gwen? 

[Mela99]

So Delaney is still in deep and cut off her parents?

[Destiny]

So Delaney is still in deep and cut off her parents?

As far as we know. She got married in either May or June to the guy whose name I have forgotten. Her parents WERE there though.

[MomJeans]

50 minutes ago, Baxsmom said:

Do you think Elizabeth could be as mean as Gwen? 

If she's a true believer in the authority doctrine Gwen preached, she absolutely could be. She may not choose to go down the route, but I do think she backed her mother 100%, and that would include how her mother treated people.  

Preaching to people that they have to starve themselves certainly isn't kind. 

I feel about Gwen's kids they same way I feel about several of my own family members- they got a raw deal in life, and they have definitely suffered, but suffering doesn't give anyone a right to hurt others. 

Ever since the plane crash, I've hoped Elizabeth would leave the cult and get the mental healthcare she deserves, but I won't be surprised if instead she tries to emulate her mother in all ways. I can only hope she doesn't.  

Edited October 4, 2021 by MomJeans
typo

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, treemom said:

So rereading the threads in light of the documentary is interesting.  For those like me, who don’t mind a deep dive.  It appears Delaney’s family told us their story in the first thread.  If not her family, then someone who has a story very similar to it.

 

there is even more context in the posts there and it is even more disturbing.  They start here.  

 

To be honest, I think we were talking about RF and Gwen before any subreddits. Or at least we were talking about it more than other places on the internet. The people making the film came to this thread. So it’s not surprising that some folks who have participated in our thread would be interviewed by the documentary. 

[DietCherryCoke76]

1 hour ago, Baxsmom said:

Do you think Elizabeth could be as mean as Gwen? 

No way

 

[RFsurvivor]

1 hour ago, Baxsmom said:

Do you think Elizabeth could be as mean as Gwen? 

I think the potential is there. I think that over time and being so sure you are a prophet of God are what made Gwen meaner over the years. 

[Freedbygrace]

6 hours ago, bffyly said:

 The Angers have a daughter who is clearly overweight (not dissing at all, just observing). I wonder if that doesn’t soften their hearts some. 

I would certainly hope that this would soften them. It is difficult to see your child have to suffer as anyone who is overweight in RF goes through. However Tedd was so harsh to so many for so long - the documentary just touches on some of it - that it would take something amazing to change his heart. But if he can be saved out of RF there is hope for anybody