[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[Idlewild]

25 minutes ago, xenobia said:

 

We don't know what came first. It's possible (but not likely) that Anna introduced her brother to Hanna Reber after she got to know them better. She probably hangs out there more or less every day. But honestly I think we just found out why they took Josh in. It's not just about doing the Duggars a huge favour, it's about their relationship with the Keller family. 

But wouldn’t they tell the judge that? They don’t have to go into details about how they knew the Kellers, just say we are acquainted with the Keller family and have met JB through church. 
If this was happening before the bail hearing then I trust Mr Reber even less. He wants in with this shit show. His daughter is beautiful, by all accounts talented and has her own profession- why would you want her involved with the Kellers and have a paedophile as uncle to her children? He would have had to consent to her getting to know David Keller.

[Melissa1977]

16 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I realize I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Josh is a believer. 

Why do people find it difficult to believe that someone lose their faith? People stop believing all the time. I almost know no believers (at least, among young people). Yes, it is enterely possible that Josh is a believer, but also possible than he (or some of his siblings) do not believe in any god, even since their childhood or teen ages. It would be absolutely normal (but of course it would be very hard for them to be open about that).

[sixcatatty]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

But wouldn’t they tell the judge that? They don’t have to go into details about how they knew the Kellers, just say we are acquainted with the Keller family and have met JB through church. 
If this was happening before the bail hearing then I trust Mr Reber even less. He wants in with this shit show. His daughter is beautiful, by all accounts talented and has her own profession- why would you want her involved with the Kellers and have a paedophile as uncle to her children? He would have had to consent to her getting to know David Keller.

If I'm the AUSA, I'm having somebody (paralegal or investigator) keeping an eye on Reber/Duggar and maybe Keller social media. I would probably put a motion on for the Rebers and at least JBob Duggar to come to court to explain the circumstances a bit more.

The reason: I don't want a criminal appellate lawyer like me trying ot make an issue of it on appeal should Josh go to trial and be convicted. Keep the proceedings as clean and locked down as possible. 

[Giraffe]

Maybe I’m naive, but why should the Reber’s have told the judge their daughter’s dating Anna’s brother? Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely horrified at this new discovery (and now it makes sense why the Reber’s agreed to house Josh) but why would that info need to be disclosed?

[anjulibai]

47 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Why do people find it difficult to believe that someone lose their faith? People stop believing all the time. I almost know no believers (at least, among young people). Yes, it is enterely possible that Josh is a believer, but also possible than he (or some of his siblings) do not believe in any god, even since their childhood or teen ages. It would be absolutely normal (but of course it would be very hard for them to be open about that).

Because there is no evidence of it. 

Because there is evidence that he's still drinking the koolaid.

Because being a pedophile is NOT evidence of loss of faith. 

Because it's offensive to suggest his behavior is evidence of loss of faith. 

6 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Maybe I’m naive, but why should the Reber’s have told the judge their daughter’s dating Anna’s brother? Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely horrified at this new discovery (and now it makes sense why the Reber’s agreed to house Josh) but why would that info need to be disclosed?

 

Conflict of interest. It makes them potential family to Anna, and they are supposed to be a neutral third party.

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Conflict of interest. It makes them potential family to Anna, and they are supposed to be a neutral third party.

Oh, right. My brain is mush from moving and job hunting but now that you say it that makes sense. 

[llucie]

5 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

 

 

Conflict of interest. It makes them potential family to Anna, and they are supposed to be a neutral third party.

I thought it was fine if he was to stay with family as long as they had no minors at home. 

[anjulibai]

4 minutes ago, llucie said:

I thought it was fine if he was to stay with family as long as they had no minors at home. 

That may be, but the judge needs to know that they are or could be family. They told the judge they knew Josh only slightly and JB and Michelle through church. No mention of Anna's family at all, as I recall. That's just not okay. The judge has a right to decide the connection is too close and potentially leading the Rebers to allow things they shouldn't. 

[Antimony]

Just now, anjulibai said:

That may be, but the judge needs to know that they are or could be family. They told the judge they knew Josh only slightly and JB and Michelle through church. No mention of Anna's family at all, as I recall. That's just not okay. The judge has a right to decide the connection is too close and potentially leading the Rebers to allow things they shouldn't. 

This. I pulled up the notes on the Reddit from the bond hearing. The Judge does as Mrs Reber if she felt "any obligation". It's unclear to me what is specifically asking, but this should have counted as "some obligation" to share, even if the judge could have deemed it an acceptable level of obligation. 

[Meggo]

3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

 

I think Joshley does believe in the sense that he thinks he has faith but it is around doing and saying the right things including when he gets caught.    It's not something that is internalized to the point that it really guides his actions or causes any real remorse when he does make mistakes.  He sees things as "sin" but doesn't truly grasp it as something to to feel sorry about or repent of.    It's something that can be wiped away by doing or saying the expected things. 

 

 

I would even go one further and say that it's not even HIS FAULT when he sins. The Devil tempted him and he was weak. So he did it. But if it weren't for the devil - he wouldn't have done it - so it's the devil. 

[Idlewild]

My view is that Mr Reber downplayed his relationship with them- JB was an acquaintance through church who asked him a favour. He knew he and his wife would be policing Anna’s visits so the connection to Anna was a material fact. Would it have made a difference to the outcome? Probably not. However it does show that Reber is prepared to hold back on full disclosure and that it very dangerous when you’re housing a paedophile.

[Melissa1977]

23 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Because it's offensive to suggest his behavior is evidence of loss of faith. 

In no way I suggested that. Believers are not less criminal than atheists. Maybe it's me, but I know many people who lose their faith when they were young and I know so few believers (apart from elders), that I find normal that Josh (or another person raised fundie) stops believing. That happens a lot. I bet there are fundies that don't believe, but pretend because the appeal of the community or because the power they obtain.

[Coconut Flan]

I'm getting deja vu from the days when people said Josh wouldn't cheat because he made vows in church before God.  We saw how that turned out.  

Josh could or could not retain some level of belief.  If he has belief left, IMO it's very shallow and minimal.  Given his family and that he's dependent on JB for support through his own shiftlessness it seems, he's made himself stuck in a position of whether he believes or not, he has to go through the motions.  JB won't cut him off for his sexual perversions, but to openly flout their religious conventions would probably end the support.  

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

JB won't cut him off for his sexual perversions, but to openly flout their religious conventions would probably end the support.  

In a normal world, i.e. not the Twilight Zone or the Upside Down, Josh's perversions would be tantamount to flouting their religious conventions.

I'm an atheist.  Been one since I hit the age of reason around seven years old.  So I confess that I really have no concept of what "belief" actually is.  I was told I needed to have faith, but I never could find it and it's never found me.  But with that said, I don't see anything "good" or "decent" or "humane" or "kind" about any of these fundie freaks.  They use their supposed religion as their cover to use and abuse women and children as if they were property, playthings, or personal slaves. 

So as far as I'm concerned, Josh is Jim Bob and Jim Bob is Josh.  May they rot in their own personal hell forever. 

 

 

[FreeTheScapegoats]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

JB won't cut him off for his sexual perversions, but to openly flout their religious conventions would probably end the support.  

May I add, going through the motions is also what lets him still have a community. If he were to forsake his beliefs, he would no longer be considered saved. He’d just be another sinner, of a similar ilk of, according to Q, all democrats. Anna would probably still not leave him, but she might keep her children away from him lest he corrupts them like Aunt Jill. Goodbye, providing husband and father. JB and Michelle might pray for him, but would leave him to flounder as they would do to Jill. Goodbye, dutiful son. Finally, as just another sinner, he’d lose the support from fellow fundies and fans. He has nowhere to go, and I’m not sure denouncing the cult would grant him any good will in the snarker community because, well, he’s a disgusting pedo.

[caitrona]

On 6/21/2021 at 8:35 AM, Mama Mia said:

Can a prison require treatment for sex offenders? Including with medication? Or make it enough of a carrot and stick for release dates and movement restrictions upon release that Josh would find it worth it? 

 

Certain states do require at least talk therapy for sex offenders -- refusing to attend and participate in such was one of the main reasons Bill Cosby was just denied parole.  

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

Someone on Reddit posted that David Keller (Anna’s brother) is courting the daughter of the Rebers. 

Both Mr Reber and Anna’s father have been involved in prison ministry, so that may be a reason the families know each other.  (Shared interests, attended the same fundie prison service meetings, etc.)  

I agree with those who say that Reber should have disclosed this to the court.   However, maybe they didn’t in order to protect their daughter’s privacy, not out of fear they would be rejected as guardians. 

You have to wonder how seriously people in the Duggar-Reber-Keller world are taking the revelation about Josh watching CSA porn.  They don’t seem as disgusted as we are.
 

[Mama Mia]

I wonder if the Rebel daughter and Anna’s brother were just at the talking / casually getting to know you stage before all this hit and have become closer since? They would certainly have a lot to talk about. Do we know if Anna has been taking the kids to see Josh? I would assume so, but I would think that would have come up on-line? I suppose the two young people could have met recently - if Anna’s dad is up there talking to Josh , and brought his son along? If so, that’s not a “how We met” back story you’re going to want to share! “Well kids, remember creepy Uncle Josh we told you not to be alone with? Well Grandpa R was having him stay there under house arrest when Aunt Anna brought Daddy along on a visit…..” 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mama Mia

[nellautumngirl]

I'm shocked. I think they traded Hannah like a horse at an auction. As someone else said, she is beautiful, accomplished and their only daughter, why would they give her to the Kellers? Not trying to sound snobbish, but they are not exactly fundie royalty in my eyes

[EmCatlyn]

18 minutes ago, nellautumngirl said:

I'm shocked. I think they traded Hannah like a horse at an auction. As someone else said, she is beautiful, accomplished and their only daughter, why would they give her to the Kellers? Not trying to sound snobbish, but they are not exactly fundie royalty in my eyes

Maybe Hannah and David like each other?

[nellautumngirl]

15 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Maybe Hannah and David like each other?

That's also possible of course. We can't know for sure. I just have a bad feeling about this

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Yeah I'm confused about this too. I agree with @Mama Mia that maybe this is a new relationship? Like Hannah told Anna I want to meet a nice guy and Anna said "Well my brother David is single." And they had this conversation while Josh was staying with the Rebers. 

I said this in the Unmarried fundies thread, but David Keller and Hannah Reber seem like an odd match to me. It's possible they just like each other. David seems like a nice person, and we don't really know much about him. Does anyone know if he more than his homeschooling SOTDRT certificate? Hannah's brother and sister-in-law went to college, but maybe Hannah just teaches piano? Her sister-in-law was working for the lieutenant governor and here's an article about it.  

[EmiSue]

Hannah studied music in college. She has an IG for her music and teaching that's public and she mentions graduating from college. My guess is she's better educated than David and I wonder what he thinks about that. 

[Smee]

All I can say is I hope they bond over how fucked up their pedo-apologist families are, and grow strength together to flee the cult and live happy lives pursuing their own interests and passions with few (if any) children.

Someone remind me when Anna is due? If they go with the 3 month continuation suggested by the prosecution, will M7 be born before trial?

17 hours ago, ven said:

Well lets add that every good brothel and escort service has girls who just turned 18 and look 12. Even in the male prostitute corner you have this ( very well earning niche) with consenting adults even. 

I doubt even the most baby-faced 18 year old could pass for a toddler though.

[SorenaJ]

1 hour ago, Smee said:

Someone remind me when Anna is due? If they go with the 3 month continuation suggested by the prosecution, will M7 be born before trial?

She is due some time in the autumn. So any time between 1 September - 21 December, depending on how autumn is defined. So if the trial was meant to be 6 July, that would take it to 6 October, so M7 could possibly have been born by then.