Remnant Fellowship 18: The Irony of the Possibly Overweight Plane

[Blue]

2 hours ago, RFfamANON said:

This is why I hate RF!  abuse behind a smile is still abuse.  Abuse disguised as love is still abuse. Abuse is abuse and it’s infuriating that they continue to get away with espousing “beliefs” that promote it  

I agree with this. I can't count how many times we've brought up pretty big theological issues and our family either denys she ever said it (despite LITERAL VIDEO of her saying it), or write it off as she's doing her best and just following what God is telling her heart and we're all still learning to just love God perfectly and blah blah blah.

IMO, when you're leading people spiritually, you have a duty and obligation to get it right, and when you're wrong (because they've tried to say "oh she doesn't teach that anymore") to publicly admit that you were wrong and correct it. I know nobody is perfect, but her theology has more holes then swiss cheese, so I just have a hard time believing she does any more research than a cursory Google search to find a source that somewhat confirm what she's already decided she's doing to say.

I know that's totally different from abuse excused by love - but RF has a pattern of either denying anything bad, or excusing it away with good intentions. 

Edit - I know I probably sound contradictory... But while I do truly believe most are people who have been manipulated into thinking their doing God's will and serving Him, I also think we have a moral obligation to think for ourselves. I don't think they're usually bad people - I do think they need to open their eyes.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Blue
Clarification

[SayonaraLara]

14 hours ago, Blue said:

I went through a very long and difficult processing phase, that included at one point thinking that maybe I was wrong and maybe they were right because their lives were so perfect and wonderful. I'm truly thankful that I snapped out of it and was shown more of the truth behind the façade. It's tough, no doubt.

 

On 7/20/2021 at 12:22 PM, Sarcastically spinster said:

You're seeing that public front.  The ugly realities are much more hidden, and so easy to miss unless either you're personally experiencing them, or else you know the signs to spot what you aren't actually seeing.  

Yes. The facade. The fronting.

When taking classes years ago, WD/Remnant was big on apps like WhatsApp and Marco Polo for “encouragement” (read: love-bombing/recruitment).

Most that was shared was sunshine, rainbows and unicorns, but occasionally members would be more transparent, ask for prayers and divulge “warfare” and “testing” they faced (and quickly snap out of it and “flip it,” as Gwen encouraged, before it could be considered self-focused grumbling and be reported to leadership). They encountered the universal hardships most of us do at some point: financial concerns, job issues, gained weight, health woes, strained family relations, jerky spouses/kids.

It occurred to me that their lives were no better. They were just better at pretending. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[SayonaraLara]

On 7/20/2021 at 12:38 PM, throwaway9988 said:

They then tell you how happy they are, how they are free from certain sins, and how all this “good fruit” is proof that RF’s theology must be true, since the bible says that only a good tree can bear good fruit. This is the trick that well-meaning RF members play on you (and themselves) to ignore all the valid criticisms of RF, and to ignore all of the many instances of “bad fruit” that RF has borne.

And let’s look at the latest Remnant fruit harvest.

A tragic plane crash. (Caused by some combination of incompetence, greed, pride and/or selfish/political ambition.)

Seven people killed. (Several of whom were just “following authority.”)

Top leadership (including the primary visionary/content and revenue source) wiped out.

Authority seized by a bloodline of questionable wellness/worthiness.

Young and grown children who have lost parents/grandparents.

A woman who has lost her spouse and mother being thrust into single motherhood while assuming the reins of a cult and real estate business.

Guardianship/estate disputes.

A tell-all documentary about to be released.

 

It’s not looking too peachy.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[AmazonGrace]

Yeah but on the bright side, all the events are fabulously color coordinated.

[AmazonGrace]

6 hours ago, Blue said:

 But while I do truly believe most are people who have been manipulated into thinking their doing God's will and serving Him, I also think we have a moral obligation to think for ourselves. I don't think they're usually bad people - I do think they need to open their eyes.

I don't know anyone in RF personally so can't speak to that but on a general level I think some of the worst people in the world believe they're doing God's will.

[Blue]

2 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

And let’s look at the latest Remnant fruit harvest.

A tragic plane crash. (Caused by some combination of incompetence, greed, pride and/or selfish/political ambition.)

Seven people killed. (Several of whom were just “following authority.”)

Top leadership (including the primary visionary/content and revenue source) wiped out.

Authority seized by a bloodline of questionable wellness/worthiness.

Young and grown children who have lost parents/grandparents.

A woman who has lost her spouse and mother being thrust into single motherhood while assuming the reins of a cult and real estate business.

Guardianship/estate disputes.

A tell-all documentary about to be released.

 

It’s not looking too peachy.

 

 

 

So I'm nodding as I read, and then my blood pressure rises...

... because naturally when it's RF or their leadership going through trials - it's testing. When it's more "normal" members or people not in RF, then it's discipline and proof that you're not "all in" for God. Our family in RF has gone through alot recently, and it kills me to know that they're in a position to be taught that they're to blame. If only they were more "all in" or more devoted or gave more of their time... then these trials wouldn't have come. (I should point out, nobody in our family has told us that they've been told that their specific problems are a result of their weak faith - but I don't know how you could follow RF's theology and not come to that eventual conclusion.)

I mean... didn't Elizabeth literally teach something along the lines of just how Jesus had to go so the Spirit could come, the 7 had to go so God could send his spirit down on RF? Somehow if it's RF or their leadership it's twisted into a blessing, but if it was another pastor or a political figure they disagreed with, then it would have been God's discipline.

[SayonaraLara]

They really should better scrub the Remnant Fellowship Weddings Facebook page when divorces happen. And they do happen — despite the extravagant covenant ceremonies with meticulous color coordination.

There was no forever.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[freefromthin]

13 minutes ago, SayonaraLara said:

They really should better scrub the Remnant Fellowship Weddings Facebook page when divorces happen. And they do happen.

There was no fourth anniversary nor forever.

 

 

Interesting. On March 26, 2020 they posted about that same couple's 4th anniversary. https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2572037106369696

[SayonaraLara]

2 minutes ago, freefromthin said:

Interesting. On March 26, 2020 they posted about that same couple's 4th anniversary. https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2572037106369696

My bad. The divorce was the following year. I’ve edited my post.

[HereComesTreble]

Remember when Remnant members came on here?  It was at least a year ago.  I believe they said multiple representatives from Remnant  were using one FJ account (which is against FJ rules).

Anyway, I’m curious to re-read what they wrote here—in light of everything that’s happened.

Does anyone know what thread that was in?  If so, would you link it here?  Please and thank you.

[freefromthin]

https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2690278827878856

According to this post celebrating Gwen and Joe's second anniversary, they "set the marital bar" with their "righteous example".

[HereComesTreble]

1 hour ago, freefromthin said:

https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2690278827878856

According to this post celebrating Gwen and Joe's second anniversary, they "set the marital bar" with their "righteous example".

Wow.  The cojones on them.

Edited July 21, 2021 by HereComesTreble
Spelling: cajones vs cojones

[SayonaraLara]

13 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

Remember when Remnant members came on here?  It was at least a year ago.  I believe they said multiple representatives from Remnant  were using one FJ account (which is against FJ rules).

Anyway, I’m curious to re-read what they wrote here—in light of everything that’s happened.

Does anyone know what thread that was in?  If so, would you link it here?  Please and thank you.

There was @RFhmmm for one. But I think there were more.

 

[HereComesTreble]

5 minutes ago, SayonaraLara said:

There was @RFhmmm for one. But I think there were more.

 

Thank you, SayonaraLara.  That was a wild post!  RFhmmm certainly tried their best on that.

That wasn’t the FJ account I am remembering, though.  There was more back and forth postings and it was more of a PR team vs an individual.  
Still, I appreciate the link—RFhmmm’s cognitive dissonance is fascinating.

[SayonaraLara]

9 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

Thank you, SayonaraLara.  That was a wild post!  RFhmmm certainly tried their best on that.

That wasn’t the FJ account I am remembering, though.  There was more back and forth postings and it was more of a PR team vs an individual.  
Still, I appreciate the link—RFhmmm’s cognitive dissonance is fascinating.

Try @InAllFairness.

 

 

[HereComesTreble]

@SayonaraLara, that’s the one!  Thank you!

[Antipatriarch]

And can I just say: "SayonaraLara" is a fantastic user name.  

[throwaway9988]

I just liked a bunch of posts from 2018 ? The things that happened in that old Gwen Shamblin thread were crazy!

Edited July 22, 2021 by throwaway9988

[RFsurvivor]

Man this didn’t age well ?

[DarkSideofHeaven]

Hi y’all.  I’m new here but not to Remnant. I have been lurking here for I don’t know how long now but I have read every thread. I decided to finally join FJ because I wanted to connect with others who have been in Remnant and those who still have family in it. I was a member back in 2002-2003. I left right after the death of the first child (Smith’s) during the summer camp. The little time I was involved was enough for me. I did work my way into the inner circle pretty quick. Funny thing is that I left due to a series of dreams warning me that something big was going to happen and I needed to run. Just wanted to say hi and thank the person who created this. I used to belong to a yahoo group years ago when I first left Remnant. I’m happy to have found this place. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Coconut Flan
Please no text speak.

[Queen Of Hearts]

5 hours ago, freefromthin said:

https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2690278827878856

According to this post celebrating Gwen and Joe's second anniversary, they "set the marital bar" with their "righteous example".

If adultery is a "righteous example" than I guess Gwen and Joe fit the bill.  And those pictures ... Oh my! Gwen in that dress reminds me of the scene in Beatlejuice where the dead couple were in their wedding clothes and then rapidly aged to the point of being true corpses.  I find it interesting there is a picture of Joe's mom but none of Gwen's.  Wonder if her mom was even invited, or maybe refused to endorse the marriage given it's shady origins.

[Ozlsn]

13 hours ago, freefromthin said:

https://www.facebook.com/remnantfellowshipweddings/posts/2690278827878856

According to this post celebrating Gwen and Joe's second anniversary, they "set the marital bar" with their "righteous example".

Given some of the "Joe and Gwen" videos I'm perfectly willing to believe they set a bar... just more with glasses and things.

[Howl]

19 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

but occasionally members would be more transparent, ask for prayers and divulge “warfare” and “testing” they faced (and quickly snap out of it and “flip it,” as Gwen encouraged, before it could be considered self-focused grumbling and be reported to leadership)

The bolded phrase is another huge red flag for this horrible organization. 

Is RF structured in a specifically hierarchical way, with people reporting up the chain when someone strays from the official party line?  Or was it just understood that some people were higher up in the food chain and had to be appeased?

12 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

And can I just say: "SayonaraLara" is a fantastic user name.

Yes, it's my absolute fave as well. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Howl

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

Given some of the "Joe and Gwen" videos I'm perfectly willing to believe they set a bar... just more with glasses and things.

Yes! Gwen and Joe set the well stocked bar for marriage ?

[Howl]

From the @SJWaterford post back in Sept. 2018:

Quote

Anyone watch Ozark on Netflix? All day I've been imagining this scenario in which a church could launder money. Similarities in that they have all of these interconnected businesses and such. LOL. Might make a good show. Just could never figure out the money part of her. 

Yes, churches are PERFECT for laundering money.  Tax exempt, money coming in through tithes, an entity "loaning" money to a church for "construction" or other projects, high status in the community.   So many, many ways for money to slip through the cracks.  This is a problem in the US and globally as well.  

I had found an article about how this works earlier in the week and thought I'd posted it in another thread, but can't find it now.