Remnant Fellowship 18: The Irony of the Possibly Overweight Plane

[Howl]

They are all she has left of her daughter, so all the more reason for her to want to raise them.  It's scary though -- should she lose in court, RF would likely cut off all contact between her and her grandchildren. 

[RFfamANON]

7 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/2fqh954u20

This poor mom lost her daughter to Joe's stupidity and carelessness.  Now she has to go up against RF so she can get the kids instead of other (non-family) RF members getting guardianship of the 3 kids.

I don’t donate to many of these types of causes but I did to this one. The thought that RF would get these kids makes me sick to my stomach. 

[cookingbutterchicken]

5 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

I don’t donate to many of these types of causes but I did to this one. The thought that RF would get these kids makes me sick to my stomach. 

Me either, but donated ASAP!  This cult is being shoved down my kids throat 50% of the time by my ex!  These kids need to be out!

27 minutes ago, Howl said:

They are all she has left of her daughter, so all the more reason for her to want to raise them.  It's scary though -- should she lose in court, RF would likely cut off all contact between her and her grandchildren. 

I think it is a sure bet they will loose all contact with anyone outside of rf!!!

[SayonaraLara]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:56 PM, SayonaraLara said:

Unexpected:

Filing for custody of Jessica and Jonathan Walters’ three children are longtime Remnant leaders Patrick and Amy Stites. Jessica’s mother, Sandra, is  listed as an interested party.

The Walters’ estate(s) are perhaps more interesting. Jan Ruble —  a longtime Remnant member — is listed as Jonathan’s petitioner. But there are TWO filings for the estate of Jessica. On one (Jessica Renee Walters), Jan Ruble is petitioner and mother Sandra Solomon is an interested party. BUT, on the other (Jessica Solomon Walters), her father Malcolm Solomon is listed as petitioner. Guessing her parents aren’t together?

An update on court filings regarding the Walters’ estates. 

Jessica Renee Walters: The two separate filings appear to be semi-merged now. Malcolm Solomon (father) is listed Administrator Ad Litem** (definition below). Jan Ruble (Remnant member) is listed as petitioner, and it says Petition for Testate Executor, so apparently there is a will. Sandra Solomon (mother) is listed as interested party.

Jonathan Ray Walters: Remnant member Ruble is petitioner, and it says Petition for Testate, indicating there apparently is a will. At least so far, none of his family has come forward. 

** According to Cornell Law by way of Google: “A person appointed by a probate court to represent an estate during a lawsuit. (Ad litem is Latin for "during the litigation.") An administrator ad litem is appointed only if there is no existing executor or administrator of the estate, or if the executor or administrator has conflicting interests.”

Edited July 10, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[Queen Of Hearts]

11 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

Looks like Jessica Walter's mom is trying to get guardianship of Jessica's 3 kids that were orphaned from the plane crash, but has to fight RF and their money and their lawyers to do.  So now someone setup a gofundme.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/2fqh954u20

This poor mom lost her daughter to Joe's stupidity and carelessness.  Now she has to go up against RF so she can get the kids instead of other (non-family) RF members getting guardianship of the 3 kids.  Only RF would work things and hire lawyers to keep kids away from their own family after a tragedy like this.

Those kids literally have no family inside RF.  Family wants the kids.  But RF wants the kids and is fighting for them in court. 

 

This makes me truly sick to my stomach. That poor woman....

 

[quiversR4hunting]

I hope she (Solomon) is healthy and active and gets custody of those kids. I hope she has always had a relationship with them so the court sides with her. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
Redundant

[cookingbutterchicken]

So do we think there was a PreNup between Gwen & Joe?  Could we find out?

[Coconut Flan]

My granddaughter overhead her mother and me talking about it and even the rising first grader recognized the kids belong with grandma and not church members.  

[SayonaraLara]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:56 PM, SayonaraLara said:

Been keeping an eye on the Williamson County Online Court Record System for filings. Some expected and maybe unexpected filings.

Expected: 

Ashton Martin Jost, oldest child of David and Jennifer Martin, has filed for custody of her younger brothers, Aiden and Aaron. She also has filed as petitioner for her parents’ estate(s

Ashton Martin has filed for “Petition for Intestate Administration” of both her parents’ estates. “Intestate” means Jennifer and David Martin died *without* a will. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[Bluebirdbluebell]

12 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

An update on court filings regarding the Walters’ estates. 

Jessica Renee Walters: The two separate filings appear to be semi-merged now. Malcolm Solomon (father) is listed Administrator Ad Litem** (definition below). Jan Ruble (Remnant member) is listed as petitioner, and it says Petition for Testate Executor, so apparently there is a will. Sandra Solomon (mother) is listed as interested party.

Jonathan Ray Walters: Remnant member Ruble is petitioner, and it says Petition for Testate, indicating there apparently is a will. At least so far, none of his family has come forward. 

** According to Cornell Law by way of Google: “A person appointed by a probate court to represent an estate during a lawsuit. (Ad litem is Latin for "during the litigation.") An administrator ad litem is appointed only if there is no existing executor or administrator of the estate, or if the executor or administrator has conflicting interests.”

If you're right and there's a will, then I think the will probably says specific church members should get custody of the kids. That will make the grandmother's attempt to gain custody harder and it explains why somebody other than grandma wants custody.

I'm torn because I don't want the kids in the cult. However if the circumstances were reversed, most of us would have wills saying under no circumstances do I want my kids to go to relatives in the cult, even if it meant not leaving them to relatives.

A couple I know left their kids to certain people, due to religious differences. Her sister always threatened to go to court and sue for custody if she died. Fortunately the couple is still alive and their kids are all adults!

Edited July 11, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[RFFriend]

33 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

If you're right and there's a will, then I think the will probably says specific church members should get custody of the kids. That will make the grandmother's attempt to gain custody harder and it explains why somebody other than grandma wants custody.

I'm torn because I don't want the kids in the cult. However if the circumstances were reversed, most of us would have wills saying under no circumstances do I want my kids to go to relatives in the cult, even if it meant not leaving them to relatives.

A couple I know left their kids to certain people, due to religious differences. Her sister always threatened to go to court and sue for custody if she died. Fortunately the couple is still alive and their kids are all adults!

I believe a big concern to RF Members is keeping their kids in RF if something were to happen to them.  I know my friend and her spouse have had a formal conversation with another couple about taking their kids if something were to happen to them and they put it in their will.  I think this is something that is commonly done in their circles.

I get the feeling the Walters children are with the couple they chose and if it is in the will then I would hope that the State would honor that as it would have been their parent's wishes, regardless of how we feel about it.

[AmazonGrace]

JMO anyone who grew up believing that Gwen Shamblin Lara was some sort of prophet whose words should be followed and venerated is in need of some deprogramming. However, if you grew up in a cult and most or all of your friends and support framework are there  it might not be easy to be taken out of it and thrown into some other environment. You'd pretty much be losing everything that was familiar to you.

Losing your parents in such a way might be  the sort of situation in which there are no real good options, just bad options and options that are bad in a different way.

From Saturday's wedding, the groom believes that if he doesn't do everything the way his parents want him to he will be cursed.

Spoiler

A girlfriend – and eventually a wife – was always something that I had desired and prayed for. It wasn’t until I was old enough where I was interested in pursuing that type of relationship that God really opened my eyes to how much I had to work on! I harbored a lot of selfishness and anti-authority in my heart, always thinking that I was smarter or had a better idea than my parents did, which was only bringing me curses and sadness, since that reflects how I treat God’s authority also. Once I changed my attitude and heart, I began to accept the authority line God placed over me, and I opened my mind and heart to what my parents’ leadings were. Soon after, I received the greatest blessing of meeting Madison.

They are both very young.

[Howl]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

They are both very young.

Still teens? 

"Authority line" gives me an icky feeling all over. 

[AmazonGrace]

I did the math from their stories and it seems they were born in 2001 or 2002 or thereabouts.

[MamaJunebug]

Are “grandparents’ rights” still argued for in cases like that of the Walters orphans?  

[Gothard is a perv]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:55 AM, WorseThan1Thinks said:

Looks like Jessica Walter's mom is trying to get guardianship of Jessica's 3 kids that were orphaned from the plane crash, but has to fight RF and their money and their lawyers to do.  So now someone setup a gofundme.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/2fqh954u20

This poor mom lost her daughter to Joe's stupidity and carelessness.  Now she has to go up against RF so she can get the kids instead of other (non-family) RF members getting guardianship of the 3 kids.  Only RF would work things and hire lawyers to keep kids away from their own family after a tragedy like this.

Those kids literally have no family inside RF.  Family wants the kids.  But RF wants the kids and is fighting for them in court. 

 

Thanks for posting this ! Since deciding to defund the Christian Industrial Complex I'm always on the look out for legitimate charities and giving opportunities that minister to people VS build huge buildings, fund incredibly overstaffed churches and make "pastors" wealthy. This seems like it qualifies for my new view on giving. I will also be praying for this lady as she litigates for her grandchildren. It takes a lot of nerve to attempt to separate children from family, unless the parents did in fact have arrangements made specifically set this up. Even if they did, I support the grandmother's effort to protect her grandchildren from this dangerous cult. The crash itself is a perfect example of how dangerous they are, not a whole lot of sound decision making there. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Gothard is a perv

[RFsurvivor]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Still teens? 

"Authority line" gives me an icky feeling all over. 

This is not uncommon with Remnant weddings.

[Blue]

18 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

If you're right and there's a will, then I think the will probably says specific church members should get custody of the kids. That will make the grandmother's attempt to gain custody harder and it explains why somebody other than grandma wants custody.

I'm torn because I don't want the kids in the cult. However if the circumstances were reversed, most of us would have wills saying under no circumstances do I want my kids to go to relatives in the cult, even if it meant not leaving them to relatives.

A couple I know left their kids to certain people, due to religious differences. Her sister always threatened to go to court and sue for custody if she died. Fortunately the couple is still alive and their kids are all adults!

That's how I feel. I hope the kids get to go to Grandma, but if the will states someone else, then that's who they should go to. Our will clearly stated our girls shouldn't go to anyone in RF - I should hope a judge would respect that.

[MomJeans]

5 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Are “grandparents’ rights” still argued for in cases like that of the Walters orphans?  

Tennessee does recognize visitation for Grandparents when the father or mother is deceased, but the rights are not mandatory or automatic.  They court will also weigh the wishes of deceased parents for custody, but the court does not have to follow the terms of the will. This is because the court's primary duty is to the best interests of the minor children.

In practice, the courts typically will follow the terms of the will, though the court may order that the non-related child custodians undergo a foster parent evaluation.  That's not to say that Grandmother is without hope.  Just that her legal team will have the burden to prove that the children's best interests are for their Grandmother to get custody.  Religious practice is a respected reason in determining child custody.

I'm not giving legal advice, but hypothetically, if anyone is serious about controlling who will get their children should should they pass, it's probably not a bad idea to state all of the reasons why you are choosing this person to take custody.  In theory, it makes it easier for the court to follow the terms of the will. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I don’t think wills should always be automatically granted. Like if someone left their kids to a friend and that friend had a sexual abuse conviction no one knew about. Wills are contested all the time because not everyone is in their right mindset and don’t make the best decisions. And sometimes things change between the time the Will was made and the time of death.

[LaLaLisa]

I can't believe I hadn't heard about the plane crash until last week. My co-worker mentioned it and I could hardly wait to get home and check out FJ.  I've been reading the threads when I had a few minutes to spare and finally caught up.  

[rabbitholejulie]

31 minutes ago, LaLaLisa said:

I can't believe I hadn't heard about the plane crash until last week. My co-worker mentioned it and I could hardly wait to get home and check out FJ.  I've been reading the threads when I had a few minutes to spare and finally caught up.  

Be prepared to waste a lot of time.  But it will be so worth it...

[Cults-r-us]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t think wills should always be automatically granted. Like if someone left their kids to a friend and that friend had a sexual abuse conviction no one knew about. Wills are contested all the time because not everyone is in their right mindset and don’t make the best decisions. And sometimes things change between the time the Will was made and the time of death.

 

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t think wills should always be automatically granted. Like if someone left their kids to a friend and that friend had a sexual abuse conviction no one knew about. Wills are contested all the time because not everyone is in their right mindset and don’t make the best decisions. And sometimes things change between the time the Will was made and the time of death.

My cousin is an estate lawyer. He drew up a will for a man who was adamant he did not want his sister to get custody of his kids. They were to live with a neighbor. Tragically and nearly immediately after making his will, the man was killed in a car accident. Long stort short, the sister sued and got custody of his children.

 

 

 

[MomJeans]

That's why my husband and I included sworn declarations in our will.  Our declarations explained not only why we chose his cousin to raise the kids if we pass , but also explicit details of the abuse I suffered in my own family and have observed my siblings commit, and all the reasons my husband doesn't want his kids raised Mormon, which his parents and siblings would insist on.  

At the time we joked that if our siblings didn't hate us before we died, they will absolutely hate us after we die.  

Otherwise, as JermastyDuggar was hinting at, there could be an unforeseen roadblock (such as a felony conviction the deceased was unaware of) and the Court won't understand why someone is a problem, just that the deceased preferred someone else.

I'm also a CASA, and you would be surprised how many people turn down guardianship, even though they originally said they would do it.  I've watched people tell the Judge in chambers "I can't do this, don't pick me", and then an hour later tell the kids outside the court room "I have no idea why they are sending you to Aunt Cathy instead.  I would have taken you in."  

[MamaJunebug]

Thanking @MomJeans fir her insights into the legal process. Hoping against hope for the best outcome for the children.