Remnant Fellowship 18: The Irony of the Possibly Overweight Plane

[Howl]

43 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The video of him talking to his ex is extremely disturbing. He and Gwen deserved each other. 

Joe was an actor.  He had to be extremely aware of tone and exactly what he wanted to project. 

Also, were there other wives before the current ex wife?

[Destiny]

This will be interesting. 
https://mobile.twitter.com/jfinleyreports

 

 

Man uses marijuana! News at 11! *yawn*
I know many people who indulge in herbs and it does not make them unsafe. This attitude is a holdover from the stupid war on pot, not an actual safety issue. Also, since there’s no evidence he fell asleep, having insomnia is also not particularly relevant, and also not a disqualification for a medical. I personally know someone who had to jump through some hoops to get their medical because of a sleep disorder but had one.

[WorseThan1Thinks]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Joe was an actor.  He had to be extremely aware of tone and exactly what he wanted to project. 

Also, were there other wives before the current ex wife?

Joe was never married to the mother of his daughter.  

Joe was never married to anyone until he met Gwen (who was married to David at the time).  

Something about Gwen (in my incredibly strong opinion, it was simply $$$$$) made him change his mind after 52 years of never being married to finally tie the knot.

He wouldn't marry (but would live with her for years according to court documents) the mother of his daughter, the women on the left.  But instead, later decided to change a life of being single with the woman on the right.

 

[MamaJunebug]

6 minutes ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

Joe was never married to the mother of his daughter.  

Joe was never married to anyone until he met Gwen (who was married to David at the time).  

Something about Gwen (in my incredibly strong opinion, it was simply $$$$$) made him change his mind after 52 years of never being married to finally tie the knot.

He wouldn't marry (but would live with her for years according to court documents) the mother of his daughter, the women on the left.  But instead, later decided to change a life of being single with the woman on the right.

 

I will never no never begin to comprehend how anybody took seriously a leader who wore a bump-it the size of her head and white makeup approaching the style of Queen Elizabeth The First. 
 

She had every right to groom herself as she wanted. 
 

I just don’t understand having confidence in someone who made those grooming choices. 
 

 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

7 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Man uses marijuana! News at 11! *yawn*
I know many people who indulge in herbs and it does not make them unsafe. This attitude is a holdover from the stupid war on pot, not an actual safety issue. Also, since there’s no evidence he fell asleep, having insomnia is also not particularly relevant, and also not a disqualification for a medical. I personally know someone who had to jump through some hoops to get their medical because of a sleep disorder but had one.

I took the report a whole different way.  I took it as Joe left required information out of his medical and pilot applications.  Stuff that very well might have made his pilot's license get denied.

I think the issue is that it appears Joe made false statements on the FAA medical forms (making false statements to a federal agency is a big deal).  And, if so, would that have somehow invalidated his license?

And then, a month before the crash, the whole Joe admitting his second class medical expired while Remnant shows up with non-expired medical certificate days after the crash.

The wrongful death suits should figure this all out in time.

[Pecansforeveryone]

@MamaJunebug, I never understood how someone as otherwise appearance and media savy as Gwen didn't grasp how bizarre her style choices had become. Joyce Meyers has clearly had cosmetic procedures and is bordering on having had to many but generally has managed to maintain a stylish mainstream appearance. Gwen looked like that in the beginning of her ministry. Yeah, Joe married Gwen for her money. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Pecansforeveryone
Correct a word

[MamaJunebug]

22 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

@MamaJunebug, I never understood how someone as otherwise appearance and media savy as Gwen didn't grasp how bizarre her style choices had become. Joyce Meyers has clearly had cosmetic procedures and is bordering on having had to many but generally has managed to maintain a stylish mainstream appearance. Gwen looked like that in the beginning of her ministry. Yeah, Joe married Gwen for her money. 

Joyce Meyer! My BFF’s old neighbor.  (Just in the same municipality, she didn’t know Joyce.)

Caught a few moments of her about a year ago - looked to me like the muscles in the middle of her lips were the only moving facial parts.  Well, and eyelids. 
 

I am not a Joyce fan but again : why is it men motivational speakers can age and women m.s. can not?

Random wool gathering on a lazy morning:

I met a guy who knew Joyce & her husband about 25, 35 years ago. He said the husband was the most laid-back guy ever. They shot at tin cans on some property the couple owned, and when there was no more ammunition, chucked rocks.  Guess all the will to succeed big was hers and hers alone. 
 

Hard for me to think too much about her, though, and how she unwittingly gave cover to a guy who murdered his wife and sons and tried to make it look like a hate crime. He’d been her trusted head of security!!

So much for godly discernment. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[ManyGoats]

3 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

 

[ManyGoats]

3 hours ago, Destiny said:

Also, since there’s no evidence he fell asleep, having insomnia is also not particularly relevant.......

I'm thinking it could be -- if you have insomnia, you don't get enough sleep and/or quality sleep and that makes your brain less efficient. You may not nod off but your reflexes and response time could be comprised. I wouldn't want to fly with a pilot who only got a few hours of sleep the night before.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

7 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

Joe was never married to the mother of his daughter.  

Joe was never married to anyone until he met Gwen (who was married to David at the time).  

Something about Gwen (in my incredibly strong opinion, it was simply $$$$$) made him change his mind after 52 years of never being married to finally tie the knot.

He wouldn't marry (but would live with her for years according to court documents) the mother of his daughter, the women on the left.  But instead, later decided to change a life of being single with the woman on the right.

It's possible the mother of his child had her reasons for not wanting to be married. Not everyone wants to get married. It's possible she was fine with the relationship as it was until she wanted to split up. 

The mother of his child seems like an intelligent and forceful personality. I think she was right to try to keep their daughter from flying with him.

[MamaJunebug]

4 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

I'm thinking it could be -- if you have insomnia, you don't get enough sleep and/or quality sleep and that makes your brain less efficient. You may not nod off but your reflexes and response time could be comprised. I wouldn't want to fly with a pilot who only got a few hours of sleep the night before.

I once was on an Amtrak train that broke down halfway to its destination.  The wait included up to 8 hours to confirm that the driver of the replacement bus had had their required sleep. 
 

If it’s important enough for a bus driver on the interstates, it’s important enough for a jet pilot flying over people’s houses (and lakes)! That’s my take on it, though. 
  

[Destiny]

I'm thinking it could be -- if you have insomnia, you don't get enough sleep and/or quality sleep and that makes your brain less efficient. You may not nod off but your reflexes and response time could be comprised. I wouldn't want to fly with a pilot who only got a few hours of sleep the night before.

You should never fly on a commercial airliner then. Seriously, take a look at some of the articles on the topic. Long flights and short rest periods are par for the course especially early on in your flying career.

[ManyGoats]

54 minutes ago, Destiny said:

You should never fly on a commercial airliner then. Seriously, take a look at some of the articles on the topic. Long flights and short rest periods are par for the course especially early on in your flying career.

I don't doubt it. I actually don't do much flying, but when I do, I comfort myself that it's less dangerous flying commercial than private.

[Destiny]

I don't doubt it. I actually don't do much flying, but when I do, I comfort myself that it's less dangerous flying commercial than private.

You would be surprised at how not true that actually can be, especially on the small codeshare airlines.

[ManyGoats]

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

You would be surprised at how not true that actually can be, especially on the small codeshare airlines.

You're probably right. I'm just going off the NTSB statistics.

[FrumperedCat]

12 minutes ago, Destiny said:

You would be surprised at how not true that actually can be, especially on the small codeshare airlines.

I am going to take a bit of reassurance that there is a copilot with commercial, so at least another level of redundancy if all goes to hell from the pilot perspective. Those small planes with only one pilot scare me as there's no protection if the pilot gets taken ill. 

[AnnaSofia]

On 7/2/2021 at 11:56 PM, AmazonGrace said:

I can't access wsmv... Why was Joe in court testifying about his medicals? 

Here's a C&P of the article for anyone who can't access the site.

Quote

 

Court records raise questions of pilot’s qualifications to fly before deadly crash

Jeremy Finley

Updated Jul 3, 2021 | Posted on Jul 2, 2021

 

NASHVILLE, TN (WSMV) - Court records, audio and emails from a bitter child support case of the daughter of Joe Lara raise questions about his qualifications to earn a medical certificate which determines if a pilot is healthy enough to fly.

The emails show the mother of Lara’s daughter repeatedly requested that Lara not pilot their young daughter in planes, citing his drug abuse and length of time he had taken off from flying.

Lara, his wife, and five other members of the Remnant Fellowship Church in Brentwood died May 29 when the Cessna he was piloting crashed into Percy Priest Lake shortly after takeoff from Smyrna Airport.

A preliminary report on the plane crash from the NTSB states that Lara did have an active second-class medical certificate, which shows that a pilot is healthy enough to fly that specific aircraft.

However, on April 30, 2021, in sworn testimony in the child support case, Lara testified that his second-class medical certificate had expired.

“My class, my second class medical expired,” he said.

After explaining that he retained his third-class medical license, which allowed him to fly private planes, he was then asked by an attorney if any medical reason prevented him from keeping his second class.

“No. I just found that I would never get hired as a commercial pilot, given my age and the amount of hours,” Lara said. “It requires thousands and thousands of hours to be considered for a professional hire.”

But court records show in 2015 Lara responded to a series of questions in which he was asked to state the medical condition for which his California medical marijuana card was issued to treat.

Lara responded with “insomnia.”

Lara would go on to earn a medical certificate in 2017 and, according to his church, obtained another in 2019.

According to the FAA’s guide for aviation medical examiners, it states, “Medical conditions that chronically interfere with sleep are disqualifying regardless of whether a sleep aid is used or not.”

As for medical marijuana use by pilots, the FAA also writes that aviation medical examiners should not issue airmen medical certificates to applicants who are using classes of medication, including medical marijuana.

News4 Investigates requested Lara’s entire flight history, including documents he provided to earn medical certificates, to see if any of this was disclosed to the FAA, but was told by the FAA that it could only be provided through a Freedom of Information Act request.

A spokesman for the NTSB said they could not comment pending the ongoing investigation.

In a deposition from 2015, Lara is asked the last time he smoked marijuana.

“I testified to that. I believe it was April or May of ’15,” Lara responded, according to the transcript.

Lara also testified that he no longer smokes marijuana.

However, in a series of emails obtained by News4 Investigates between Lara and the mother of his daughter, Natasha Pavlovich, show Pavlovich raising concert that Lara’s drug use continued.

In an email dated June 18, 2019, Lara responds to Pavlovich in writing, “Nice try trying to create other piece of evidence against me. The truth of the matter is, I was finishing up my multi-engine commercial pilot exam with a FAA examiner and couldn’t call at that time.”

It is unclear what piece of evidence he was referring to or what was occurring to prompt him to write the email.

A month later, on July 8, 2019, Pavlovich writes, “If you are flying her in a private aircraft, I do not agree with that mode of transportation for our daughter as I have legitimate concerns for safety. Please accept this notice as a formal demand from transporting (their daughter) with this type of private air situation.”

Lara responds by saying that he is not obligated to provide Pavlovich with that information and asks for her to show her in their parenting plan where it limits how he can travel with their daughter.

On Nov. 19, 2019, Pavlovich wrote to the Guardian ad Litem that their daughter found two pipes in Lara’s bedroom.

That email also referenced a 2018 incident where Pavlovich and her daughter sat by a man who “reeked of marijuana,” and the girl said, “He smells like Daddy.”

Pavlovich also wrote that she had addressed her concerns of Lara’s “continued drug use” with Brentwood Police, but without a warrant or cause, they couldn’t do anything.

She also wrote that, “If I complain to the FAA, it will take a long time.”

Pavlovich adds that she will, “perhaps file an emergency motion with the court to restrict Father from piloting/flying child.”

Stacy Neisler, the Guardian ad Litem, responded that Pavlovich would have to file a motion with the court to request that Lara not pilot the child.

News4 Investigates reached out to Remnant Church inquiring about the certificate they provided and Lara’s testimony that it had expired, and a spokesperson emailed only saying that Lara was not flying commercially.

News4 Investigates called and emailed Russ Morgan, Lara’s attorney in the child support case, who declined comment citing the confidentiality of the juvenile court proceeding.

On 7/3/2021 at 4:17 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

The mother of his child seems like an intelligent and forceful personality. I think she was right to try to keep their daughter from flying with him.

She's also a licensed pilot, or at least she was at one time. From a 2009 article:

Quote

Today Pavlovich is an aviation enthusiast, skydiver, licensed pilot and completely immersed in aviation. She’s flown a variety of single-engine aircraft such as the Cessna 172, 182, Skylane and a Pitts Special. She also has flown the L-29 Dolphin, and copiloted a MiG-25. Pavlovich is currently working on her instrument rating.

 

http://airportjournals.com/natasha-pavlovich-future-astronaut/

[AmazonGrace]

4 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

Here's a C&P of the article for anyone who can't access the site.

 

Thanks... so the discrepancy regarding whether Joe had a valid medical cert and whether it expired is explained that he had a licence to fly a private plane but whatever extra you need to fly commercially he had let lapse?

[MamaJunebug]

5 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

Today Pavlovich is an aviation enthusiast, skydiver, licensed pilot and completely immersed in aviation. She’s flown a variety of single-engine aircraft such as the Cessna 172, 182, Skylane and a Pitts Special. She also has flown the L-29 Dolphin, and copiloted a MiG-25. Pavlovich is currently working on her instrument rating.

WowWowWow!

This is not a woman who is - how did Mr. Lara sneer it in the video? - "a sick little girl, get some help."  She's like a zillion times the pilot her late ex-partner was! 

If she didn't want their daughter flying with him, I'd say it wasn't just "overprotective mother love" or petulance in re: custody.  She knows her aviation!  

....and he left her for Ms. Shamblin Lara.  Uh-huh.  *smh*

[ManyGoats]

36 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

....and he left her for Ms. Shamblin Lara.  Uh-huh.  *smh*

Or she dumped him.... 

[MamaJunebug]

2 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

Or she dumped him.... 

Oh! How could I have missed that? 
It makes eminent sense. 
Much more sense!

Thank you. 

 

[FusterCluck]

2 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

Or she dumped him.... 

That would explain his harassment of her, as well as the tone in that video. Total speculation, but in my experience with narcissists, if you cut ties, they have to turn it around to make it a deficit in you. 

[SayonaraLara]

On 6/30/2021 at 9:31 PM, WeirdHarold said:

More on Joe's pilot quals, plus other commentary.

  Hide contents

 

 

In the above video and maybe in others, Dan Gryder of Probable Cause alleges that Joe only spent a few days — maybe 4 — at Flight Safety in Atlanta and not finishing the course, essentially flunking out. (And then having a designated flight examiner in Nashville approve his certification — an examiner who has since been suspended over this matter and then quickly cleared by FAA.)

But below in this “Life with Gwen and Joe,” posted May 22, 2020, at the 9-minute mark, Joe says he had just been in Atlanta for Flight Safety for a full 12 days! (And how agonizing it was to be away from Gwen and how he couldn’t sleep without her — well, he does have insomnia, so sayeth that California green card!)

Supposing Gryder’s sources are correct ... what was Joe really doing for the rest of the week while apparently lying to Gwen re his whereabouts?

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[AmazonGrace]

I wonder what Gwen made of Joe's insomnia, since she had this weird obsession that if she woke up in the middle of the night it was God waking her up for a sign of some sort.

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

what was Joe really doing for the rest of the week while apparently lying to Gwen re his whereabouts?

Eating?