[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[NoKidsAndCounting]

I hope Josh isn't allowed to attend the birth of M7.  Maybe one of Anna's sisters will come to Arkansas for a week so she won't feel so alone.  I'm not sure what kind of relationship Anna and Meechelle have at the moment.  It could either be very strained, or they might have grown closer.  JB and Meech seemed to have blamed Anna in 2015 when the first Josh news broke, so they might blame her for this, too.  I'm not sure any of them understand that Josh is sick (not excusing his actions), and looking at CSA is not the same as watching pornography.

[Melissa1977]

24 minutes ago, NoKidsAndCounting said:

Maybe one of Anna's sisters will come to Arkansas for a week so she won't feel so alone. 

She is only close to Priscilla. Well, I'm not sure they are really close and even if they are, Pris is too busy to go help Anna. I bet she felt superior than divorced-Rebecca and single-mom-Susanna and their relationships are cold now. And Suzette Keller does not seem to travel for her daughter's deliveries (at least I don't remember it).

Anna needs Michelle. Who else she has? Maybe Jana, and that's all. I'm.sure she will make Mackenzie her best friend. It's not inusual for lonely women to develop a "friendship" with the eldest daughter. It's often a burden for the girl, so I hope it's not the case.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Melissa1977
Clarify

[SassyPants]

Anna should : put the school aged kids in PS, Apply for government assistance, hoard her JB money, sign up for online classes to get her BS degree and eventually a teaching job. She should also get a tubal post this next delivery. 7 children is ENOUGH for any person in her and the pedo’s position. TTH could help out with childcare for the 2 youngest kids. If JB doesn’t play nicely, she should write the damn tell all, AND divorce the idiot.

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

It might be a requirement of post release supervision if he does not complete treatment while incarcerated. When we have sexual offenders on Probation they are required to complete approved specialized sexual offender treatment. I know at our local treatment facility, they are very strict, you can't just show up, You have to participate and follow your treatment plan (which is often 10-12 pages long) to a tee and there is a requirement for family to participate as well. 

What does sex offender treatment entail and how effective is it?  Have studies determined which types/categories of offenders are more or less likely to not re-offend following treatment?

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Anna should : put the school aged kids in PS, Apply for government assistance, hoard her JB money, sign up for online classes to get her BS degree and eventually a teaching job. She should also get a tubal post this next delivery. 7 children is ENOUGH for any person in her and the pedo’s position. TTH could help out with childcare for the 2 youngest kids. If JB doesn’t play nicely, she should write the damn tell all, AND divorce the idiot.

I think it would be horrible for the M kids to be in public school right now. Particularly the oldest one. There is no way that middle school kids wouldn’t be bringing up her Dads charges. That would be a horrifying introduction to the outside world that would likely drive her straight into an early super fundie marriage. 
 

[Idlewild]

5 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I think it would be horrible for the M kids to be in public school right now. Particularly the oldest one. There is no way that middle school kids wouldn’t be bringing up her Dads charges. That would be a horrifying introduction to the outside world that would likely drive her straight into an early super fundie marriage. 
 

I agree- school would be awful for these kids, especially as they have no doubt been told school is a dangerous place in any event.

Anna’s insistence on keeping her kids in the public eye ( and I believe that is Anna, not Josh or JB) means she has placed them in a very difficult position.

At least she has kept off SM so hopefully the kids can grow up in private- it’s a pity it took a court case to give her kids some respect.

I still think Josh will ask to have his bail relaxed to be at the birth- not because he wants to but because he wants a break away and JB will be trying to portray him as a family man with responsibilities- that ship definitely sailed some time ago.

[Dandruff]

I wonder how all the Duggars who have said they want the truth to come to light are feeling about the potential delays in the truth coming to light.

[gustava]

Driving the ISB:  I think Josh is utterly miserable since he is essentially under house arrest with no internet.  He doesn't read, so all he can do is watch TV.  And if Anna brings the children over, what is he going to do with them????  Can't image he knows how to interact with them.  Furthermore, his "warden" has worked in prison ministry and sounds to me like a real hard ass who probably has lengthy prayer sessions with Joshie.  If it is a full mother-in-law suite, then it might have a little kitchen, so Mrs. Warden isn't even cooking for him.  Wonder if Anna brings him food?

[Four is Enough]

15 hours ago, Dandruff said:

What does sex offender treatment entail and how effective is it?  Have studies determined which types/categories of offenders are more or less likely to not re-offend following treatment?

It varies per offense, age of perpetrator, and other factors. It is lengthy, and for juvenile offenders, at least, there is a family component, not to mention that if siblings have been molested, there is therapy (separate) for them and again for the family to support them.. It's long and drawn out, and complicated, and projections can't be made on the basis of just saying "sex offender treatment".

[Pecansforeveryone]

I would love for JB and Michelle to have court mandated family counseling. However, I think JB would do everything possible to avoid including throwing Josh under the bus at every turn. 

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I would love for JB and Michelle to have court mandated family counseling. However, I think JB would do everything possible to avoid including throwing Josh under the bus at every turn. 

Yep I agree, and M kids need to be in school and start moving towards a more grounded life away from Duggarville…they’ll all need counseling, for sure. If not, it’s another lost generation and a furthering of the horrible dysfunction. JB and M need to fix all the damage THEY caused. Best get busy, there’s much work to do. 

[Sullie06]

20 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

Are some restrictions just standard? A man I used to volunteer with through a safer communities organization had a conviction possession of child pornography and one of his conditions was a lifelong ban from buying, serving or consuming alcohol or entering an LC. The man was anaphylactic to alcohol and hadn’t had a drink since he was 18. Is this just a standard condition or did the judge forget to take into account the fact that no alcohol had been involved in the crime? 

Drug and Alcohol conditions, in my jurisdiction at least, are typically standard on all cases. They are in every single offenders T & C's whether substance use was a factor in the crime at all. Everyone has to get at the very least an evaluation. They also have to submit to random drug testing and follow any treatment recommended to them. 

 

18 hours ago, Dandruff said:

What does sex offender treatment entail and how effective is it?  Have studies determined which types/categories of offenders are more or less likely to not re-offend following treatment?

IT varies depending on offense, age of the offender, any co-dependency issues, etc. Our local program is a minimum 12 month intensive treatment that includes both individual and group therapy, treatment for substance and mental health issues and requires 100% compliance. The offenders have to be willing to talk in detail about their offense and what led to it, they have to admit to wrongdoing, they have homework they are required to do. They have to actively participate in therapy sessions. If the perpetrator is a minor, a parent/guardian must participate in the parent group as well.  If the offender's victim was a family member (sibling, child, grandchild, niece/nephew) they often participate in a victims group and they try and rebuild the familial relationships if deemed appropriate. 

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, gustava said:

Driving the ISB:  I think Josh is utterly miserable since he is essentially under house arrest with no internet.  He doesn't read, so all he can do is watch TV.  And if Anna brings the children over, what is he going to do with them????  Can't image he knows how to interact with them.  Furthermore, his "warden" has worked in prison ministry and sounds to me like a real hard ass who probably has lengthy prayer sessions with Joshie.  If it is a full mother-in-law suite, then it might have a little kitchen, so Mrs. Warden isn't even cooking for him.  Wonder if Anna brings him food?

I'm not sure he has any TV other than possibly basic network, since the Rebers don't have internet, and if the network TV has shows with children would he be allowed to watch them?

I'd expect Anna to be bringing the kids over for some awkward visits.  I'd also expect Josh to be wearing pants vs. shorts so he doesn't have to explain the monitoring bracelet on his leg to them.

Maybe the Rebers have Josh doing chores or repair work in their house or on their property?

No doubt he has a KJV bible at his disposal at all times.

[quiversR4hunting]

I would agree the kids need education beyond the dining room table. There are 3 Baptist options which might be an easier transition into formal education than dropping them into public school. 

Life Way Christian School PK-12: https://www.lwcsar.com/about/meet-our-family/ (they need preschool, Anna could get a job too) tuition: http://www.lwcsar.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/21-22-Tuition-Fee-Schedule.pdf 

First Academy K-5: https://www.firstacademynwa.org/ (they need a receptionist) tuition https://www.firstacademynwa.org/admissions/tuition-information 

Shiloh Christian PK-12: https://www.shilohsaints.org/ (They need day care workers at the Springdale campus) tuition: https://www.shilohsaints.org/admissions/tuition/ 

I say all this but I don't see Anna getting a job, moving away from duggarville nor putting her kids in any type of school. She will be a prison widow and have the church take care of her and the kids. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
added tuition rates

[postscript]

What Anna should do and what she will do are two very different things. I don’t see her putting her kids in any kind of school or taking steps to become self-supporting. 

Interesting if Josh has to go through drug and alcohol conditions. I doubt drugs of any kind are an issue. However, while I don’t think he has an alcohol problem, I suspect he’s had more exposure to alcohol than he’s willing to admit. Given his apparent secret life, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn he drinks occasionally.  Nothing wrong with that, except he’s publicly proclaiming abstinence. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

3 hours ago, Dandruff said:

if the network TV has shows with children would he be allowed to watch them?

Sure. Network television, unlike the internet, doesn’t have illegal images of children. Even in prison, he’s going to be watching TV.

[JenniferJuniper]

Josh's trial has been delayed until November.

The only source I've seen is Fox so I'm not linking.

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I would agree the kids need education beyond the dining room table. There are 3 Baptist options which might be an easier transition into formal education than dropping them into public school. 

Life Way Christian School PK-12: https://www.lwcsar.com/about/meet-our-family/ (they need preschool, Anna could get a job too) tuition: http://www.lwcsar.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/21-22-Tuition-Fee-Schedule.pdf 

First Academy K-5: https://www.firstacademynwa.org/ (they need a receptionist) tuition https://www.firstacademynwa.org/admissions/tuition-information 

Shiloh Christian PK-12: https://www.shilohsaints.org/ (They need day care workers at the Springdale campus) tuition: https://www.shilohsaints.org/admissions/tuition/ 

I say all this but I don't see Anna getting a job, moving away from duggarville nor putting her kids in any type of school. She will be a prison widow and have the church take care of her and the kids. 

Wasn’t JB in the first graduating class of Shiloh Christian? Seems like he could grift some help with the costs.

Just an FYI, private schools are often the attraction of very naughty children;  kids who have been given the heave-Ho from PS. I wouldn’t say kids at religious based schools are any kinder than their peers schooled in other systems. 
 

Your dad is a pervert and deviant, how much harsher can your life get? Counseling, counseling, counseling and more counseling. Isolation is only prolonging the problems. 

 

[Mrs. Kravitz]

16 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Just an FYI, private schools are often the attraction of very naughty children;  kids who have been given the heave-Ho from PS. I wouldn’t say kids at religious based schools are any kinder than their peers schooled in other systems. 

The main difference I've found, in my experience, is that private school kids learn how to act in public and in front of adults so as not to arouse suspicion. 

[Caroline]

22 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

ust an FYI, private schools are often the attraction of very naughty children;  kids who have been given the heave-Ho from PS. I wouldn’t say kids at religious based schools are any kinder than their peers schooled in other systems. 

In the public school where I teach we've had so many kids come back to the district after getting expelled from everything from two elite prep schools, a mediocre private (not religious school), a Christian school and a Catholic school.   Their parents are always embarrassed because they were usually the biggest snobs about how their precious offspring were just too good for public schools.  The kids themselves in general don't perform any better in our school and often get into the same kind of trouble that got them expelled in the first place.

 I would agree from interactions with friends of mine whose kids have attended mostly religious schools that kids are not necessarily nicer in those private schools.  

[Bethy]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Even in prison, he’s going to be watching TV.

Are you sure? I remember reading an article (in a print magazine along the lines of Family Circle or Women's Day, I don't remember which one) several years ago about a single mom whose live-in boyfriend got caught by one of those "To Catch A Predator" types of stings where he thought he was talking to a teenage girl but it was really a cop, and he got arrested. One of the terms of his release was that he not have any contact with children or any materials that featured children. So the article went into the mom's thought process of realizing that while if she really wanted to stand by her man, she COULD have him over when her tween daughters were at their dad's, but that she would have to remove all their pictures, as well as any media involving children, from the home (the article specifically mentioned Olsen twins movies, which were trendy then - that's how long ago this article was from) and she realized that having to jettison any reference to her own daughters just to have her boyfriend over for a date was not something she was willing to do and she kicked him to the curb.

So while I don't doubt there's TV in prison, I'm wondering if there might be limitations on what he can and can't watch if children are involved.

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Your dad is a pervert and deviant, how much harsher can your life get? Counseling, counseling, counseling and more counseling. Isolation is only prolonging the problems. 

 

Even if the family conspiracy were to turn out to be right and it's all a frame-up (I mean, heck, let's go ahead and pretend all his other transgressions were also fabricated and he's an innocent man) the fact that their dad was arrested, separated from them, and their family's name collectively dragged through the mud and people will remember this for DECADES warrants ALL the counseling. Their ACES scores are high enough already.

[Expectopatronus]

@Bethy Unfortunately, you are 100% right. Even if evidence showed that the images on Josh’s computer had not been accessed by him, the public will still assume that Josh is guilty. The poor kids are not going to be able to escape the “your dad is a pedophile” stigma. Hopefully, some or all of them will move away from NWA as adults and start fresh. If Anna keeps them off SM and the show, they will have a better chance of being relatively anonymous in a large city by the time Michael is 18. 

[myusername]

I really doubt that if he's in "gen pop" that they'd monitor what he saw on TV. It seems like a lot of work for the prison. No?

Maybe he wouldn't be in gen pop

[Antimony]

3 hours ago, Bethy said:

Are you sure? I remember reading an article (in a print magazine along the lines of Family Circle or Women's Day, I don't remember which one) several years ago about a single mom whose live-in boyfriend got caught by one of those "To Catch A Predator" types of stings where he thought he was talking to a teenage girl but it was really a cop, and he got arrested. One of the terms of his release was that he not have any contact with children or any materials that featured children. So the article went into the mom's thought process of realizing that while if she really wanted to stand by her man, she COULD have him over when her tween daughters were at their dad's, but that she would have to remove all their pictures, as well as any media involving children, from the home (the article specifically mentioned Olsen twins movies, which were trendy then - that's how long ago this article was from) and she realized that having to jettison any reference to her own daughters just to have her boyfriend over for a date was not something she was willing to do and she kicked him to the curb.

So while I don't doubt there's TV in prison, I'm wondering if there might be limitations on what he can and can't watch if children are involved.

Snipped! 

So, I dont know anybody incarcerated for sex crimes but I do know other inmates, so;

1. As you suspect, there is TV.

2. Rules about media content are incredibly vague or weirdly specific, subject to frequent changes and often inconsistent. Some prisons operate on a "no R rated movies" rule and whatever they deem to be the equivalent for video games (M, I suppose?).

3. Most prisons limit nudity images of any kind including but not limited to - medical textbooks, art, famous Renaissance paintings, self-help books on any physical ailment, drawing resources. I may have, perhaps, taken an Exacto to a perfectly beautiful coffee table book of prints of work from the National Gallery to make it acceptable to prison standards. No boobies. 

But I doubt any of this will matter for Josh because most people with crimes like his and even mild fame end up in protective custody so he may not even have access to a TV or Rec Room. Some inmates have tablets - these are usually running on an Intranet, and as far as I can tell are like closed machines for running incredibly nonoffensive and unobjectionable content (nature documentaries seem popular. But, survival shows and books are usually banned, so it's a toss up on if a book on gardening is getting turned around at some places.) Unclear if he would meet permission conditions for tablet access (unlikely?).

Of course, this all just comes from what I can glean from pen pals and other prison activists, but its likely to be a non-issue if he ends up in PC anyway. 

Most baffling prison media content bans include but are not limited to: the entire Alex Cross series, any book about crime (as if inmates don't know about crime??), books about jail (as if inmates dont know about jail??), anything by Anne Rice (???), and a rejection I saw online just today -- books on calligraphy. 

 

 

 

[Expectopatronus]

Books on calligraphy?? Fancy writing is a threat to rehabilitation? I gather Anne Rice wrote some erotica so I can understand that ban but gardening makes no sense. Oh, dear! Josh might get tips on how to plant and tend a garden large enough to feed his family! Gasp in horror.