Jump to content
IGNORED

[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date


choralcrusader8613

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

I watched what I could find of that 60 minutes episode (it appears to not be a full episode) last night. I think one thing I didn't quite GET until watching that, that needs to be kept in mind and I hope is made clear to the jury if he goes to trial, is that this "child porn" video he reportedly downloaded clips of is truly actually "child sexual abuse"... very heavy on the brutal abuse part. The word "porn" really doesn't convey the truth of what it is.

Spoiler for a tiny bit more detail though not explicit:

  Hide contents

It's not only a child filmed naked and/or in an inappropriate situation.  It's multiple young girls being literally tortured physically and sexually by multiple adults. One 11-year-old child was murdered after being forced to dig her own grave, either during or just after the filming. One, the focus of the video, was 18 months old and left with permanent injuries. And these were poor children in the Philipines who were either lured by the guy's barely-adult girlfriends or handed over by their parents based on the promise of food and care by the wealthy white Australian guy. 

I'm enjoying all the pet drift to lighten the mood from time to time. I don't have a pet at the moment, though two of the neighborhood stray cats show up to greet me and beg for food every time I come home from work. I did go pet the poodles we have at work, though, just now. They are sleepy puppers today... they're always worn out on Fridays from a rough work week.

I watched the 60 Minutes AUS doc. It was awful, but damn, I liked that reporter. She was so mean to Peter Scully.  It was beautiful. He kept trying to show his contempt toward her but she smacked him back with venom each time!

  • Upvote 14
  • I Agree 3
  • Thank You 2
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, CuttySark said:

Thread drift, but please don't do this. Unless the services or seders you had were initiated and led by a real rabbi, this practice is antisemitic and extremely harmful. 

https://www.heyalma.com/why-are-christian-passover-seders-a-thing/

From the article:

"Christians celebrating their own Passover do unwitting harm to the Jewish people because they ignore centuries of persecution of Jews — and they do harm to themselves by ignoring their real-life Jewish neighbors, treating them as relics rather than people.”...

“3,500 years of persecution, much of it by Christians, is not negated by the relative freedom from discrimination that Jews in America have experienced in recent decades,” Cynamon-Murphy writes. “The horrific fear that so many Jewish people have felt cannot be understated. From Easter traditions that involved hunting down Jews to pogroms to ghettos to the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust, history is rife with this violent legacy.”

I was not aware of that. We are talking about 40 years ago however. I'm sure things have changed. I do remember we didn't all gather around a table. We had an assembly of the whole school when they went over the meal and the meanings and a few students were chosen to go up and partake of the food. 

Edited by libgirl2
  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, libgirl2 said:

I was not aware of that. We are talking about 40 years ago however. I'm sure things have changed. 

If you read the article I linked, it's from 2019. Things have most definitely gotten much worse. 

  • Upvote 4
  • Sad 2
  • I Agree 1
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

:bangheaddesk: :5624797b0697e_headbash: :wow:

If you mean in the reactions to posts, then no, we've never had those.

Thanks LOL   Thank you for the reminder that those are called reactions, not emojis!  

 

Spoiler has an especially violent/graphic head/desk,

Spoiler

bloodymess.gif.f37daa6ca93c3f3aa9594c364e21a99b.gif

 

 

Edited by violynn
1st edit for spoiler, 2nd edit to explain 1st edit.
  • Upvote 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CuttySark said:

If you read the article I linked, it's from 2019. Things have most definitely gotten much worse. 

Interesting. I honestly don't remember if there was a Rabbi in attendance, like I said it was about 45 years ago. I just remember finding it very interesting to learn about the symbolism and the tradition. 

I would love to attend a real Seder but I would not throw one or go to one that is not authentic. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

 

  Hide contents

One, the focus of the video, was 18 months old and left with permanent injuries.  

 

I want to know how the survivor(s) is/are now but I don't want to google anything anymore.

  • Upvote 4
  • I Agree 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I've been reading Facebook posts from some fundies I know about this, and "he was never saved" Is pretty much how they are addressing it. Most are pretty horrified Anna is standing by him. They could come up with excuses for the incidents when he was a teenager and even the Ashley Madison scandal, but this is just too awful. One post has 42 comments and the closest to defending him were comments saying that he hasn't been convicted yet.

This is very heartening to me, to hear that even in some fundy circles this isn't being handwaved away.  

I'm very curious to how an adult child having never been truly saved reflects on the parents?  Will they tend to hold JB and M in judgement for raising a child who can resist salvation?  Within ILBP do you think Anna will be shunned for staying, outside of her immediate family and inlaws?  

  • Upvote 14
  • I Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, FunFunFundie said:

JRod would offer up one of her daughters as a second wife for Josh in a heartbeat. Actually, she’d reread her Bible, pray on it, explain that technically, a woman can (and should!) have multiple husbands, and invite Josh into her own marriage.

She would SEVERELY reread and pray on it. 

  • Haha 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Interesting. I honestly don't remember if there was a Rabbi in attendance, like I said it was about 45 years ago. I just remember finding it very interesting to learn about the symbolism and the tradition. 

I would love to attend a real Seder but I would not throw one or go to one that is not authentic. 

That's the thing, really - if you (generic plural 'you' - English needs a 'vous' form!) were taught about it by someone non-Jewish, then you didn't learn the symbolism except possibly at its most basic - at worst, it'll have had Jesus stirred into everything.

I highly recommend attending a real seder if you want to learn something about Jewish practice. Some synagogues hold interfaith seders for precisely this reason, and hopefully by next year will be able to host events again. It's always a good time! 

Edited to add: For discussions on things like this and a window into modern Judaism, I always recommend following Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg on Twitter. She's written quite a bit about interfaith respect and education. 

Edited by CuttySark
Adding a link
  • Upvote 15
  • Thank You 4
  • Love 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

I want to know how the survivor(s) is/are now but I don't want to google anything anymore.

I know. I was wondering the same.  

  • Upvote 6
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's one of the problems IMO.  She expressed concerns and even said, "don't make me regret this."  Proof she knows he poses a risk and chose to let him out on bail anyway.  She had choices:

  1. require evals of the kids, Anna, and the babysitters to help determine risk of harm and get a professional opinion as to the likelihood of Anna and the sitters being capable of holding him accountable and reporting as needed.
  2. Order his time with kids be supervised by court appointed social worker.
  3. Refused to accept the couple as a fit home after the woman said she was afraid of Josh because he's male and that it was her husband's decision and she was there to support it.  She should have rejected them as suitable due to the fear and now owning the decision alone and forced them to find someone else.  

She did none of those things.  Her concerns are valid, but if anything happens while he's out she needs to take responsibility that it wouldn't have happened had she been more cautious before allowing bond.

 

If the defense has indicated intent to challenge evidence on due process procedures, then the judge would be inclined to take every step to ensure that there are no such issues going forward with regard to every bit of due process procedures being followed.  She wouldn't want the defense to use the denial of bail to bolster claims of unfair/hostile prosecution.

I'm not advocating the podcast referenced upthread nor its speculation, but entrapment is a very common defense strategy; particularly with shared devices/computers.   

1 and 2 may not have been possible for the federal judge to issue - such cases tend to fall under the jurisdiction of a local rather than federal court.

 

  • Upvote 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This is very heartening to me, to hear that even in some fundy circles this isn't being handwaved away.  

I'm very curious to how an adult child having never been truly saved reflects on the parents?  Will they tend to hold JB and M in judgement for raising a child who can resist salvation?  Within ILBP do you think Anna will be shunned for staying, outside of her immediate family and inlaws?  

I'm also curious about this. When the Anderson kids were in that sexting scandal and saying awful, awful stuff, the parents waved it away as "boys will be boys," even though the same actions from basically anybody else would have had them screaming that the boys should be stoned to death.

But I don't know whether that is because of their doctrine or because of their (armchair diagnosed) narcissism. Zsu wrote a whole blog post a few years ago about knowing the parents by their fruit (i.e., bad kids = rotten parents), but I don't know if that's how average fundies feel. Every fundy family has to have somebody who has left the fold, right? And somebody who has done terrible things. I don't know what that does to the parents.

(I would guess that JB and Michelle would do what Zsu and PP did, not because of their faith but because they can't stand the thought of their child being a reprobate because they did everything so right).

In the case of PP and Zsu, PP has preached, loudly, that you can't be a pastor if you can't lead your home, but I don't think that's how all or even most fundies believe.

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Interesting. I honestly don't remember if there was a Rabbi in attendance, like I said it was about 45 years ago. I just remember finding it very interesting to learn about the symbolism and the tradition. 

I would love to attend a real Seder but I would not throw one or go to one that is not authentic. 

Actually we did this in my Catholic school in the 90s as well. Only in one year I think, as it corresponded to what we were learning in RE. We were very aware that it wasn't a true Seder but we all would have been incredibly naive about any offence we would have caused. Like you I just found it incredibly interesting. There was very little ethnic or religious diversity in Northern Ireland at the time. 

Thank you for the information @CuttySark I had considered it from that point of view.

I just saw your comment uptrend. Our lesson was definitely related to Jesus and how he would have celebrated Passover in his lifetime.

 

Edited by EmainMacha
Add info about lesson being focused on Jesus.
  • Upvote 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I know. I was wondering the same.  

Someone either further back in this thread or in the last one said that survivors were doing as well as could be expected but the baby had lasting physical damage.

  • Disgust 2
  • Sad 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I watched the 60 Minutes AUS doc. It was awful, but damn, I liked that reporter. She was so mean to Peter Scully.  It was beautiful. He kept trying to show his contempt toward her but she smacked him back with venom each time!

YES! She was amazing. She kept control and he was obviously irritated by his inability to bother her while she stayed cold and asked questions even though she knew he'd not answer them. She even made a point of telling the people in the room when he was allowed to get up, she never let him take control of the interview in any way at all. 

I wanna see her interview Trump. And Josh. Any everybody else who needs a good no-nonsense "I'm not taking your shit" interview.

  • Upvote 21
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, bertnee said:

The thing is...there is no real distinction between what will get you kicked out of Heaven. Eating an extra serving of tater tot casserole then lying when your mom asks who ate the last piece is on the same level as --- well, all this shit that Josh has been up to for all these years. So you are either constantly asking for forgiveness and completely terrified of going to hell for any little thing...or maybe you just decide that none of it matters because you can ask for forgiveness from God later after you've committed serious horrifying crimes.

 

Ahhh, I had an eloquent reply ready and then it disappeared.  Anyway, it amounted to this: I'm not trying to be mean, but this is a false dilemma, and a severely limited/inadequate conclusion to the very broad topic of salvation history & theology, which far brighter people (not the Duggars, obvs) than you or I have studied and explored for hundreds of years.

I suspect you're primarily venting about the apparent injustice of a mild error being equivalent to inhumane activities, which is your right--this isn't a theology discussion board after all.  

  • Upvote 1
  • Confused 2
  • Eyeroll 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

Zsu wrote a whole blog post a few years ago about knowing the parents by their fruit (i.e., bad kids = rotten parents)

So....I have three kids who are imperfect as all humans, but decent compassionate people who have never brought shame to our family with a texting scandal like Zsu's boys....so by her definition I'm a better parent then she is?  

I mean I don't think you can judge parents by the actions of their kids in every instance, they are people and sometimes will do bad things in spite of good, loving parenting...but in her pass/fail approach to parenting....I win.

Something she should think about.  All the heathen's out there with kids who haven't gotten into trouble....how did we do it without homeschooling, Jesus, and locks on the kitchen cabinets?

  • Upvote 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of solitary confinement--I highly recommend Eastern State Penitentiary for those in the Philadelphia region.

Quote

Known for its grand architecture and strict discipline, this was the world's first true "penitentiary," a prison designed to inspire penitence, or true regret, in the hearts of prisoners.

It really taught me a lot about the harmful effects of solitary---and has an excellent exhibit about the horrific incarceration rate in the US. 

What I would wish for Josh is that he does one day have true enlightenment about what he has done and the people he has harmed. A real, lasting revelation. I think that would be worse than solitary, or even death, for that matter. (Then again, I'm one of those raised Catholic.)

  • Upvote 18
  • I Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So....I have three kids who are imperfect as all humans, but decent compassionate people who have never brought shame to our family with a texting scandal like Zsu's boys....so by her definition I'm a better parent then she is?  

I mean I don't think you can judge parents by the actions of their kids in every instance, they are people and sometimes will do bad things in spite of good, loving parenting...but in her pass/fail approach to parenting....I win.

Something she should think about.  All the heathen's out there with kids who haven't gotten into trouble....how did we do it without homeschooling, Jesus, and locks on the kitchen cabinets?

The best thing about Zsu is that she writes terrible, awful, black-and-white blog posts about how much better she is than everybody else and then, later, that's still on the Internet when her kids turn out to be kind of awful. The blog post was back when her kids were pre-teens and polite. Ask her about that now and she would say, I'm sure, "people's opinions change" or "my children have done nothing wrong, unlike yours, who are probably reprobates."

  • Upvote 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

 a severely limited/inadequate conclusion

Everything about the Duggars is severely limited and inadequate, except the number of children they managed to produce. 

In-depth theology is interesting (though above my head) but correct or not, there are plenty of people who understand it as "Jesus died for my sins, even the ones I haven't committed yet, so I'm saved and all is good". I know one person who converted to Catholocism and I'm 99% sure based on talking to her that the whole reason was that she figured could go to confession and do her penance and POOF! Sin gone. And then the same the next week, and the next...

  • Upvote 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

What I would wish for Josh is that he does one day have true enlightenment about what he has done and the people he has harmed.

In a perfect world his torment would be to have to feel the suffering of his victims for the rest of his life.  Ditto his parents.  Let them live with the pain and aftereffects.  

Because I am not very cultured I'm gonna toss out a Charmed reference where the demon of the week did that to Cole and he was afraid of being driven mad by having to embody the pain of all of his victims.  It was a long time ago so my memory is faulty, but that would be true justice IMO.  For them to live with the actual pain they caused others for the rest of their lives.  

If there is a God maybe he should get to work on that.

16 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

hhh, I had an eloquent reply ready and then it disappeared.  Anyway, it amounted to this: I'm not trying to be mean, but this is a false dilemma, and a severely limited/inadequate conclusion to the very broad topic of salvation history & theology, which far brighter people (not the Duggars, obvs) than you or I have studied and explored for hundreds of years.

She was answering based on her understanding of the Duggar's beliefs, which was the question I asked which was about Duggars and their ilk.  What you're talking about may well be very interesting, but wasn't the point she was addressing so not sure why you're calling her out for a false dilemma.

If it was limited/inadequate that sounds about right considering I was asking about Duggars and the like who are by definition limited and inadequate.

  • Upvote 19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think Anna is hesitant to have the M kids checked out because she either:

A. Deep down thinks something has happened to them

B. Is paranoid because it’s CPS or whoever

56 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I watched the 60 Minutes AUS doc. It was awful, but damn, I liked that reporter. She was so mean to Peter Scully.  It was beautiful. He kept trying to show his contempt toward her but she smacked him back with venom each time!

What an absolute disgusting & effed up human being! I mean we know there’s people out there that act like this & do horrible, horrible things. But it just blows my mind that anyone could do stuff like that to another human especially a CHILD! 

Edited by CosmicStardust
  • Upvote 7
  • I Agree 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think JB remarrying Smugs is out of the question.  

1.  Marrying him off makes him responsible for himself again, instead of JBs responsibility.

2. His ability to still produce blessings in their circle is a sign that God is pleased with them and is reigning down his love.  What better way to show that then by getting him a new oven?

  • Upvote 1
  • Disgust 2
  • Confused 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Destiny locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.