Maxwell 51: Empty Nesters, Empty Vesters? End of an Era

[Smee]

As a general musing, I feel like a lot of re-assessing of lives has gone on since the start of the pandemic. It’s not necessarily people facing mortality or selfishness or the growing political divide, it’s all the flow-on effects too, of disrupted routines and high stress levels and changes in how often you associate with whom. Looking just amongst people I know, I cannot tell you how many marriages (including my own) have ended in the past 18 months, but I’d wager it’s 5x as many as the previous 5 years in my circles. So many people quit jobs or changed careers. The friends of mine whose relationships didn’t fall apart (& even one whose did) have all had babies. Maybe it’s just my perception and more to do with the life stage I’m at, but I do think it’s been a time of a lot of thinking for a lot of people, and with so many significant medical things in Maxhell recently too, it’s not really surprising timing for big changes.

[kpmom]

1 hour ago, Smee said:

 

. Christian bookstores would likely be perfectly willing to carry the Moody books, but Sarah would earn less on those copies than on the ones she’s able to sell directly from the Titus2 website. To give you an idea, my first novel retailed for $20AUD, and I earned $2AUD in royalties for every copy sold. But I could also buy my own copies direct from my publisher for $10AUD, and sell them directly to

Regarding the Christian bookstores, so they would take some of the profit of each sale rather than the author paying the store to carry her books?

And how would a self-published author like Sarah get a Christian bookstore to carry her books in the first place?  Would she approach them and show how well her books sell at the Titus2 website? 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

2 hours ago, Smee said:

As a general musing, I feel like a lot of re-assessing of lives has gone on since the start of the pandemic. It’s not necessarily people facing mortality or selfishness or the growing political divide, it’s all the flow-on effects too, of disrupted routines and high stress levels and changes in how often you associate with whom. Looking just amongst people I know, I cannot tell you how many marriages (including my own) have ended in the past 18 months, but I’d wager it’s 5x as many as the previous 5 years in my circles. So many people quit jobs or changed careers. The friends of mine whose relationships didn’t fall apart (& even one whose did) have all had babies. Maybe it’s just my perception and more to do with the life stage I’m at, but I do think it’s been a time of a lot of thinking for a lot of people, and with so many significant medical things in Maxhell recently too, it’s not really surprising timing for big changes.

I only know one couple divorcing (so far) but a lot of us bought a house and/or had a baby. I did both! The local hospital had a multiple day wait list for inductions so I got sent to a hospital 50 km away! Wild times. We assume our bub will always be in giant classes...

[louannems]

On 9/18/2021 at 4:45 PM, Black Aliss said:

You make a good point. I would not expect to find fabric I like for that little money and I would figure in the value of my time. When I was working I calculated my hourly rate based on what I earned at my job. So because sewing is not something I absolutely love doing, making my own clothes is very expensive. 

I have always loved spending an hour or two browsing the pattern books and fabrics at the fabric store.  There was a time I did sew my son and daughter matchy boy/girl Christmas outfits when they were really young.  They're just 16 months apart and I thought they looked adorable matching.  But it was expensive.

Then I didn't sew for many years.  Seven years ago, shortly after I retired, I walked to our local sushi restaurant and had a lovely meal, which included sake.  I left slightly tipsy and went next door to Joann Fabrics.  I sat looking through the pattern books, looking for a summer sundress pattern. I chose a sleeveless one with a slightly dropped waist and what I thought were little inverted pleats on both sides of the front and back skirt part.

I spent a long time choosing the fabric and notions.  The whole thing cost me $60!

After I got home I realized this pattern required a lot of yardage and I couldn't figure out why.  I was a size ten. When I got to cutting out and sewing this dress, I then realized the little inverted pleats were actually huge, deep pleats which made the dress seem more like a square dance dress!

It fit well and seven years later I have never once worn this dress! Someday I will thrift it.

Sewing is not cheap!

[HereticHick]

I was curious and looked in OCLC's World Cat catalogued to see which libraries, of any, have Sarah's Moody books.  The most popular one was 2003's A Summer with the Maxwells (illustrated by Mary), catalogued by 12 libraries.

Libraries that have it include: Pioneer Library System, Oklahoma; Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska; Marshall Public Library, Indiana, Red Deer Public Library, Ontario; Auburndale Public Library, Florida. 

Ironically no libraries in Kansas, so if the Maxwells ever donated Moody Books to the (evil!) local library, the library didn't keep them.

[Smee]

6 hours ago, kpmom said:

Regarding the Christian bookstores, so they would take some of the profit of each sale rather than the author paying the store to carry her books?

And how would a self-published author like Sarah get a Christian bookstore to carry her books in the first place?  Would she approach them and show how well her books sell at the Titus2 website? 

Yes, they would take profit. I've never heard of an author paying a store to carry their books. As for how to get them to carry them, it may depend on whether the Maxwells are working with a larger distributor or if there's one connected to the printer. E.g. if you print on demand with IngramSpark, your book becomes accessible by the Ingram Group distribution network - so a bookstore would have a wholesale account with Ingram and might buy a few copies of your book (at the discounted wholesale price) along with a dozen other titles from various other authors and small publishers, that all gets invoiced and shipped together. Distributors like this have catalogues which they send to booksellers each month, and you can pay to have your book featured in the catalogue. Or you can approach the bookstore directly (many will have contact details for the person responsible for book buying on their website) and let them know about your book, reasons it might sell well, and how to order copies. The other thing that helps bookstores to keep things low risk is to make a title returnable - so if it doesn't sell within, say, 12 months, the store can send it back for a refund. Publishers/authors then have to wear the shipping costs associated with that, and figure out what to do with the extra copies of the book that didn't sell (often they get pulped).

5 hours ago, louannems said:

 

Sewing is not cheap!

Not at all! But, I do find that handmade stuff with natural fibres lasts much, much longer than 90% of what's available in shops these days. Fast fashion is such poor quality. So as long as you actually wear your handmade clothes regularly, it can work out ok, financially. I have a dress that I made 5 years ago and wear regularly throughout the summers; I have one seam that I need to fix up where it's starting to fray (I made this before I had an overlocker/serger), but otherwise it still looks as new.

[CyborgKin]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:32 PM, Smee said:

As a general musing, I feel like a lot of re-assessing of lives has gone on since the start of the pandemic.

I reassessed (or maybe just finally assessed at all) so hard that I'm gonna change my name!  Well, unless I get discouraged enough that I decide the whole thing's a delusion.

[FloraDoraDolly]

One advantage that Sarah's books have over her parents' books is that middle-grade novels for kids can stay relevant for decades. While many have pointed out how the elder Maxwells' MOTH chore system is out of date, the same cannot be said for the Moody books. I realize that most people here wouldn't consider Sarah's books to be on the same level as Harry Potter or Pippi Longstocking or even The Babysitters' Club. But they have their own following, and there are always going to be fundie parents looking for something their kids can read. Thus, I expect that Sarah's books will continue to sell. It won't be a steady income that she can rely on to pay all of her bills, but she will probably get at least some $$ from those books for years to come.

[Bethy]

41 minutes ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

One advantage that Sarah's books have over her parents' books is that middle-grade novels for kids can stay relevant for decades. While many have pointed out how the elder Maxwells' MOTH chore system is out of date, the same cannot be said for the Moody books. I realize that most people here wouldn't consider Sarah's books to be on the same level as Harry Potter or Pippi Longstocking or even The Babysitters' Club. But they have their own following, and there are always going to be fundie parents looking for something their kids can read. Thus, I expect that Sarah's books will continue to sell. It won't be a steady income that she can rely on to pay all of her bills, but she will probably get at least some $$ from those books for years to come.

Yes, definitely. They've actually posted in the past about families literally wearing out their copies from reading them so much (not to mention the inevitable toilet dunks and such that happen in a big family where every toddler can't be watched every second) and having to buy additional copies of books they'd already purchased. Additionally I think they were already starting to see the "second generation" as parents who had been older children when the Moodys first came to be are now becoming parents themselves and want those familiar stories for their kids. I've done the same thing for my daughter, albeit with books like Dr. Seuss and Ramona, but there's definitely a market for a second generation who, while they may not be as fundie as Mom and Dad, like the idea of their kids reading these bland, comforting stories where nothing is ever going to frighten them or be an influence they'd have to have a hard talk about.

[MamaJunebug]

On 9/19/2021 at 2:39 PM, Sops2 said:

Hope they're able to take part in sport as well as watch, but even being in the crowd at a fun event is a huge step forward

 

The gals look as pretty as ever I’ve seen them!  I attribute this to:

* being able to relax. They’re no longer looking down Sarah’s camera lens while listening to the parents tell them how to smile. 
* being able to look in the mirror longer than it takes to ensure there’s no burrito filling in their teeth. They’ve both tied back their long hair and it looks good on them! One never ever sees a Maxgal photographed without their long, feminine hair hanging long. Even if it lengthened their already long, narrow faces, that apparently is the style their father decreed snd they dared not deviate. Now they can and do. 
* being one of the crowd. They’re no longer on-stage at Nursing Home Church nor as part of the Maxwell Dog & Pony Show And Sales Table. 
* knowing that when they eventually turn in, at night, they can talk freely, without parents nor a sister listening in. To be fair, they might miss Sarah. She was likely most sistermom-ish with them and with Jesse, as she was 11 and 15-ish when Anna & Mary were born. 
 

I'm just a Little bothered by the guy next to Anna.  The one who looks like he has a very sour pickle in both his ends.  LOL Reminds me of my overly prim & proper ex- during our courting and that would be outta the frypan (Steve) and into the fire if an Mgal were to settle down with same. 

[Bethy]

9 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

* being able to look in the mirror longer than it takes to ensure there’s no burrito filling in their teeth. They’ve both tied back their long hair and it looks good on them! One never ever sees a Maxgal photographed without their long, feminine hair hanging long. Even if it lengthened their already long, narrow faces, that apparently is the style their father decreed snd they dared not deviate. Now they can and do. 

I don't know whether wearing their hair hanging down was a command or just a by-product of being criticized for spending too much time primping (that's not an uncommon thing in fundie homes..."pride" and "vanity" and stuff get tossed around a lot, and girls get criticized if they spend "too many" minutes on their appearance.) It did bother me terribly over the years to see them preparing food - ESPECIALLY food that was going to be distributed to others, like the poppyseed cakes for Christmas caroling - with all that hair just hanging loose. That's largely my background in foodservice...which I did as a JOB, working for someone other than my father or brothers...which means Anna and Mary had never had that life experience. They probably never even got to do anything like that as a volunteer since they were yanked out of conventional church as children. I mean, it's common sense that you should have your hair tied back when you cook, but it's the years employed in foodservice that literally scream at me when I try to even unload the dishwasher with my hair down.

They also may have friends lining up to experiment with styles on their long hair - Mary's especially, since Anna's has never been as long as Mary's and I don't know if that's her preference or just that her hair isn't super healthy and doesn't get a chance to grow much past her shoulders. Mary has the head of hair other girls are DYING to try styles on. It was that way when I had long hair in the 90s...and now there's Pinterest to give even more ideas in one place!

[MamaJunebug]

10 minutes ago, Bethy said:

I don't know whether wearing their hair hanging down was a command or just a by-product of being criticized for spending too much time primping (that's not an uncommon thing in fundie homes..."pride" and "vanity" and stuff get tossed around a lot, and girls get criticized if they spend "too many" minutes on their appearance.

Ah-ha, thank you! Parental over-direction AND hyper-criticism about every last little thing. Two sides to the same coin, I wager. 

[kpmom]

11 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

The gals look as pretty as ever I’ve seen them! 

 

It's also nice to see candid photos rather than the posed, staged pics that were always on Titus2.  Their smiles look genuine.  Maybe they were genuine at times on Titus2 as well, but there had to be times when they thought, "I really don't want to hold this heavy bag of mulch while smiling for the camera and pretending I'm having a great time mulching Gigi's lawn."

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:39 PM, Sops2 said:

Hope they're able to take part in sport as well as watch, but even being in the crowd at a fun event is a huge step forward

 

I'm having serious Maxwell withdraw, so thanks for this! I've read them since the beginning!

[Mela99]

Do  you guys think they really know what it means to have fun or enjoy themselves without being terrified or guilty about it? It's amazing that they're "out" but are they too far gone to enjoy it?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

15 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

knowing that when they eventually turn in, at night, they can talk freely, without parents nor a sister listening in. To be fair, they might miss Sarah. She was likely most sistermom-ish with them and with Jesse, as she was 11 and 15-ish when Anna & Mary were born. 

I think they miss their parents and Sarah, but are relieved to be away from the scrutiny of their parents and Sarah. I'm glad someone brought up the age difference. Sarah was a sistermom to all the reversals to some extent. She was definitely a parentified child and had a hand in raising her sisters. Some people felt sorry Sarah didn't get to go to bible college, but she's the real empty-nester now since the last of the kids are out.

[Moonbeam]

I've read through most of this thread but haven't had time to read all of it and I don't know how to search this thread so I hope I'm not repeating something someone else has said. All of that to ask...

Does anyone else think Sarah looks pregnant in the last few pics on the blog? Especially the one with the big announcements?  

 

 

[ClareDeLune]

14 hours ago, Mela99 said:

Do  you guys think they really know what it means to have fun or enjoy themselves without being terrified or guilty about it? It's amazing that they're "out" but are they too far gone to enjoy it?

They have been away on mission trips, and to family camp etc.  I think they will be model students and enjoy all the wholesome fun that a bible college has to offer. It's what happens afterwards that would be interesting to hear about. 

[fundiewatch]

9 hours ago, Moonbeam said:

Does anyone else think Sarah looks pregnant in the last few pics on the blog? Especially the one with the big announcements?  

 

 

No. Sarah has often wore a loose fit shirt with a skirt. She’s a tiny woman and doesn’t care if it’s flattering to her shape or not. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

8 hours ago, ClareDeLune said:

They have been away on mission trips, and to family camp etc.  I think they will be model students and enjoy all the wholesome fun that a bible college has to offer. It's what happens afterwards that would be interesting to hear about. 

 

22 hours ago, Mela99 said:

Do  you guys think they really know what it means to have fun or enjoy themselves without being terrified or guilty about it? It's amazing that they're "out" but are they too far gone to enjoy it?

 

Some comments: Of course they miss their family! Their parents and siblings are not "evil" to them. And, even in their 20s they still likely miss home. Yes, they've been out and done things--probably more than we've been told. They run a Bible class--that's an "all comers" event, so they've dealt with things there, too. But, I also think they are happy to be in a new [gag] "season of life" at last. I'm sure it is fun==everyone's definition of fun differs. They are probably coping fine, but my bet would be some real homesickness at first that's starting to fade by now. They know they got to do this for a purpose. They will prepare for that purpose. Not everyone rebels, and not everyone rejects what their folks teach them. Not everyone rebels/rejects immediately, either. Some have to take baby steps. For these two having a hamburger for dinner on burrito night is a huge step. I imagine there may be daily check-ins with Mom and Dad or something, too. The important thing is they got to go. Look at the way the Bates' kids have changed because Michaela went with Zack to volunteer in the fire dept, and then Erin got to go to Crown (with a buddy)--look at the changes that have occurred. This is a BIG first step. Let's let them enjoy it.

Now, Sarah being pregnant. That's a no. She would not.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

 

 

Some comments: Of course they miss their family! Their parents and siblings are not "evil" to them. And, even in their 20s they still likely miss home. Yes, they've been out and done things--probably more than we've been told. They run a Bible class--that's an "all comers" event, so they've dealt with things there, too. But, I also think they are happy to be in a new [gag] "season of life" at last. I'm sure it is fun==everyone's definition of fun differs. They are probably coping fine, but my bet would be some real homesickness at first that's starting to fade by now. They know they got to do this for a purpose. They will prepare for that purpose. Not everyone rebels, and not everyone rejects what their folks teach them. Not everyone rebels/rejects immediately, either. Some have to take baby steps. For these two having a hamburger for dinner on burrito night is a huge step. I imagine there may be daily check-ins with Mom and Dad or something, too. The important thing is they got to go. Look at the way the Bates' kids have changed because Michaela went with Zack to volunteer in the fire dept, and then Erin got to go to Crown (with a buddy)--look at the changes that have occurred. This is a BIG first step. Let's let them enjoy it.

Now, Sarah being pregnant. That's a no. She would not.

I agree with almost everything you said, except for the part about the Bates. The Bates have not changed in any significant way for good imo. Crown is a joke since it's unaccredited plus they have to live at home. Their views are as bigoted and toxic as ever. The girls are pushed into getting married as young as possible while legally adults. The boys seem to have no financial security. Any changes they've made as cosmetic and shallow.  I don't know that the Maxwells will get better than the Bates, but I don't think the Bates have made any constructive changes.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[IReallyAmHopewell]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:51 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I agree with almost everything you said, except for the part about the Bates. The Bates have not changed in any significant way for good imo. Crown is a joke since it's unaccredited plus they have to live at home. Their views are as bigoted and toxic as ever. The girls are pushed into getting married as young as possible while legally adults. The boys seem to have no financial security. Any changes they've made as cosmetic and shallow.  I don't know that the Maxwells will get better than the Bates, but I don't think the Bates have made any constructive changes.

Crown wasn't a joke --they still had to compete against others, the majority of whom were not homeschooled and many went there because that is where Mom and Dad would pay. [I work for a fully accredited Christian college] more goes on than many think! They got exposed to folks who did not grow up like they did--that's why it matters. Not wanting to sound strident here, just clarifying what I meant. It's the same for Anna and Mary. They have met people in their Bible outreach, but now like the Bates' kids, they are meeting peers. That's huge. Even if it is for ONE semester it will forever rock their world. Plus, going to a Church that is not necessarily as Conservative [still Conservative!] and that may have a young adults group (i.e. Christian Singles Bar) is great.

[TheJewAmongUs]

Anna and Mary went on long missions for probably 3 summers before COVID. I doubt they've been gone long enough for this to feel different to them yet.

[Black Aliss]

1 hour ago, TheJewAmongUs said:

Anna and Mary went on long missions for probably 3 summers before COVID. I doubt they've been gone long enough for this to feel different to them yet.

It's different in that they are no longer responsible for cleaning anything but their own dorm room, someone else cooks for them, and there is no longer anyone to insist that they get up before dawn to read their bibles, and also do bible study before bedtime. I'm sure they miss their nieces and nephews, but their own lives are much easier now.

[HereticHick]

The Maxwell ladies have been posted on ABC's official instagram again. Poor Steve-jovah-- his daughters have become bible college poster girls!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUN44-VjVVv/