[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[Coconut Flan]

I have missed some point with workbooks.  They're allowed to have writing paper.  What makes a workbook worse?  

[SPHASH]

1 hour ago, GiggleOfGirls said:

And now Bill Cosby’s conviction has apparently been overturned due to “prosecutorial mistakes.” I hope to goodness the prosecutors don’t mess up their case against Josh. It went so quickly from him not being released early because of his refusal to participate in sex offender programs to this…

(to be very clear: yes, everyone deserves due process, this development has just made me more nervous about Josh’s case and has caused a slight bit of mental whiplash)
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bill-cosby-be-released-after-sexual-assault-conviction-overturned-pennsylvania-n1272748

I'm really disheartened after reading that.  Not only I'm worried that Josh may get off on a technicality but Trump will as well.

[Rachel333]

Regarding Jasper Fforde, he apparently has come around on fanfiction, and there's even a quote from one of the Thursday Next books that says "fanfiction isn't copying - it's a celebration."

(And honestly, while I'm not anti-fanfiction and used to read a lot of it when I was in my early teens, I do get why - right or wrong - authors might be uncomfortable with it and in Fforde's case I see how he would have felt that using the worlds of old, famous books where the authors are dead and the works are in the public domain was different from using a universe that the author is still actively publishing books in.)

I'm also commenting on Fforde because I've long been kind of annoyed with myself for not responding the last time I talked about Fforde on FJ. I had said that I thought his Thursday Next was fun reading if you like books, and someone (not trying to obfuscate - I genuinely don't remember who) responded, said "No" to my opinion, and talked about how awful Fforde is for his views on fanfiction. I was taken aback by what felt like being told my opinion was wrong so I didn't respond, but then was pretty annoyed with myself for not defending my opinion, so I'm doing it now! I think it's okay that I enjoyed Jasper Fforde's books even if he has a problematic stance on fanfiction! 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Rachel333

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

I have missed some point with workbooks.  They're allowed to have writing paper.  What makes a workbook worse?  

There is almost never a point, honestly. They don't have to give you one, either, or a real explanation. The cruelty seems to be the point.

Some places also do not allow journals. This is usually because they sell them in commissary at an absurd mark-up, especially for people making 16cents/hour. Some do not allow coloring books, the reason why is still unclear to me. 

Edit: Also, I get that people are looking for a "logical" reason for content bans but there...just isn't one, and there won't be one. The point is just censorship and to serve to isolate and dehumanize people. They're just random and inconsistent and sometimes depending only on who is on mail duty, a total crapshoot. Some places keep official lists, some people don't and you just have to guess based on what has been returned before. 

Edit Edit: BONUS CONTENT - Behold, a restrictions list for one prison, who's name I'm not going to list here. All of these were learned by error because it's just like, the whims of the mail room guards.

Quote

NO names on inside of cover. NO rape or incest scenes in book. NO sex-crimes in plot. NO graph paper. NO sexually explicit including medical photos of genitalia, NO colored paper.

REJECTED: Mama by Terri McM 2nd Chance, London Bridge, or Kiss the GIrls by James Patterson, Silence of the Lambs by Thomas Harrison, It or Bag of Bones by Stephen King, Rage to Kill by Ann Rule, Color Purple by Alice Walker, Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison, Malice by Danielle Steel, Almost Dead by Lisa Jackson, Cross by James Patterson, Waiting by Ha Jin, Angel of Darkness by Caleb Carr, Mind Prey by John Sanford, Crashing Down by Meg O’Brien, My First White Friend by Patricia Raybon, White Oleander by Janet Fitch, Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Auel

(From another prison in the same state - no books about queer content, especially if it's obvious by the front OR back cover, because they will reject it.)

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Antimony

[BullyJBG]

I just saw breaking news that Bill Cosby was released from jail/prison; whatever you call it. Now I want him and Josh to have to live in "house arrest" together. And Anna and the kids move in with Mrs Cosby,,,,,,,,,,,

[Expectopatronus]

@Antimony I know you said that there aren’t always reasons but I can also be clued out when it comes to alternative uses for things. I get not allowing rape scenes, graphic violence etc but how is graph paper or coloured paper a problem? Besides using graph paper for math, how else could it be used? I’ve never read LGBTQ+ literature because I don’t like romance novels of any kind (anything stronger than kissing makes me uncomfortable. Yes, I am weird and I am learning to not hate myself for being uncomfortable with sexual content) but besides homophobia, why would these be banned? How is it any different than say, Danielle Steele or Outlander books? 
Would LGBTQ+ history or social Justice books be banned too? 

[Antimony]

1 minute ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Antimony I know you said that there aren’t always reasons but I can also be clued out when it comes to alternative uses for things. I get not allowing rape scenes, graphic violence etc but how is graph paper or coloured paper a problem? Besides using graph paper for math, how else could it be used? I’ve never read LGBTQ+ literature because I don’t like romance novels of any kind (anything stronger than kissing makes me uncomfortable. Yes, I am weird and I am learning to not hate myself for being uncomfortable with sexual content) but besides homophobia, why would these be banned? How is it any different than say, Danielle Steele or Outlander books? 
Would LGBTQ+ history or social Justice books be banned too? 

You're not missing anything. I promise it's just absurd.

Yes, anything about queer history or memoirs or non-romance fiction would get turned around. There is no point. I never figured out the graph paper "reason". I don't really read any romance novels so I'm a bit taken aback by the idea that most queer literature is romance. So, just for fun, and since I'm waiting for some samples to be ready, I'll just put everything queer I've read and liked in the past few years in the spoiler below, no romance!

Spoiler

Otherside Picnic - Iori Miyazawa (Science Fiction, Horror, urban legends)
Whipping Girl - Julia Serano (Non-fiction, Women's Studies, Considered a foundational text for some Women's Studies courses)
Yuri Bear Storm #1 - Kunihiko Ikuhara (Magical...realism? Psychological? This one is hard to place.)
Kiss the Girls and Make Them Spy - Mabel Maney (Some people put this in romance, I wouldn't. It's a James Bond Parody, Espionage type deal. James Bond's sister is needed by the UK Government. She otherwise would prefer to spend her time working at a book store and smoking cigarettes, not impersonate 007.)
Wilder Girls - Rory Power (Science Fiction, Horror)
Heroes and Exiles: Gay Icons Through the Ages - Tom Ambrose (non-fiction, biography, reference)
The Witch Boy - Molly Ostertag (Comics, Fantasy, Coming-of-age)
Sawkill Girls - Claire Legrand (Horror, Mystery, Romance is B-plot)
An Unkindness of Ghosts - Rivers Solomon (Sci-Fi, Horror)
The Merry Spinster: Tales of Everyday Horror - Molly Ortberg (Horror, Modernized Fairytales)
Dreadnought - April Daniels (Science Fiction, Superheroes)
Lilith's Brood Trilogy - Octavia Butler (We can debate this being queer, but Butler has enough really good takes on gender in this series that I'd count it.) 
What Happened to Lani Garver - Carol Plum-Ucci (Coming of Age?)
Into the Drowning Deep - Mira Grant (Horror, Mermaids, Science fiction, Romance B-plot with nearly no sexual description)
 

 

[onekidanddone]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:53 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

They were featured in a kids' series called "Life at the Pond ". (I thought it was a video, but apparently it's audio only.)

https://lifeatthepond.com/products/19-000-frogs-counting

https://www.duggarfamily.com/favorite/life-at-the-pond/

Pond life, pond scum...

An ex boyfriend of mine earned the name ‘Swamp Thing’. Very fitting 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 hours ago, BullyJBG said:

I just saw breaking news that Bill Cosby was released from jail/prison; whatever you call it. Now I want him and Josh to have to live in "house arrest" together. And Anna and the kids move in with Mrs Cosby,,,,,,,,,,,

Have you heard of “Kevin can f**k himself” on AMC? It’s a show that’s half traditional sitcom (or a parody of a “King of Queens” type sitcom) and half crime show, where Kevin’s wife plots his murder. Anyway, I feel like that setup would be a horrific crossover between “The Cosby Show,” “19 Kids & Counting,” and “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.”

[monkeyrocks71]

Who do you think will end up collecting all the child tax payments starting next month? Josh/Anna’s gonna get somewhere between $1500-1800 a month, and then another $300/month once Seven is born (I don’t know the exact ages of their kids).

If I were her, I’d take that money and run. She’d qualify for all kinds of extra assistance - I’m not in Arkansas, but here the community college has selected health career training that is free AND includes child care and transportation for people under income limits so, she could even train for a job if there’s something similar out there.  And then you figure WIC, food stamps, possibly TANF, etc. If I had $1800 in cash coming in each month on top of that?  Heck yeah I’d be out the door. (I’m aware it’s not a windfall, but, it is still a significant sum of cash, especially if you make use of all the assistance available to you).

We know she won’t though, and that money will probably be funnelled to Smuggar’s defense. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by monkeyrocks71
I know $2K isn’t a ton of money

[gustava]

20 hours ago, GiggleOfGirls said:

And now Bill Cosby’s conviction has apparently been overturned due to “prosecutorial mistakes.” I hope to goodness the prosecutors don’t mess up their case against Josh. It went so quickly from him not being released early because of his refusal to participate in sex offender programs to this…

(to be very clear: yes, everyone deserves due process, this development has just made me more nervous about Josh’s case and has caused a slight bit of mental whiplash)
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bill-cosby-be-released-after-sexual-assault-conviction-overturned-pennsylvania-n1272748

The DA who f*cked up was also an attorney for the orange cult leader.

20 hours ago, GiggleOfGirls said:

And now Bill Cosby’s conviction has apparently been overturned due to “prosecutorial mistakes.” I hope to goodness the prosecutors don’t mess up their case against Josh. It went so quickly from him not being released early because of his refusal to participate in sex offender programs to this…

(to be very clear: yes, everyone deserves due process, this development has just made me more nervous about Josh’s case and has caused a slight bit of mental whiplash)
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bill-cosby-be-released-after-sexual-assault-conviction-overturned-pennsylvania-n1272748

The DA who f*cked up was also an attorney for the orange cult leader.

[OHFL2009]

16 minutes ago, gustava said:

The DA who f*cked up was also an attorney for the orange cult leader.

He was in the same fraternity as my dad in college. When it was announced that he was representing Trump my dad's response was something along the lines of "he was an arrogant asshole 35 years ago, I can't imagine much has changed since then." I didn't get the impression my dad thought highly of him. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

20 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Regarding Jasper Fforde, he apparently has come around on fanfiction, and there's even a quote from one of the Thursday Next books that says "fanfiction isn't copying - it's a celebration."

(And honestly, while I'm not anti-fanfiction and used to read a lot of it when I was in my early teens, I do get why - right or wrong - authors might be uncomfortable with it and in Fforde's case I see how he would have felt that using the worlds of old, famous books where the authors are dead and the works are in the public domain was different from using a universe that the author is still actively publishing books in.)

I'm also commenting on Fforde because I've long been kind of annoyed with myself for not responding the last time I talked about Fforde on FJ. I had said that I thought his Thursday Next was fun reading if you like books, and someone (not trying to obfuscate - I genuinely don't remember who) responded, said "No" to my opinion, and talked about how awful Fforde is for his views on fanfiction. I was taken aback by what felt like being told my opinion was wrong so I didn't respond, but then was pretty annoyed with myself for not defending my opinion, so I'm doing it now! I think it's okay that I enjoyed Jasper Fforde's books even if he has a problematic stance on fanfiction! 

I'm glad to hear he's changed his mind. It really is, for so many writers, because they enjoy the source material, not because of any other reason!

I wasn't the one who responded before (though I remember seeing you or someone else mention it in an earlier thread), but even besides his opinion on fanfiction, I really didn't enjoy Thursday Next. I couldn't get into it, I didn't like the characters or have an easy time following it... For whatever reason, it didn't hook me.

17 hours ago, Antimony said:

You're not missing anything. I promise it's just absurd.

Yes, anything about queer history or memoirs or non-romance fiction would get turned around. There is no point. I never figured out the graph paper "reason". I don't really read any romance novels so I'm a bit taken aback by the idea that most queer literature is romance. So, just for fun, and since I'm waiting for some samples to be ready, I'll just put everything queer I've read and liked in the past few years in the spoiler below, no romance!

  Hide contents

Otherside Picnic - Iori Miyazawa (Science Fiction, Horror, urban legends)
Whipping Girl - Julia Serano (Non-fiction, Women's Studies, Considered a foundational text for some Women's Studies courses)
Yuri Bear Storm #1 - Kunihiko Ikuhara (Magical...realism? Psychological? This one is hard to place.)
Kiss the Girls and Make Them Spy - Mabel Maney (Some people put this in romance, I wouldn't. It's a James Bond Parody, Espionage type deal. James Bond's sister is needed by the UK Government. She otherwise would prefer to spend her time working at a book store and smoking cigarettes, not impersonate 007.)
Wilder Girls - Rory Power (Science Fiction, Horror)
Heroes and Exiles: Gay Icons Through the Ages - Tom Ambrose (non-fiction, biography, reference)
The Witch Boy - Molly Ostertag (Comics, Fantasy, Coming-of-age)
Sawkill Girls - Claire Legrand (Horror, Mystery, Romance is B-plot)
An Unkindness of Ghosts - Rivers Solomon (Sci-Fi, Horror)
The Merry Spinster: Tales of Everyday Horror - Molly Ortberg (Horror, Modernized Fairytales)
Dreadnought - April Daniels (Science Fiction, Superheroes)
Lilith's Brood Trilogy - Octavia Butler (We can debate this being queer, but Butler has enough really good takes on gender in this series that I'd count it.) 
What Happened to Lani Garver - Carol Plum-Ucci (Coming of Age?)
Into the Drowning Deep - Mira Grant (Horror, Mermaids, Science fiction, Romance B-plot with nearly no sexual description)
 

 

New release I'd like to suggest: YA fantasy novel, Sweet and Bitter Magic.

[nolongerIFBx]

19 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Antimony I know you said that there aren’t always reasons but I can also be clued out when it comes to alternative uses for things. I get not allowing rape scenes, graphic violence etc but how is graph paper or coloured paper a problem? Besides using graph paper for math, how else could it be used? I’ve never read LGBTQ+ literature because I don’t like romance novels of any kind (anything stronger than kissing makes me uncomfortable. Yes, I am weird and I am learning to not hate myself for being uncomfortable with sexual content) but besides homophobia, why would these be banned? How is it any different than say, Danielle Steele or Outlander books? 
Would LGBTQ+ history or social Justice books be banned too? 

Maybe because prisons are usually segregated by sex and they think (ignorantly, wrongly) that if the inmates read a LGBTQ romance that they would all the sudden be overcome with the need to molest their fellow inmates or suddenly realize they're gay and be inspired to act on a consensual attraction?

[Expectopatronus]

@nolongerIFBx You’re probably right. We’ve had parents keep their kids home from school on Pink Shirt Day because they think that instead of just an anti bullying stance, it is specifically anti transphobia/homophobia  and that we will be teaching kids “how to be gay or trans”. I was glad that these idiots called rather than scheduling an appointment so I could repeatedly roll my eyes. Yes, sexual orientation and identity are definitely taught and not innate at all. Morons. And kids learning to embrace diversity and be inclusive is the worst thing possible that could happen in middle years. 
 

[BlackberryGirl]

Graph paper could be used to make plans of the prison. You know your stride is 2 ft and the main hall way is 340strides, that hall is 170 feet   Project that onto graph paper.

[CyborgKin]

On 7/1/2021 at 12:19 AM, Antimony said:

However, as somebody who writes a genre of fanfiction I describe as,  "Things that could have happened in the canon, in the background, but weren't ever shown or explored, and are always Rated E for Everyone and are Mostly About Being Kind", my fellow AO3 authors are wild. 

Your genre needs more authors, thanks!

Helpful reminder to the unwary: on AO3, E is for Explicit not for Everyone  

[Jigsaw3]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:39 AM, FiveAcres said:

I am loving the fanfiction discussion. One of my favorite authors (initials LMB) seems perfectly fine with fanfiction, and is even thought  to have written it before she wrote her first novel. (Her first novel was reported to be Star Trek fanfiction with the serial numbers filed off, but she went on to write a number of other novels and shorts which show she was using her authentic voice even in that first novel. IMO, she was just using some tropes beloved among fans of Star Trek fanfiction.) In fact, she has written at least two novels which I consider to be fan service, if not fanfiction written in her own universe. 

I assume you mean GJRQ? That one is definitely fan service, and unfortunately suffers for it. I like J and can buy the J/A relationship retcon to a point, but I feel it's pushed too far. Which other one were you thinking? Maybe CVA, but I feel that CVA stands up to its predecessors, so even if it's somewhat service it's a worthy addition to the canon.

LMB is fine with fanfiction but refuses to read it, I believe, as she doesn't want to be influenced or give anyone grounds to charge her with plagiarism. I think that's a very valid boundary! The various other copyright/plagiarim dustups mentioned here do support that attitude.

[CyborgKin]

2 minutes ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I assume you mean GJRQ? That one is definitely fan service, and unfortunately suffers for it. I like J and can buy the J/A relationship retcon to a point, but I feel it's pushed too far. Which other one were you thinking? Maybe CVA, but I feel that CVA stands up to its predecessors, so even if it's somewhat service it's a worthy addition to the canon.

LMB is fine with fanfiction but refuses to read it, I believe, as she doesn't want to be influenced or give anyone grounds to charge her with plagiarism. I think that's a very valid boundary! The various other copyright/plagiarim dustups mentioned here do support that attitude.

I believe authors/creators in generally are legally advised to stay away from fanfic of their works for that very reason, yes.

[FiveAcres]

8 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

I assume you mean GJRQ? That one is definitely fan service, and unfortunately suffers for it. I like J and can buy the J/A relationship retcon to a point, but I feel it's pushed too far. Which other one were you thinking? Maybe CVA, but I feel that CVA stands up to its predecessors, so even if it's somewhat service it's a worthy addition to the canon.

LMB is fine with fanfiction but refuses to read it, I believe, as she doesn't want to be influenced or give anyone grounds to charge her with plagiarism. I think that's a very valid boundary! The various other copyright/plagiarim dustups mentioned here do support that attitude.

Those were the two I was thinking of. Nice to see another fan here. ?

[FundamentallyShocked]

7 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Those were the two I was thinking of. Nice to see another fan here. ?

LMB??  I love a good fanfiction writer. Can you give me their name or DM me with this, please??

[Antimony]

10 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Your genre needs more authors, thanks!

Helpful reminder to the unwary: on AO3, E is for Explicit not for Everyone  

Hah, I trust transposed to a more common rating system! I promise they're all super fluffy and warning-free (outside of like, canonical character death mentioned). 

The biggest warning to be wary though, while we're here: dont eat a dead dove! (I love this tag, it's like a big DO NOT CLICK sign for me.)

[Free Jana Duggar]

I've been wondering if there could be anything that might get Anna to leave Josh.  I think she knows what CSA is. She knows it involves inappropriate touching and probably has an idea of various acts it might entail.  However, I believe that's as far as most people choose to go because it's so disturbing.  

I went down the unfortunate rabbit hole and read about that pedophile monster in Australia who abused an 18 month old baby. There was only maybe a 2 sentence description of the video, and it made me sick. I would never have even imagined.

Maybe investigators should sit Anna down and make her watch it for herself. You can't unsee something like that (heck, I can't unsee the words I read that described it).  They need make her watch it and then get in her face and remind her that she has a baby that age and that's what her husband was watching on his computer.

If she wouldn't leave after that, then she needs her kids taken away.

Just my rant for today.    

[closetcagebaby]

31 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

I've been wondering if there could be anything that might get Anna to leave Josh.  I think she knows what CSA is. She knows it involves inappropriate touching and probably has an idea of various acts it might entail.  However, I believe that's as far as most people choose to go because it's so disturbing.  

I went down the unfortunate rabbit hole and read about that pedophile monster in Australia who abused an 18 month old baby. There was only maybe a 2 sentence description of the video, and it made me sick. I would never have even imagined.

Maybe investigators should sit Anna down and make her watch it for herself. You can't unsee something like that (heck, I can't unsee the words I read that described it).  They need make her watch it and then get in her face and remind her that she has a baby that age and that's what her husband was watching on his computer.

If she wouldn't leave after that, then she needs her kids taken away.

Just my rant for today.    

I get where you’re coming from but advocating for police to force someone to watch child sexual abuse videos is a pretty heinous thing imo. 

[Free Jana Duggar]

1 hour ago, closetcagebaby said:

I get where you’re coming from but advocating for police to force someone to watch child sexual abuse videos is a pretty heinous thing imo. 

Yea I  know.  I'm not really wishing for that, just wondering if even that would shock her into leaving...