Remnant Fellowship 18: The Irony of the Possibly Overweight Plane

[NarcissismKills]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

From the @SJWaterford post back in Sept. 2018:

Yes, churches are PERFECT for laundering money.  Tax exempt, money coming in through tithes, an entity "loaning" money to a church for "construction" or other projects, high status in the community.   So many, many ways for money to slip through the cracks.  This is a problem in the US and globally as well.  

I had found an article about how this works earlier in the week and thought I'd posted it in another thread, but can't find it now. 

From way back in the day, I recall an interview with Gwen on TV in which she stressed how half her income went to taxes. Then afterwards she became a church. Suddenly no more taxes. That could never look good to any law-abiding outsider even though it's not money laundering... Just a recharacterization of income. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that Kim Kardashian has also created a church for tax purposes. Very iffy stuff. 

[AmazonGrace]

Gwen Shamblin Lara has been dead for almost two months now but she's still posting stupid stuff on the internet. Aspartame is an artificial sweetener that does not occur naturally. Hamburger patties do not contain aspartame. 

https://www.gwenshamblinlara.com/artificial-sweeteners-safe/

Are we sure she was a nutritionist? Because this is just dumb. 

 

[Xan]

33 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Gwen Shamblin Lara has been dead for almost two months now but she's still posting stupid stuff on the internet. Aspartame is an artificial sweetener that does not occur naturally. Hamburger patties do not contain aspartame. 

https://www.gwenshamblinlara.com/artificial-sweeteners-safe/

Are we sure she was a nutritionist? Because this is just dumb. 

 

That took all of two minutes on Google to refute.  Beef contains phenylalanine.  Aspartame does have phenylalanine as an ingredient but it also contains other things like aspartic acid.  Beef contains zero Aspartame.

I can't say whether Aspartame is or isn't dangerous.  All I know is that I have to limit my own exposure to it because it gives me some weird peripheral neuropathy symptoms -- my fingers and toes tingle if I have more than a small can of diet soda.

Even in death, Gwen is stupid.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Xan

[Howl]

Found it: The Church and Money Laundering

I like this article because it describes in good detail what money laundering is and goes through the stages used to launder money: placement, layering and integration.  

After describing the damage done by money laundering,  it goes into how a church can be used to launder money and yes, pointing out that many activities that are taxed when performed by professionals are tax free under the church umbrella.  

It really can be a scam on so many levels. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Howl

[Xan]

6 minutes ago, Howl said:

Found it: The Church and Money Laundering

I like this article because it describes in good detail what money laundering is and goes through the stages used to launder money: placement, layering and integration.  

After describing the damage done by money laundering,  it goes into how a church can be used to launder money and yes, pointing out that many activities that are taxed when performed by professionals are tax free under the church umbrella.  

It really can be a scam on so many levels. 

I think one of the worst things this country has done is to decide that churches are non-taxable.  It just opened the door to fraud and misuse.  If churches really wanted to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" then they ought to be happy to pay taxes on income produced by the church.  

[SayonaraLara]

Another service last night with no appearance by Elizabeth or Michael. (Except for his music. Oy, how that frenzied, auto-tuned “Focused Up,” played over and over!)

Elizabeth has made maybe four relatively brief appearances since the crash. And during one of the last ones, she joking-not-joking said that preaching was tiring and really wasn’t that fun if someone else wanted to do it. Michael has made only a couple behind-the-piano appearances, including the aforementioned July 4th concert.

Remnant leadership has been fortunate to have camp as a crutch the last four weeks to fill time and content with kiddie scripture recitation and performances. But they've had no real “church” services. 

So far, Eldon Gormsen, Patrick Stites and Durville Patton seem to have had the most mic time. The Bakers — who were dropped from the leadership page around the time that the Angers and Days were — are back on the leadership page. A few others (like Stacy Sims) have been added to the lower ranks.

Edited July 22, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[Antipatriarch]

1 hour ago, Xan said:

I think one of the worst things this country has done is to decide that churches are non-taxable.  It just opened the door to fraud and misuse.  If churches really wanted to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" then they ought to be happy to pay taxes on income produced by the church.  

I have no problem with churches being non-profits. What I have a problem with is that churches get a bunch of other benefits/exemptions that other non-profits don't get. They can give their pastors the "parsonage allowance" which partially shields them from income taxes. They don't have to file IRS Form 990 which allows them to hide a lot about where their money goes. etc. etc.

I think it has to be one way or the other. If they want to operate as a non-profit and not pay taxes, fine, but then they should have to play by the same rules as other non-profits.

[Howl]

55 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

I think it has to be one way or the other. If they want to operate as a non-profit and not pay taxes, fine, but then they should have to play by the same rules as other non-profits.

This, a thousand times this.  

DH is a CPA, but has never dealt with the church/non profit side.  He assumed they (church) had to file a 990 or does not filing a 990 just refer to the pastor?

[Antipatriarch]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

DH is a CPA, but has never dealt with the church/non profit side.  He assumed they (church) had to file a 990 or does not filing a 990 just refer to the pastor?

I'm not a CPA or a tax attorney (nor do I play one on TV), but it's my understanding that the IRS Form 990 is for the organization. A non-profit like Doctors Without Borders is required to file an IRS Form 990 every year, which documents the organization's income and expenses, as well as things like compensation given to its executives and staff. This gives people who donate to the non-profit a way to know how much of their donations are going toward the organization's stated mission vs. its leaders and staff.

A church is not required to do this (and I doubt many of them do)... so pastors can rake in the big bucks, and their congregants won't know that's where their offerings are going, unless the church leadership tells them.

[rabbitholejulie]

7 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

Another service last night with no appearance by Elizabeth or Michael. (Except for his music. Oy, how that frenzied, auto-tuned “Focused Up,” played over and over!)

Elizabeth has made maybe four relatively brief appearances since the crash. And during one of the last ones, she joking-not-joking said that preaching was tiring and really wasn’t that fun if someone else wanted to do it. Michael has made only a couple behind-the-piano appearances, including the aforementioned July 4th concert.

Remnant leadership has been fortunate to have camp as a crutch the last four weeks to fill time and content with kiddie scripture recitation and performances. But they've had no real “church” services. 

So far, Eldon Gormsen, Patrick Stites and Durville Patton seem to have had the most mic time. The Bakers — who were dropped from the leadership page around the time that the Angers and Days were — are back on the leadership page. A few others (like Stacy Sims) have been added to the lower ranks.

Elizabeth has big platform shoes to fill.

Without the incentive to make it onto the stage with Gwen I would anticipate a big drop off in attendance.  If Michael and Elizabeth were smart they would be front and center, even if it’s just to ask for prayer.  Like you know, a real church.

[RFsurvivor]

13 hours ago, Howl said:

Is RF structured in a specifically hierarchical way, with people reporting up the chain when someone strays from the official party line?  Or was it just understood that some people were higher up in the food chain and had to be appeased?

There is a well defined hierarchy or Atleast when I was a member. In the family structure you follow the Christian standard of Father —> Mother —> children. Then above the Father is leadership. All members have a dedicated leader assigned in what are called fellowship groups. If you need guidance your assigned leader is who you go to. At the top of the leadership chain was Gwen. And then God at the top. 
 

So from top to bottom:

God->Gwen->other leaders->family structure

 

As for the “reporting” it would depend on each person and situation, some would report to their leader, some would email the group email for all of leadership, some would tell the parent first. 

[AmazonGrace]

16 hours ago, Xan said:

That took all of two minutes on Google to refute.  Beef contains phenylalanine.  Aspartame does have phenylalanine as an ingredient but it also contains other things like aspartic acid.  Beef contains zero Aspartame.

 

Aspartame is a methyl ester of  the aspartic acid/phenylalanine dipeptide. Saying that beef contains aspartame because it contains the amino acids that are used to manufacture aspartame in the aspartame factory is a bit like saying I have a bird house because I have some timber and nails.

Never mind baking your pizza. You can just eat some flour, cheese and tomato sauce from the jar, For Gwen sees no difference.

Who did she buy her nutritionist degree from? No way she ever studied any if she didn't know this much.

[quiversR4hunting]

13 hours ago, rabbitholejulie said:

Elizabeth has big platform shoes to fill.

Without the incentive to make it onto the stage with Gwen I would anticipate a big drop off in attendance.  If Michael and Elizabeth were smart they would be front and center, even if it’s just to ask for prayer.  Like you know, a real church.

If they keep playing old videos at church service and no new preaching, what is the incentive to keep attending? How do the people stay connected and feel belonging? The hierarchy that @RFsurvivor explains could keep people in for awhile but it could also make splinter groups. With no live, in person, leadership I don't see how it will survive. So Elizabeth and Michael - Keep up the good work!! Keep phoning (videoing) it in and sit back and cash the donations for your mansions.

[SayonaraLara]

4 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

So Elizabeth and Michael - Keep up the good work!! Keep phoning (videoing) it in and sit back and cash the donations for your mansions.

Reminds me of a talk that was on WD’s subscription service, in which Gwen said that living in a home like hers wasn’t like what people think. It was just about hosting church members/serving the kingdom, and then having to clean it for the next event. And that no one listening would want to have a house that big to clean.

There’s no way with her resources she personally cleaned that huge house. Because I have far less resources and don’t personally clean my way smaller house!

Edited July 23, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[nokidsmom]

On 7/22/2021 at 10:20 AM, Xan said:

I think one of the worst things this country has done is to decide that churches are non-taxable.  It just opened the door to fraud and misuse.  If churches really wanted to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" then they ought to be happy to pay taxes on income produced by the church.  

This reminds me of when I was working retail and we had people make purchases with tax free documentation from churches.   Some of it looked to be legit but some...not so much.

Interesting part of all that...years later after I left this retail outfit, the very religious owners were charged with tax evasion because they claimed religious exemptions for the retail business and got caught.   

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by nokidsmom

[WeirdHarold]

6 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

If they keep playing old videos at church service and no new preaching, what is the incentive to keep attending? How do the people stay connected and feel belonging? The hierarchy that @RFsurvivor explains could keep people in for awhile but it could also make splinter groups. With no live, in person, leadership I don't see how it will survive. So Elizabeth and Michael - Keep up the good work!! Keep phoning (videoing) it in and sit back and cash the donations for your mansions.

Queue some "itching ears" talk to stave off complaints.

[rabbitholejulie]

5 hours ago, WeirdHarold said:

Queue some "itching ears" talk to stave off complaints.

Elizabeth it can't be that hard- talk about how to deny self (from a mansion), throw in some bible verses out of context and invite the extra special saints up on stage to take their bow.

[RFfamANON]

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the leadership meetings these days. Are they strategizing about letting everyone settle before Elizabeth takes the reins full on. Or are they trying to get Elizabeth to step up. Or is it a curfuffle tug of war with one leader saying we should do this and another saying we should do that and another saying we should listen to Elizabeth the double double prophet.  Im betting that at least one person is thinking about double double profit from the double double Prophet. 

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, RFfamANON said:

Im betting that at least one person is thinking about double double profit from the double double Prophet. 

Waxing philosophical & expressing MHO here: RF seems to have a ton of assets including some really nice worship / community-event grounds. 
 

Were there strong leadership who actually wanted to teach the law and the gospel of traditional Christianity, those leaders could really do a lot of good. 
 

Thing is, Jesus called it when he observed how much easier it is for a camel to squeeze thru a needle’s eye, than for a rich person to “get it.” 
 

Looking at Ashlawn and allll the perks surrounding the office of prophet of RF, I’d put money on the profit continuing to guide the prophet. 
 

Also:  A thought about Elizabeth. She hasn’t looked particularly well from photos for quite a while now. Possible she’s just tired & overwhelmed without the husband.  Possibly she’s solidifying her hold on the assets she owns and riding things out for the moment. 
 

Proceeds from the sale of the old George Jones property, alone, could support her and the children comfortably for years, invested well. 
 

Add to that the assets that devolved to her on  her mother’s demise, snd she probably sees no real good reason to knock herself out, right now. 
 

[TDHuggies]

1 hour ago, RFfamANON said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the leadership meetings these days. Are they strategizing about letting everyone settle before Elizabeth takes the reins full on. Or are they trying to get Elizabeth to step up. Or is it a curfuffle tug of war with one leader saying we should do this and another saying we should do that and another saying we should listen to Elizabeth the double double prophet.  Im betting that at least one person is thinking about double double profit from the double double Prophet. 

My guess is that there’s been lots of strategy but any discord is just starting. They were given a reprieve due to the summer camp but that’s ending. Power hates a vacuum so it’s inevitable IF Elizabeth can’t pull it off that things will heat up. Keeping the money train going has suddenly become a top priority…prior to the crash they could pretend it was all about God and the money didn’t matter. But that’s when there was no threat to the money. lol  So yes right about now I’d love to be a fly on the wall too!!

3 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Add to that the assets that devolved to her on  her mother’s demise, snd she probably sees no real good reason to knock herself out, right now. 
 

I’m hoping this is the case! If she’s not all gung-ho maybe that will bring change or let this crazy place fade away. Time Will tell of course. I’m anxiously awaiting to see what happens this service. Starts in 10 minutes or so! 

[TDHuggies]

Well, more camp stuff. Nothing like a group of children chanting to sooth the soul (or cause goosebumps of fear!) 

Then words from Mr. Morgan about how Gwen always talked about preparing others to take over and how ready Michael and Elizabeth and everyone else are and that they’ve done it. *Big round of applause*

He also said it’ll be a testimony day. 
 

Edited July 24, 2021 by TDHuggies

[ManyGoats]

53 minutes ago, TDHuggies said:

He also said it’ll be a testimony day.

Though they are tedious, I sometimes find the testimonies to be revealing. Whatever the current issue is will come out in the testimonies. Harping on 'getting under authority' is one. 'Michael and Elizabeth are the new leaders' is another. I havent' watched today's service yet but over the course of camp, the junior counselors' testimonies were all about how unified everyone was. And, of course, how superior their camp is to all others, even though they've never actually been to any others. And on and on ad nauseam.

[TDHuggies]

9 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:I havent' watched today's service yet but over the course of camp, the junior counselors' testimonies were all about how unified everyone was. And, of course, how superior their camp is to all others, even though they've never actually been to any others. And on and on ad nauseam.

Yes 100% agree they are valuable in getting insight to what the current issues are. Unity was the message again today. Big time.

[RFfamANON]

13 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

I havent' watched today's service yet but over the course of camp, the junior counselors' testimonies were all about how unified everyone was

If they are talking a lot about unity hen I can guarantee there is a ton of disunity. Anyone have any inside scoop on which directions people are being pulled?

[Tibby]

Question for former members- was there ever any discussion in Remnant about the use of medical "family balancing"? First the Boermans, then the Hannahs and then the Michael Shamblins all got their boys after 3 girls. It involves gender selection via IVF. I've never seen a Remnant position on fertility treatment.