[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date

[Mela99]

Have any of the fundie institutions come out and condemned any of this? IBLP, the FRC, any of them? Any even slightly “famous” friends?

One of my friends just got blocked on Twitter by Ted Cruz for repeatedly tweeting the pictures of him with Smug.

[neuroticcat]

Adding to above on fundamentalism and control: It’s still alluring to me sometimes, honestly. Even though I know so much about fundiedom and have worked through my own trauma in therapy, I still find myself sometimes drawn back to the “certainty” of fundamentalism. It feels “right” because of childhood abuse, and I feel I feel especially drawn to it when external circumstances feel overwhelming. Like, if I just read the book on godly living, I can do that and it relieves my anxiety. 
 

I do feel genuinely thankful for the Duggars because every so often their shitstorm reminds me that there is nothing life-giving in fundamentalism...

3 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Have any of the fundie institutions come out and condemned any of this? IBLP, the FRC, any of them? Any even slightly “famous” friends?

One of my friends just got blocked on Twitter by Ted Cruz for repeatedly tweeting the pictures of him with Smug.

I was wondering if the Bates would open their mouths.Not yet. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by neuroticcat
Context

[hoipolloi]

1 minute ago, Mela99 said:

Have any of the fundie institutions come out and condemned any of this? IBLP, the FRC, any of them? Any even slightly “famous” friends?

Not that I've seen.  The usual response is a combination of radio silence and "La-la-la, we can't hear you."

? ??

 

[artdecades]

I hate everything because I just read more details of his crimes and I want him to die in prison. 

[WiseGirl]

31 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

One of my friends just got blocked on Twitter by Ted Cruz for repeatedly tweeting the pictures of him with Smug.

I applaud your friend for doing this. I have no love for Cruz and even less for Smuggar. 

[Tatar-tot]

6 hours ago, bertnee said:

So I think (though I haven't exactly attended JB's living room church), to accept God you have to confess you're a sinner and that you need God to save you. Then you are saved and on the Heaven list. If you commit a sin, then you are no longer on good terms with God. You need to confess your sins to God (and possibly the church community/elders, I feel like I recall something about Josh confessing teenage sin to the church community but I may be remembering wrong) and ask for forgiveness to get back on the Heaven track. Then try not to do the bad thing again.

The thing is...there is no real distinction between what will get you kicked out of Heaven. Eating an extra serving of tater tot casserole then lying when your mom asks who ate the last piece is on the same level as --- well, all this shit that Josh has been up to for all these years. So you are either constantly asking for forgiveness and completely terrified of going to hell for any little thing...or maybe you just decide that none of it matters because you can ask for forgiveness from God later after you've committed serious horrifying crimes.

God thinks it's on the same level according to many flavors of fundie/evangelical theology Either you're in or you're out. God knows your heart. 

You may have been forgiven but you still must stand up & take your punishment, per the Bible. 

[Drala]

Lawyer Carrie on TikTok put out a series of vids on Josh Duggar that I found very informative. She's from Arkansas.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqcjfo9/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqcsSCU/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqccgVy/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqcvCdU/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeqcq7jP/

[purple_summer]

41 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Have any of the fundie institutions come out and condemned any of this? IBLP, the FRC, any of them? Any even slightly “famous” friends?

One of my friends just got blocked on Twitter by Ted Cruz for repeatedly tweeting the pictures of him with Smug.

I don’t think they will. Josh doesn’t represent any of them in an official capacity anymore. 
 

I was taught that sin is sin, but sexual sin is the “worst” because it’s a sin against your very being. Someone had already elaborated on substitutionary atonement/sanctification so I won’t really add to that. I will share this (awful, cringe, yet nightmare inducing?) video that dramatizes what happens when you die/face judgement. 

tw: Carmen 

Spoiler

 

 

[FunFunFundie]

15 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

You may have been forgiven but you still must stand up & take your punishment, per the Bible. 

Oh! I have something to add here that made this make sense to me in my mind from the fundy point of view: 

If your sin is a lesser one (so, not reprobate level), you'll piss God off and he'll punish you on earth. You'll still go to heaven because once saved always saved (unless you're a lying reprobate). But if you're a regular old murderer or fibber, you still get to go to heaven, but you will face punishment on earth.

(This is one of the questions that fascinates me the most, because as far as I can tell, it boils down to "we will comfort you by promising you that you have to do *almost* nothing and you will be *guaranteed* to go to heaven, but also, we can take it back at any time by naming you a reprobate and then, you can do *nothing* to get to heaven).

[HereComesTreble]

2 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

It is a very different thing to attend deceiver hosted by a Jewish family. Personally I have never hosted one that didn't include at least one person who had never been to one before. 

Was “deceiver” an autocorrect error?  I bet it was supposed to be “Seder.” If not, what is that, please?  I ask because my mom’s family is Jewish—I’ve never heard of a deceiver.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by HereComesTreble

[RainbowSky]

1 hour ago, Mela99 said:

One of my friends just got blocked on Twitter by Ted Cruz for repeatedly tweeting the pictures of him with Smug.

That's friggin hilarious.

But..why is he allowed to block people? ?

[mpheels]

When I was in high school, my (Methodist) youth pastor organized a Maundy Thursday dinner. We washed each other’s feet, shared a meal, and talked about the connection between Passover and Easter, but never suggested our meal or the Last Supper was a Seder. The closest I’ve ever been to an actual Seder is having work meetings with Jewish colleagues during Passover, amd someone inevitably opens the meeting by ask “why is it that this meeting is different from all other meetings?”

[ADoyle90815]

I think that's hilarious that Ted Cruz is blocking people on Twitter for posting that pic of him with Smuggar, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's done that on Facebook as well.

[Howl]

Derrick Dillard tweeted that he graduated from University of Arkansas Law School today.   

Has Jill ever expressed a desire to continue her education? 

 

[Mama Mia]

30 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

I don’t think they will. Josh doesn’t represent any of them in an official capacity anymore. 
 

I was taught that sin is sin, but sexual sin is the “worst” because it’s a sin against your very being. Someone had already elaborated on substitutionary atonement/sanctification so I won’t really add to that. I will share this (awful, cringe, yet nightmare inducing?) video that dramatizes what happens when you die/face judgement. 

tw: Carmen 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Well that video was....something. I may have to go down the rabbit hole of this guy’s channel. It was like watching Grease Beauty School Drop-Out - but..not . I especially love that he was the narrator, God, Satan AND Jesus. That’s some multi-tasking lol. 
 

I wouldn’t think most of Josh’s former associates would say anything, if they can avoid it. It would just highlight their past relationship with him, and who would want that? Maybe some of them will if directly asked, or when he’s convicted. But I’d expect it to be similar to the family statements - “I condemn those actions, prayers to the family...byyyyyee” 
 

 

[purple_summer]

24 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

Oh! I have something to add here that made this make sense to me in my mind from the fundy point of view: 

If your sin is a lesser one (so, not reprobate level), you'll piss God off and he'll punish you on earth. You'll still go to heaven because once saved always saved (unless you're a lying reprobate). But if you're a regular old murderer or fibber, you still get to go to heaven, but you will face punishment on earth.

(This is one of the questions that fascinates me the most, because as far as I can tell, it boils down to "we will comfort you by promising you that you have to do *almost* nothing and you will be *guaranteed* to go to heaven, but also, we can take it back at any time by naming you a reprobate and then, you can do *nothing* to get to heaven).

I think you’re confusing “punishment” and natural consequences. The Bible doesn’t imply that repentance gets you off the hook for any natural consequences or legal punishment you could be subjected to. There is no sin in heaven, so you can’t be non remorseful and get in. In that sense “all sin is the same” because murder is wrong and lying is wrong and there can be no wrongs in heaven. Once you repent/are born again you’ve (in theory) acknowledged your wrongdoing so you’re given mercy. 
If your child breaks something and apologizes/confesses you would likely give them a lighter consequence than if they lie about it. Same principle. 
 

Does this make sense? It’s hard to explain sometimes ?

[EmCatlyn]

13 hours ago, Jess said:

Full time overseas Missionaries need visas Josh will not be getting a visa.

Ah, but JB could send him with a tourist visa and tell folks back home that he was there as a missionary. ? In a lot of places, also, JB could bribe someone to let Josh change his name and disappear.

(To repeat, I am not seriously suggesting this as a solution.  I just see JB more likely to be motivated to do something to get Josh safely out of the way than to find Josh a new wife in the highly unlikely event that Anna divorces him.)

[FunFunFundie]

2 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

I think you’re confusing “punishment” and natural consequences. The Bible doesn’t imply that repentance gets you off the hook for any natural consequences or legal punishment you could be subjected to. There is no sin in heaven, so you can’t be non remorseful and get in. In that sense “all sin is the same” because murder is wrong and lying is wrong and there can be no wrongs in heaven. Once you repent/are born again you’ve (in theory) acknowledged your wrongdoing so you’re given mercy. 
If your child breaks something and apologizes/confesses you would likely give them a lighter consequence than if they lie about it. Same principle. 
 

Does this make sense? It’s hard to explain sometimes ?

It makes sense! I'm just parroting what the Andersons et al. have said, which is literally that there is punishment from God on the earth if you commit "minor" sins, which is everything from lying to your mother to murder. (But not homosexual attraction, that's reprobate material).

[purple_summer]

3 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Well that video was....something. I may have to go down the rabbit hole of this guy’s channel. It was like watching Grease Beauty School Drop-Out - but..not . I especially love that he was the narrator, God, Satan AND Jesus. That’s some multi-tasking lol. 

Carmen is special. He died recently and the reaction from exvangelicals (of the millennial variety) was a mix of nostalgia and second hand embarrassment. This isn’t even a “greatest hit”? 

“Satan, bite the dust” is always good for a laugh. 

[RainbowSky]

6 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Well that video was....something. I may have to go down the rabbit hole of this guy’s channel. It was like watching Grease Beauty School Drop-Out - but..not . I especially love that he was the narrator, God, Satan AND Jesus. That’s some multi-tasking lol. 
 

 

Good luck. Carman is (was?) quite... something. Lmao

[Satan'sFortress]

1 hour ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

As I yardstick to measure the severity of the narcissistic delusion with the Duggar adult males I would like to know how many details of this investigation/potential for arrest Jim Bob and Josh shared with Jed prior to the election.

Because either they let him put himself out there WITHOUT letting him know this bomb of horrors could blow up during a campaign or once he was in office (which is a really shitty thing to do to your son/brother). 
 

Or Jed KNEW this was coming and still thought this was the right time to run for office (which points to how divorced from reality the men from this family are) and they thought it would help if Jed was elected. 

I actually think that is a very interesting question! Hmmmmmm.  Unless they knew the arrest was going to happen after the election. To me, it makes me believe that Jed did not know, and it makes me wonder how much JB even knew. But what the Hell do I know?!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

49 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

If your sin is a lesser one (so, not reprobate level), you'll piss God off and he'll punish you on earth. You'll still go to heaven because once saved always saved (unless you're a lying reprobate). But if you're a regular old murderer or fibber, you still get to go to heaven, but you will face punishment on earth.

So basically they have venial and mortal sins, they just have different names for them. 

A Catholic tenet by any other name...oh fundies!  You need so many more words for the exact same concept.

21 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

If your child breaks something and apologizes/confesses you would likely give them a lighter consequence than if they lie about it. Same principle. 
 

I get that, but there is nothing one of my kids could do that would cause me to banish them for all eternity.  Isn't that the same as withholding salvation for minor sins?

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, Mela99 said:

....  They’ve got evidence of him committing some of the most vile sins there are. But they’re more concerned about getting him off.

We’ve seen these families shame and demand repentance and apologies for adult children kissing a future spouse before marriage. Or touching a hand in public.

But they’re not even slightly concerned that their son gets excited by child abuse?

I don’t think they accept the evidence.  They know he is in trouble, but they are ready to believe that either he is being blamed for something he didn’t do (someone else downloaded all the nasty stuff, or it is a frame up by the evil left) or if he did it, then it probably was in a moment of weakness, when he was overcome by Satan’s temptation. Since he has now repented, everything is now okay, his soul is fine.

[Jess]

16 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Ah, but JB could send him with a tourist visa and tell folks back home that he was there as a missionary. ? In a lot of places, also, JB could bribe someone to let Josh change his name and disappear.

(To repeat, I am not seriously suggesting this as a solution.  I just see JB more likely to be motivated to do something to get Josh safely out of the way than to find Josh a new wife in the highly unlikely event that Anna divorces him.)

They don’t get tourists visas often either. I know most countries do not require US citizens to have tourist visa but, they still ask if your a felon and sex offenders have special stamps in their passports that say they are sex offenders. I suppose he could find a country that would let Josh in as a tourist for a few months and tell people he is a missionary, but someone would probably report him for working in the country illegally. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, EmCatlyn said:

(someone else downloaded all the nasty stuff, or it is a frame up by the evil left)

This one was absurd to me.  The conspiracy theory is that this was planted because of Sarah Huckabee wanting to run for governor and he's Huckabee adjacent.

If that were the plan don't you think they'd have set up her dad?  Or husband?  

You want to sabotage my career by all means set up some casual acquaintance I barely know.  That'll show me!

4 minutes ago, Jess said:

but someone would probably report him for working in the country illegally. 

Working?  That's hilarious  

20 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I actually think that is a very interesting question! Hmmmmmm.  Unless they knew the arrest was going to happen after the election. To me, it makes me believe that Jed did not know, and it makes me wonder how much JB even knew. But what the Hell do I know?!

If JB didn't know until Josh was going to turn himself in....OMG to be a fly on the wall when he found out.

Seriously, how much would I pay to see a video of JB and M finding out for the first time?  So much.

To the question upthread about if they knew when Jed was running for office, I didn't even think of that and now it's one of my burning questions.  Maybe that's why JB ran the kid way too young and inexperienced, maybe he knew there was a short window for a Duggar in politics.  Or not....I can't understand these people.