[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, bertnee said:

The abuser in that video is the person/report featured on Australia 60 Minutes episode called "Catching a Monster: Australia's worst paedophile". This person was caught in the Philippines along with 2 accomplices but is Australian. The video he recorded and sold on the dark web is one of the files that was found on Josh's computer according to the bond trial.

I watched what I could find of that 60 minutes episode (it appears to not be a full episode) last night. I think one thing I didn't quite GET until watching that, that needs to be kept in mind and I hope is made clear to the jury if he goes to trial, is that this "child porn" video he reportedly downloaded clips of is truly actually "child sexual abuse"... very heavy on the brutal abuse part. The word "porn" really doesn't convey the truth of what it is.

Spoiler for a tiny bit more detail though not explicit:

Spoiler

It's not only a child filmed naked and/or in an inappropriate situation.  It's multiple young girls being literally tortured physically and sexually by multiple adults. One 11-year-old child was murdered after being forced to dig her own grave, either during or just after the filming. One, the focus of the video, was 18 months old and left with permanent injuries. And these were poor children in the Philipines who were either lured by the guy's barely-adult girlfriends or handed over by their parents based on the promise of food and care by the wealthy white Australian guy. 

I'm enjoying all the pet drift to lighten the mood from time to time. I don't have a pet at the moment, though two of the neighborhood stray cats show up to greet me and beg for food every time I come home from work. I did go pet the poodles we have at work, though, just now. They are sleepy puppers today... they're always worn out on Fridays from a rough work week.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

34 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

She also placed a lot of restrictions on him and expressed several concerns during the hearing.

That's one of the problems IMO.  She expressed concerns and even said, "don't make me regret this."  Proof she knows he poses a risk and chose to let him out on bail anyway.  She had choices:

1. require evals of the kids, Anna, and the babysitters to help determine risk of harm and get a professional opinion as to the likelihood of Anna and the sitters being capable of holding him accountable and reporting as needed.
2. Order his time with kids be supervised by court appointed social worker.
3. Refused to accept the couple as a fit home after the woman said she was afraid of Josh because he's male and that it was her husband's decision and she was there to support it.  She should have rejected them as suitable due to the fear and now owning the decision alone and forced them to find someone else.  

She did none of those things.  Her concerns are valid, but if anything happens while he's out she needs to take responsibility that it wouldn't have happened had she been more cautious before allowing bond.

 

[Mama Mia]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's one of the problems IMO.  She expressed concerns and even said, "don't make me regret this."  Proof she knows he poses a risk and chose to let him out on bail anyway.  She had choices:

1. require evals of the kids, Anna, and the babysitters to help determine risk of harm and get a professional opinion as to the likelihood of Anna and the sitters being capable of holding him accountable and reporting as needed.
2. Order his time with kids be supervised by court appointed social worker.
3. Refused to accept the couple as a fit home after the woman said she was afraid of Josh because he's male and that it was her husband's decision and she was there to support it.  She should have rejected them as suitable due to the fear and now owning the decision alone and forced them to find someone else.  

She did none of those things.  Her concerns are valid, but if anything happens while he's out she needs to take responsibility that it wouldn't have happened had she been more cautious before allowing bond.

 

The main one that seems bad to me is not ordering some sort of 3rd party there when he visits with his children. If it isn’t possible to have a social worker or trained outside observer, at the very least a second adult in addition to Anna. Even his own lawyers should have asked for that. Even if he hasn’t hurt his own kids - it would be Way too easy for something to be misconstrued if it’s just mom and dad and the kids are later interviewed. A less emotionally invested set of eyes is absolutely needed. 

[libgirl2]

20 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I watched what I could find of that 60 minutes episode (it appears to not be a full episode) last night. I think one thing I didn't quite GET until watching that, that needs to be kept in mind and I hope is made clear to the jury if he goes to trial, is that this "child porn" video he reportedly downloaded clips of is truly actually "child sexual abuse"... very heavy on the brutal abuse part. The word "porn" really doesn't convey the truth of what it is.

Spoiler for a tiny bit more detail though not explicit:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's not only a child filmed naked and/or in an inappropriate situation.  It's multiple young girls being literally tortured physically and sexually by multiple adults. One 11-year-old child was murdered after being forced to dig her own grave, either during or just after the filming. One, the focus of the video, was 18 months old and left with permanent injuries. And these were poor children in the Philipines who were either lured by the guy's barely-adult girlfriends or handed over by their parents based on the promise of food and care by the wealthy white Australian guy. 

I'm enjoying all the pet drift to lighten the mood from time to time. I don't have a pet at the moment, though two of the neighborhood stray cats show up to greet me and beg for food every time I come home from work. I did go pet the poodles we have at work, though, just now. They are sleepy puppers today... they're always worn out on Fridays from a rough work week.

Spoiler

Sounds like pure torture and a snuff film. Disgusting beyond words. 

 

[Antimony]

I fear that I'm compelled to make another long post here. Folks here recommended the CBC Hunting Warhead podcast and I listened to all of it yesterday (and I'm starting to think that that was a bad choice, mental health wise, but I had some boring menial lab work and podcasts are my constant background tape for that.)

Anyway, a lot has been said about how smug Josh looks at court and leaving. For my take 1) he just kind of perpetually looks smug. Some of us have resting bitch face, this dude just has resting smug face. 2) I don't think how somebody looks in court necessarily means anything, or much. I suspect most people there are at least partially dissociated or on some sort of auto-pilot and there isn't a way they could look that would please everybody. (If he looks smug, we hate it. If he looked contrite, we'd read it as fake and contrived. He might win one person with certain expressions, but he'll never win everybody with any expression.)

But on this topic, the subjects of Hunting Warhead also were giggly smug MFers in court and they cover the level of cognitive dissonance and distortion;

Quote

But that's because sex offenders have an ability to compartmentalize their lives, and they will use those good things as moral compensation for the evil that they're committing in another sector, if you will. So they're saying, “look, I'm not a monster, I'm a good person that has a little bit of problems over here,” and it allows them to ultimately rationalize and justify what they're doing. (Ep 5, Hunting Warhead, CBC, from the transcript)

And I think this true of most people in Josh's corner of the internet but I also think his brand of fundamentalism specifically promotes cognitive dissonance and distortions. And I think it's nearly contagious. And they have to do it, even their most simple and basic stuff requires it; "Everybody is a sinner equally, but I am righteous and doing the right thing" requires that. They're incredibly practiced in it, it's just astounding.

[Howl]

Quote

But that's because sex offenders have an ability to compartmentalize their lives, and they will use those good things as moral compensation for the evil that they're committing in another sector

In my city, there was a case of a man drugging children (a LOT of children over the years) with tasty milkshakes or sweet drinks to molest them. 

IIRC, he was a court reporter, upstanding member of the community, happy family w/ wife and 3 kids -- he'd been doing this for so many years and nobody had a clue, especially not his wife.  Yes, compartmentalization to the absolute max. 

 

[Mela99]

Why aren’t they more concerned for his soul? This is a semi serious question. (I’m Catholic so I really don’t get their mindset)

They and the other fundies are so fixated on “do you know where you will spend eternity”.

Is this a case of “he’s innocent so it’s irrelevant “

Or “he’s saved so it’s no problem”

They’ve got evidence of him committing some of the most vile sins there are. But they’re more concerned about getting him off.

We’ve seen these families shame and demand repentance and apologies for adult children kissing a future spouse before marriage. Or touching a hand in public.

But they’re not even slightly concerned that their son gets excited by child abuse?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

49 minutes ago, violynn said:

Am I remembering wrong, or didn't there used to be a head/desk emoji and a 'wow' emoji?  I coulda sworn....

  

If you mean in the reactions to posts, then no, we've never had those.

[Grace]

47 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I disagree with lifetime appointments to anything, but I do agree that elections aren't the answer.  Appointments with terms where they need to be reappointed would make more sense to me, so they could serve for a lifetime if they were effective but it wouldn't be so hard to remove the ones that aren't.  

We have so many judges on our election ballots here it's really daunting.  I try hard to be a conscientious voter and do my research ahead of time but with the political candidates and propositions researching 30-40+ judges I've never heard of is impossible to do well.  You can't just look at track records, you have to know something about the cases to be able to judge their rulings.  Unless a judge has been in the news for either a heinous or awesome call I don't know one person who votes based on the judge as an individual.  

For me I can't go by sound bytes like "tough on crime"  or "will keep your community safe."   Because I think everyone should have a safe community and I do want a judge to be tough on crime in the sense that they'll hold violent offenders accountable and protect the public, especially in the cases involving children.  But I am opposed to those "tough on crime" who think it means locking up everyone with non-violent drug offenses, interpreting the law to get more convictions rather than the merits of each case, and those using those terms as dog whistles have no business in any government role much less the judiciary.  

Electing judges may, I don't know, work in a place like Fayetteville where it's probably feasible to research their records enough to get a decent idea.  But in Cook County which includes Chicago?  It would be a full time job just to evaluate a small sampling of cases from each judge.  

I ask my local lawyer friends about judge elections because they have the first hand insider knowledge. If I lived in a huge metropolis instead of Northwest Arkansas I can't fathom how a voter could make a truly informed decision

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Why aren’t they more concerned for his soul? This is a semi serious question. (I’m Catholic so I really don’t get their mindset)

They and the other fundies are so fixated on “do you know where you will spend eternity”.

Is this a case of “he’s innocent so it’s irrelevant “

Or “he’s saved so it’s no problem”

They’ve got evidence of him committing some of the most vile sins there are. But they’re more concerned about getting him off.

We’ve seen these families shame and demand repentance and apologies for adult children kissing a future spouse before marriage. Or touching a hand in public.

But they’re not even slightly concerned that their son gets excited by child abuse?

Because they believe literally anything is forgivable if the person is saved.  Anything.

Hitler on his deathbed could have one moment where he offers a blanket repentance "for all my sins" to God and "accepts Jesus Christ" into his heart and he's saved.  Straight shot to heaven.  As Josh is already "saved" all he has to do is to is not renounced God and he's good as far as eternity goes.  

You as a Catholic, me as a former Catholic and current heathen (I guess) are hell bound even though we've never done anything close to this.  It falls under their whole "saved by faith and not by works" thing.  You can't do anything to earn salvation and once saved you can't do anything to lose it except renounce your faith in God.  No matter how vile your actions they can't affect your salvation as long as you still believe.  Although God is unhappy when people sin, so there is that.

But as they think all sins are equal the God they believe in is equally unhappy when you steal a pack of post-its from work as when you sexually abuse a child so make of that what you will.  

Question for those who know about this flavor of fundy - is being saved enough or do they need to repent of their sins as well?  I know there is no formal confession, but do they need to tell God they're sorry in their head to go to heaven or is the saved thing just enough?  

Edited May 7, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, Mela99 said:

Anyone else almost feel hung over after catching up on all the threads? Phew. I need a pizza. Or a cheesecake. 

Chips and queso is what I want. A lot of it 

[Four is Enough]

14 hours ago, Galbin said:

It is now many years later and I have zero progeny. Fertility treatment did severe damage to my body and only resulted in miscarriages, while surgery for silent endometriosis also did nothing. As sad as it sounds I even bought into an angel card reader who told me I would be pregnant this spring.  

While Mr. Four and I were trying to adopt, I went to a card reader who told me I'd be pregnant in spring. Two's birth mother called us on Mother's day that year.. so, figuratively, I was expecting a child in that spring.. Be careful what you fiddle with..

9 hours ago, FunFunFundie said:

JRod would offer up one of her daughters as a second wife for Josh in a heartbeat. 

UGH. He is too old, too smarmy, and too horrible to contemplate for any of those girls. Or any girl, for that matter.

2 hours ago, BlackberryGirl said:

. What I WISH....well, aint gonna happen..life imprisonment in a very small cell, 23 hours a day, til the day when they sweep his unremembered bones from the floor.

Two was imprisoned on a gun charge. For nearly three years, his life was just what you described. He got out one hour per day. Sometimes it was the middle of the night, so he couldn't spend a half hour talking to us. He could get a shower during that time.

He still had other inmates he could talk to. He knew all the places where he could hear best and transmit his voice best, whether through walls, or through vents. My son is a very sociable person and he found a way to keep from being lonely. Never underestimate the cleverness of the imprisoned.

1 hour ago, Jess said:

. However, I can not condone in general solitary confinement of the nature you described as being part of our system for anyone who does not present a very large danger to other inmates and prison staff leaving them with absolutely no other choice for the safety of others. I encourage you to read up on its effects and just how terrible it is it really is akin to torture. I don’t want to live in a society that condones regular torture of its prison population. 

It's done more commonly than you might think. Two was in that arrangement for quite some time. His entire tier was. At times, he told us it was due to extremely low staffing issues. Other times, it simply seemed punitive. You realize, of course, that prisoners even confined like that can have televisions in their cell, books, letters, photos, and hobby items. Two spent time tattooing himself. 

While I would go berserk in a small cell, I know that there are ways people can maintain themselves.

 

Oh, and the preacher who said God forgives everything? The government doesn't.  You can still pray to God for forgiveness, Josh. You can probably get it. But for the "world", you're gonna have to pay.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Four is Enough

[mpheels]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Because they believe literally anything is forgivable if the person repents.  Anything.

Hitler on his deathbed could have one moment where he offers a blanket repentance "for all my sins" to God and "accepts Jesus Christ" into his heart and he's saved.  Straight shot to heaven.  As Josh is already "saved" all he has to do is to is not renounced God and he's good as far as eternity goes.  

You as a Catholic, me as a former Catholic and current heathen (I guess) are hell bound even though we've never done anything close to this.  It falls under their whole "saved by faith and not by works" thing.  You can't do anything to earn salvation and once saved you can't do anything to lose it except renounce your faith in God.  No matter how vile your actions they can't affect your salvation as long as you still believe.  Although God is unhappy when people sin, so there is that.

But as they think all sins are equal the God they believe in is equally unhappy when you steal a pack of post-its from work as when you sexually abuse a child so make of that what you will.  

They also believe God hands out children as rewards for good behavior. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Anna’s current pregnancy is held up as proof of Josh’s innocence since God wouldn’t reward them with a blessing if Josh had sinned.

[FunFunFundie]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Because they believe literally anything is forgivable if the person repents.  Anything.

Hitler on his deathbed could have one moment where he offers a blanket repentance "for all my sins" to God and "accepts Jesus Christ" into his heart and he's saved.  Straight shot to heaven.  As Josh is already "saved" all he has to do is to is not renounced God and he's good as far as eternity goes.  

You as a Catholic, me as a former Catholic and current heathen (I guess) are hell bound even though we've never done anything close to this.  It falls under their whole "saved by faith and not by works" thing.  You can't do anything to earn salvation and once saved you can't do anything to lose it except renounce your faith in God.  No matter how vile your actions they can't affect your salvation as long as you still believe.  Although God is unhappy when people sin, so there is that.

But as they think all sins are equal the God they believe in is equally unhappy when you steal a pack of post-its from work as when you sexually abuse a child so make of that what you will.  

I can't speak to the Duggars specifically but at least with the Andersons (and I think the Duggars maybe, since they are anti-LGBTQ), this isn't quite accurate. They think everything is forgiveable EXCEPT being a reprobate, because if you are a reprobate, that means you hate God and you were never truly saved. So for some who believe in faith but not works:

Once saved always saved
But you can't lie about being saved when you are being saved or you aren't saved
You are lying about being saved if you are a) gay, or b) a child molester
Some other things count as being a reprobate like, well, as far as I can tell, not worshipping Steven Anderson

This is why they go around "reprobating" other people and saying things like "were you ever EVEN SAVED???" as the ultimate insult.

For Josh, I assume they aren't worried about his soul because that would be an admission of guilt, and an admission of guilt is not just saying that he's a reprobate but also that because "ye shall know them by their fruit" reflects badly upon themselves. 

(I could be very wrong about the specifics about their doctrine. I'm better versed in the Andersons and the NIFB).

[Satan'sFortress]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You as a Catholic, me as a former Catholic and current heathen (I guess) are hell bound even though we've never done anything close to this.  It falls under their whole "saved by faith and not by works" thing.  You can't do anything to earn salvation and once saved you can't do anything to lose it except renounce your faith in God.  No matter how vile your actions they can't affect your salvation as long as you still believe.  Although God is unhappy when people sin, so there is that.

Wow--even though I was Catholic for 20 years, and have been an atheist for 30+ years, I realize how very, very catholic I still am. That is just crazy to me.

[Jess]

7 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

 

Two was imprisoned on a gun charge. For nearly three years, his life was just what you described. He got out one hour per day. Sometimes it was the middle of the night, so he couldn't spend a half hour talking to us. He could get a shower during that time.

He still had other inmates he could talk to. He knew all the places where he could hear best and transmit his voice best, whether through walls, or through vents. My son is a very sociable person and he found a way to keep from being lonely. Never underestimate the cleverness of the imprisoned.

It's done more commonly than you might think. Two was in that arrangement for quite some time. His entire tier was. At times, he told us it was due to extremely low staffing issues. Other times, it simply seemed punitive. You realize, of course, that prisoners even confined like that can have televisions in their cell, books, letters, photos, and hobby items. Two spent time tattooing himself. 

While I would go berserk in a small cell, I know that there are ways people can maintain themselves.

No, I understand it’s far too common. I just do not support it. It should not have happened to your son it shouldn’t happen to anyone in our prison system unless they pose a risk to others and there is no other choice. Before I was educated on the psychological damage solitary confinement causes in prisoners, I was accepting that it was just something that happened to prisoners for reasons including budget constraints and oh well. Knowing what I know now it’s not something I can condone outside of the few people who can not be safely housed otherwise.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Wow--even though I was Catholic for 20 years, and have been an atheist for 30+ years, I realize how very, very catholic I still am. That is just crazy to me.

From my experience it seems that Catholicism seeps into your identity and culture even after leaving the faith in a way more similar to Jews than fundies.  Like being culturally Jewish and culturally Catholic is a thing where I haven't seen that with fundies or even protestants in general who no longer believe.

I could be totally wrong, but the fundy lite people I know who went agnostic or atheist don't consider themselves culturally evangelical, they're just not religious.

I know they can still struggle with religious guilt as much, if not more, than recovering Catholics but they don't seem to retain the identity in their cultural group in the same way.  I have a theory about why that is, but who knows if I'm right about any of this.  I just know as a lapsed Catholic who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and went to predominately Jewish schools until college I found far more similarities between Catholic and Jewish culture and how religion is treated within the families than with fundies.  (Disclaimer my friends were mostly from reformed Jewish families and a few conservative.  I've never known any orthodox Jews and I am aware their approach to the religion is quite different.

[libgirl2]

20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

From my experience it seems that Catholicism seeps into your identity and culture even after leaving the faith in a way more similar to Jews than fundies.  Like being culturally Jewish and culturally Catholic is a thing where I haven't seen that with fundies or even protestants in general who no longer believe.

I could be totally wrong, but the fundy lite people I know who went agnostic or atheist don't consider themselves culturally evangelical, they're just not religious.

I know they can still struggle with religious guilt as much, if not more, than recovering Catholics but they don't seem to retain the identity in their cultural group in the same way.  I have a theory about why that is, but who knows if I'm right about any of this.  I just know as a lapsed Catholic who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and went to predominately Jewish schools until college I found far more similarities between Catholic and Jewish culture and how religion is treated within the families than with fundies.  (Disclaimer my friends were mostly from reformed Jewish families and a few conservative.  I've never known any orthodox Jews and I am aware their approach to the religion is quite different.

In the Catholic school I went to , we observed Passover every year. We were told the symbolism of the different foods etc... 

Edited May 7, 2021 by libgirl2

[CuttySark]

I think the issue is less that they don't keep their identity and more that said identity is completely normalized within western society. Our whole "mainstream" culture is based on Christian concepts, and one is steeped in them whether or not they're engaged in religious practice. It's just easier to see in those of us whose culture is different - it's like an accent. No-one notices they have one when they're surrounded by people with the same way of speaking. 

[medimus]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

From my experience it seems that Catholicism seeps into your identity and culture even after leaving the faith in a way more similar to Jews than fundies.  Like being culturally Jewish and culturally Catholic is a thing where I haven't seen that with fundies or even protestants in general who no longer believe.

I could be totally wrong, but the fundy lite people I know who went agnostic or atheist don't consider themselves culturally evangelical, they're just not religious.

I know they can still struggle with religious guilt as much, if not more, than recovering Catholics but they don't seem to retain the identity in their cultural group in the same way.  I have a theory about why that is, but who knows if I'm right about any of this.  I just know as a lapsed Catholic who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and went to predominately Jewish schools until college I found far more similarities between Catholic and Jewish culture and how religion is treated within the families than with fundies.  (Disclaimer my friends were mostly from reformed Jewish families and a few conservative.  I've never known any orthodox Jews and I am aware their approach to the religion is quite different.

I get what you mean about culturally catholic. I'm not technically catholic at all, christened church of england, brought up without religion at all and have never believed in god. But i grew up in a catholic country, went to catholic secondary school and university and i get a warm buzz when people i hardly know say they'll light a candle for me, i even went to light one myself before a recent music exam just as a destressor. The lunch menu at school and university was always fish on friday and that just feels right.

[formergothardite]

14 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

I can't speak to the Duggars specifically but at least with the Andersons (and I think the Duggars maybe, since they are anti-LGBTQ), this isn't quite accurate. They think everything is forgiveable EXCEPT being a reprobate, because if you are a reprobate, that means you hate God and you were never truly saved. So for some who believe in faith but not works:

Once saved always saved
But you can't lie about being saved when you are being saved or you aren't saved
You are lying about being saved if you are a) gay, or b) a child molester
Some other things count as being a reprobate like, well, as far as I can tell, not worshipping Steven Anderson

This is why they go around "reprobating" other people and saying things like "were you ever EVEN SAVED???" as the ultimate insult.

For Josh, I assume they aren't worried about his soul because that would be an admission of guilt, and an admission of guilt is not just saying that he's a reprobate but also that because "ye shall know them by their fruit" reflects badly upon themselves. 

(I could be very wrong about the specifics about their doctrine. I'm better versed in the Andersons and the NIFB).

I've been reading Facebook posts from some fundies I know about this, and "he was never saved" Is pretty much how they are addressing it. Most are pretty horrified Anna is standing by him. They could come up with excuses for the incidents when he was a teenager and even the Ashley Madison scandal, but this is just too awful. One post has 42 comments and the closest to defending him were comments saying that he hasn't been convicted yet.

[luv2laugh]

Pedophiles are disturbed individuals but what is alarming is that Josh wasn’t “only” viewing illegal material of minors. What Josh viewed, I’ve read, is something many pedophiles won’t even watch. Josh’s “genre” of CSA is sadistic (not that others aren’t). The 60 Minutes documentary actually showed parts of it that had words moving across humiliating and dehumanizing these children for the pleasure of the audience. The Duggars need to know that. I haven’t heard of anything worse and the Duggars shouldn’t be sheltered from the facts: (trigger warning)

Spoiler

According to the 60 Minutes documentary on YouTube: 

(Josh) was viewing the rape & torture of children and a baby.
The investigators cried. One cried on camera recalling it. 

Why? What compels someone (a father of 7) to desire watching this?

Edited May 7, 2021 by luv2laugh

[bertnee]

14 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Question for those who know about this flavor of fundy - is being saved enough or do they need to repent of their sins as well?  I know there is no formal confession, but do they need to tell God they're sorry in their head to go to heaven or is the saved thing just enough?  

So I think (though I haven't exactly attended JB's living room church), to accept God you have to confess you're a sinner and that you need God to save you. Then you are saved and on the Heaven list. If you commit a sin, then you are no longer on good terms with God. You need to confess your sins to God (and possibly the church community/elders, I feel like I recall something about Josh confessing teenage sin to the church community but I may be remembering wrong) and ask for forgiveness to get back on the Heaven track. Then try not to do the bad thing again.

The thing is...there is no real distinction between what will get you kicked out of Heaven. Eating an extra serving of tater tot casserole then lying when your mom asks who ate the last piece is on the same level as --- well, all this shit that Josh has been up to for all these years. So you are either constantly asking for forgiveness and completely terrified of going to hell for any little thing...or maybe you just decide that none of it matters because you can ask for forgiveness from God later after you've committed serious horrifying crimes.

God thinks it's on the same level according to many flavors of fundie/evangelical theology Either you're in or you're out. God knows your heart. 

[FunFunFundie]

37 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Question for those who know about this flavor of fundy - is being saved enough or do they need to repent of their sins as well?  I know there is no formal confession, but do they need to tell God they're sorry in their head to go to heaven or is the saved thing just enough?  

At least for the Andersons and the NIFB, you don't have to repent, because we are all sinners and all are the same. Once saved always saved. You just have to accept the lord into your heart and boom, you're saved. Forever and ever.

(And if you are lying about being saved, it's because you are a reprobate and CAN'T be saved, so you couldn't repent that away).

[CuttySark]

14 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

In the Catholic school I went to , we celebrated Passover every year. 

Thread drift, but please don't do this. Unless the services or seders you had were initiated and led by a real rabbi, this practice is antisemitic and extremely harmful. 

https://www.heyalma.com/why-are-christian-passover-seders-a-thing/

From the article:

"Christians celebrating their own Passover do unwitting harm to the Jewish people because they ignore centuries of persecution of Jews — and they do harm to themselves by ignoring their real-life Jewish neighbors, treating them as relics rather than people.”...

“3,500 years of persecution, much of it by Christians, is not negated by the relative freedom from discrimination that Jews in America have experienced in recent decades,” Cynamon-Murphy writes. “The horrific fear that so many Jewish people have felt cannot be understated. From Easter traditions that involved hunting down Jews to pogroms to ghettos to the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust, history is rife with this violent legacy.”

Edited May 7, 2021 by CuttySark