Remnant Fellowship 20: Popping Popcorn, Waiting for the Bewigged Tiger King....

[JermajestyDuggar]

I believe that most of the very large homes in Brentwood have been built in the last 30 years. Therefore actual plantations are probably harder to come by. That make Gwen extra extra special. Of course. 

[Destiny]

Mountview (the house owned by the Days) is an 1860 mansion (right across the street from Gwen's house Ashlawn). It's not a modern Southern thing, it's because both are historic mansions/plantations. I know Ashlawn was a plantation but I'm not sure about Mountview. Mountview has frequently been a venue for smaller RF wedding tho. 
There are a couple historic antebellum houses along Franklin road and all of them have names (Ashlawn, Isola Bella, and Mountview to name a few).

OH! That’s part of the problem. I was confusing the Day’s place with the one for sale! I’m over here going but it’s 20 years old!!! Okay! Now I get it. I still think they are pretentious, but slightly less so now.

[Alisamer]

If I had a big estate, new or not, I’d probably name it just because I could. It’s probably be something pop culture related or silly though to knock down some of the pretentiousness. 
I think with Gwen, it’s  safe to assume pretentiousness whether the house came with the name or not. 

[FeministShrew]

I’ve been lurking at work because my laptop died Monday & I couldn’t remember my password to log in on my phone. I finally broke down & bought an iPad.  I’m planning to watch the documentary on my day off Monday, but meanwhile my worlds collided. A friend of mine writes about television & films. He happened to see I was reading this thread & said he was going to be writing about The Way Down. He interviewed the director & said she mentioned FreeJinger (not in a bad way, but I haven’t had a chance to ask for details). He’s become fascinated by Gwen & Remnant. Like me, he’s not religious, but unlike me he didn’t grow up fundie lite/ borderline fundie. We’ve had some interesting conversations this week!

 https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/lifestyle/2021/09/30/marina-zenovich-discusses-the-way-down-docuseries-gwen-shamblin-lara-remnant-fellowship-hbo-max/5936192001/

[throwaway9988]

Has anyone heard things about how people in RF have taken the documentary?

[Rowan]

4 hours ago, Truth sets you free said:

The Walter’s home is now for sale: https://www.remax.com/tn/brentwood/home-details/910-calloway-dr-brentwood-tn-37027/6474221324687196738

 

Two cooktops and four ovens in the main kitchen and what looks like another stove/oven in the basement or an in-law type suite. For people who basically made a god out of a living skeleton and an idol out of not eating. Lovely. 

[RFfamANON]

7 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Has anyone heard things about how people in RF have taken the documentary?

My family has seen the trailer but not any of the episodes. They say:  “it’s all lies” &  “praying for Gwen’s family” 

[RFfamANON]

9 hours ago, FeministShrew said:

A friend of mine writes about television & films. He happened to see I was reading this thread & said he was going to be writing about The Way Down.

Props to your friend’s excellent description of Gwen: Gwen Shamblin Lara, a woman who could easily be written off as a zealot as severe as her signature hairstyles that give a whole new meaning to the expression “the higher the hair, the closer to God.” But her alleged sins run much deeper than a hairdo.

[ElleHouston]

Michael wanted a record deal so he left the church? His music wasn’t that good for a major record deal. 5% of his music was good. The other 95% of his music I laughed at. It was horrible! 

[nelliebelle1197]

21 hours ago, Baxsmom said:

Thanks!  I may.  I had forgotten so much until I started reading up on RF.

I love the snark.  Thank you!   I have been trying to get my ex-husband to jump on here and have a look.  He was raised Southern Baptist (his dad was a preacher).  Now he is out of the closet and a writer.  He wrote a play called Southern Baptist Sissies.  He was damaged but can use humor to move forward.  I will have to check out the Rodriques.  But the more I look at this women, the more I judge my super flat hair.  How do they do it?  

Thanks for the suggestion.  I have a lot of reading to do!

I would be super interested in your POV on Scientology because you were an outside insider. Totally different than the members who leave!

[Freedbygrace]

@FeministShrew thank you for sharing the article. It was good to hear from the director to say that there is a valuable purpose with the documentary, beyond just trying to get a bunch of viewers. This statement stood out to me:

“If we can help one person take that first step and realize they are in a cult and need to leave, then this whole thing was worth it,” Zenovich said.
 

As a former member that is my hope for the documentary. For my family, as well as many others who were in RF for a long time, it took a lot to open our eyes. This documentary can do that. 

[Freedbygrace]

23 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

.  Brentwood is fortunate that Gwen didn’t totally take over their political system.

  Reveal hidden contents

Yelm, WA - home of the Ramtha School of Enlightenment.

 

Gwen and RF made several attempts for political power. In the mid-2000s a member ran for Brentwood City Commissioner. He did not win and things came out of the campaign that backfired in RF. At that point many people who moved to town lived with another family for a while. Others in Brentwood discovered this and accused RF of trying to influence the election with these temporary residents. Eventually they passed a law limiting who could live with a Brentwood family. (We ended up keeping a couple of families for a while because we lived outside of Brentwood at the time.)

Another political activity was to oppose the extension of a street that would have run along the backside of the church property. This was successful and was regularly celebrated  as one of the ways God had blessed RF. 

[nelliebelle1197]

16 hours ago, Destiny said:

Is naming their houses a southern thing that i just don’t understand? ‘Cause to my decidedly not southern ear, it sounds pretentious as hell.

It was actually address of the house in many cases! My great-great grandfather's house was Turkey Creek and that served as the address along with the county and state. I have a few other examples in my family tree that still stand so I won't mention them

I even have a newspaper gossip article from the 1880s that mentions my great grandfather rushing up to Turkey Creek to mend fences after he escorted a different young lady to church!

There are plenty of named cottages and such up north as well, and of course all over Europe.

Edited October 2, 2021 by nelliebelle1197

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Freedbygrace said:

Gwen and RF made several attempts for political power. In the mid-2000s a member ran for Brentwood City Commissioner. He did not win and things came out of the campaign that backfired in RF.

So fortunate that RF has not been able to establish a political hegemony in Brentwood, unlike the Doug Wilson cult in Moscow, ID.

Hopefully, this RF documentary will put a real stop to any further attempts to do so.

[Baxsmom]

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I would be super interested in your POV on Scientology because you were an outside insider. Totally different than the members who leave!

These people worked under an umbrella called Sterling Management (Scientology owned).  I saw files on my work computer titled "what to do in case of an FBI raid", emails warning that not enough employees were signed up for courses and the best was the "chit" the owner got for being late to a class at the big scientology celebrity building.  A "chit" for an adult.  CRAZY.

I really needed the job so it was survival.  In the end when I left for a higher paying job the owner practically cried and I told her, I am just doing what you taught me.  Go for the money no matter who you hurt. 

There is so much more.  Since this is an RF thread I want to be respectful, but I can see the things that Scientology and RF have in common.  The fear and control, leadership thinking they are better then everyone else and the damaging of lives.  It breaks my heart.  

[hoipolloi]

21 minutes ago, Baxsmom said:

Since this is an RF thread I want to be respectful, but I can see the things that Scientology and RF have in common

Yes, because they are cults as is the CREC complex of churches & schools controlled by Doug Wilson. They have a number of characteristics in common:

Quote

 

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

2. A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.

3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

 

 

[Willow]

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gwen was a trump supporter and that means the cult members are too. They probably know what his base will respond to. And evangelical Christians voted for trump in 2020. 

Wellppp, I was in RF for 5+ years recently and was then and am still a solid Blue. Did I fit in on the politics? No. Did it really matter then? No. But it seems that it does matter more these days. Although there are still some Dems in RF. (You can see it from their FBs around/after elections.) How did I --- do they --- live with the disconnect? By wanting to be part of "the kingdom of love". 

[Marmion]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:32 PM, SilverBeach said:

I read that BS RF response, which is right out of the Scientology playbook. It's all lies, they say! There's nothing bad about RF or Gwen! It's a perfect organization that has done nothing but good! Excuse me while I go vomit. If it wasn't clear before that RF is a cult, this response makes it obvious. There is never any valid criticism of a cult, they are just perfect in their very distorted opinion. RF can't fall fast enough

This claim is based upon a Dan Gryder video , so people here can take that for what it's worth , but I have heard that Gwen actually did consult with a Scientology leader on how to best handle matters pertaining to her own cult .  @22:52 of this recent video of his .  

Spoiler

 

The most that I could find out about such a connection were articles such as these , which I shall link below , for reference .  As it turns out , both Remnant Fellowship , and the Nashville Church of Scientology were members of this interfaith council . Here is a picture of the Angers with a representative of the CoS , among other various religious officials .  

Spoiler

The Scientologist is on the farthest right of the picture .  Here is the article I got this photo from . https://rccnashville.blogspot.com/2016/07/july-meeting-violence-faith-and-hope.html  And here is another article , tying the Scientology minister mentioned in the video to Remnant Fellowship .  https://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2016/09/nashville-religion-communicators-council-talks-positive-politics-2515491.html 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Marmion
I has misworded something

[ManyGoats]

As I noted earlier, the Wednesday service replay was never posted. Now I'm wondering, was there a live broadcast or did they not show it this week? 

And today's 'service' is a reposted sermon of Gwen's. No current opening or closing, just the rerun.

[SilverBeach]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:22 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

I am really surprised to see you defending him. He has pushed out a ton of unsubstantiated nonsense and one current member here who actually has connections to the doc and the church has noted that Dan is not really a good source. Dan’s own behavior and background show his lack of reliability as well. Dude is pushing a completely made up theory about suicide FFS! He attacked kids and dug in. He has no real connection to RF and he came here to promote himself. He is not a regular member feeling his way around. 

I wasn't defending him, I was presenting a different perspective. It seemed to me that he was attacked here right out the gate. I was very interested in the crash, and what he said related to that, but didn't pay much attention to the rest of it, as it did seem gossipy so I ignored it. Maybe he didn't come here in good faith, and came to promote himself, I don't know. I was surprised when I saw his name and thought it was a pretender. All I know is he expressed intense dislike for RF and Gwen, as do I. Doesn't matter, he won't be back.

On 10/1/2021 at 4:20 PM, Destiny said:

I would LOVE to know what the financial shape is inside that building. If it's true that people are leaving in sizable amounts, money has to be starting to become a problem.

They could have invested church money wisely, and not be overly dependent on tithes and offerings. And with the property and business holdings, it might be awhile before financial issues arise. I do hope people are leaving in droves, eventually it would have to have an impact.

[freefromthin]

17 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

As I noted earlier, the Wednesday service replay was never posted. Now I'm wondering, was there a live broadcast or did they not show it this week? 

And today's 'service' is a reposted sermon of Gwen's. No current opening or closing, just the rerun.

There was a service on Wednesday, but for whatever reason they chose not to replay it. Probably too busy redesigning their website and preparing their response to the documentary.

Edited October 2, 2021 by freefromthin
added Wednesday

[SilverBeach]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:52 AM, formergothardite said:

Pretty sure people who say they have no compassion for the children in cults because they are not innocent, need to be given a taste of their own medicine and victim blame children for not having dismantled a cult are actually the enemy. 
 

My thought are that Dan lives in a bubble where fat shaming women and girls is seen as amusing. Notice the times when he fats shames it has been women he picks on. When confronted with why his behavior isn’t acceptable, he just dug his heels in and kept saying increasingly worse things. Much like Bob, Dan couldn’t actually address the concerns people had. They are cut from the same cloth. 

When I stated that DG was not the enemy, I was limiting the scope of this statement to this topic. Victim blaming children in cults for not dismantling them makes no sense. Was he ever asked why he said such an absurd thing? If he believes in fat shaming, he should love RF and Gwen! In any case, yes, DG appeared to not comprehend why FJ had issues with him, but I don't think he's cut from the same cloth as RF and Gwen. Where's his cult? He's guilty of saying tasteless and insensitive things, but genuinely seems to hate RF, however I don't know the man and don't want to know him so I can't definitively say one way or the other. He's a bit player in all of this.

When I discovered that Bill Gothard lived in my suburb, and that IBLP was headquartered in the area, I was appalled and disgusted. My suburb was as far from fundy as you could get, and the thought that I could have encountered him in Walgreens or Jewel filled me with dread and disgust.  It's an old community, and apparently he lived in his boyhood home with his mother. I did notice groups of denim skirt wearing long hair having women at a nearby mall, because they stood out. I didn't think they were cult members though, just some weird family. I did go by the IBLP property when it was for sale. Creepy. 

[nelliebelle1197]

26 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I wasn't defending him, I was presenting a different perspective. It seemed to me that he was attacked here right out the gate. I was very interested in the crash, and what he said related to that, but didn't pay much attention to the rest of it, as it did seem gossipy so I ignored it. Maybe he didn't come here in good faith, and came to promote himself, I don't know. I was surprised when I saw his name and thought it was a pretender. All I know is he expressed intense dislike for RF and Gwen, as do I. Doesn't matter, he won't be back.

They could have invested church money wisely, and not be overly dependent on tithes and offerings. And with the property and business holdings, it might be awhile before financial issues arise. I do hope people are leaving in droves, eventually it would have to have an impact.

He has been back but he is in the prayer closet over his behavior toward a child.

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

When I stated that DG was not the enemy, I was limiting the scope of this statement to this topic. Victim blaming children in cults for not dismantling them makes no sense. Was he ever asked why he said such an absurd thing? If he believes in fat shaming, he should love RF and Gwen! In any case, yes, DG appeared to not comprehend why FJ had issues with him, but I don't think he's cut from the same cloth as RF and Gwen. Where's his cult? He's guilty of saying tasteless and insensitive things, but genuinely seems to hate RF, however I don't know the man and don't want to know him so I can't definitively say one way or the other. He's a bit player in all of this.

When I discovered that Bill Gothard lived in my suburb, and that IBLP was headquartered in the area, I was appalled and disgusted. My suburb was as far from fundy as you could get, and the thought that I could have encountered him in Walgreens or Jewel filled me with dread and disgust.  It's an old community, and apparently he lived in his boyhood home with his mother. I did notice groups of denim skirt wearing long hair having women at a nearby mall, because they stood out. I didn't think they were cult members though, just some weird family. I did go by the IBLP property when it was for sale. Creepy. 

I would recommend you go back and read the interactions. We indeed asked him wtf he was doing and then he mansplained us poorly

[WorseThan1Thinks]

Looks like Remnant cancelled this weekend's service.  It was just cancelled earlier today (was supposed to be at 5pm).   

lol

What Michael and Elizabeth are doing are the EXACT opposite of leading. They are practically no shows for 4 months and now this. That's not leading... that hiding and retreating.   At their most pivotal 'hour' (these past 4 months and especially now), they are practically nowhere to be seen.  

[ManyGoats]

23 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

There was a service on Wednesday, but for whatever reason they chose not to replay it.

Right, but my question is -- did it air live?