[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, JenniferJuniper said:

And all the brothers seem to be such passive wimps.

If I had to pick a sibling must likely to pummel him it would be Jessa. Followed by Josie. 

Yep.  People are assigning a lot of assertiveness and protectiveness to these guys that we've never seen any evidence for.

After the way JB grabbed Josiah's arm during the Jubilee birth announcement I do believe he's got in in him physically confront Josh, but I think if anyone loses their shit physically on him Michelle is the most likely candidate by far.

Under that baby voice she's scary af and I can't imagine her anger at the shame of it all...again.  

His brothers?  JD didn't cut off contact when he learned what happened to his sisters, who he ostensibly loves....he may be more angry this time since he's now a father and that does make a lot of people take this stuff more seriously, but there will be no Duggar heroes here.

[Jana814]

Josh has been treated as a king his entire life. The fact that this happened doesn’t surprise one bit. 

[Jezzable]

48 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

It bothers me that TLC doesn't seem to be taking a strong stance. They've always been exploitative but it's gross to think of them attempting to profit off this sort of family trauma.

Not sure if it's been posted, but here's a petition to get the Duggar shows off the airways:  https://www.change.org/p/discovery-channel-delete-all-duggar-shows?

[Drala]

7 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I've been thinking about what you said about Josh and consequences. The whole head shaving thing is weird, because I always thought that was the punishment for a promiscuous woman. But I guess for the macho fundy culture that makes the head shaving even more humiliating if you are supposed to be a manly man. 

Soon after FRC terminated his employment after his incestuous assaults became public, it also became public that he using Ashley Madison in attempt to meet women. He was also allegedly hiring sex workers. I wonder if this wasn't a desperate attempt to find a less criminal way of satisfying his urges. (Content warning:

) The fact even after blowing up his life several times he still continues to seek out CSA materials indicates that his drive for CSA materials is more important to him than anything, including his next breath. 

 

Ever since I learned about Josh's molestation of a 5-year-old, I've suspected he was strongly paedophilic.  Since I have clinical training, I was hesitant to label him as such without more information.  Some CSA perpetrators, especially adolescents, will act on an impulse that doesn't become a fixed pathology.  Your theory that he hired adult sex workers to compensate for his paedophilic urges is plausible.

I also resonate with your statement that his CSA compulsion "is more important to him than anything, including his next breath."  I think there's more going on with Josh than a lack of empathy and a sense of entitlement, which I see as garden variety narcissism. Without denying or minimizing his criminality, I think he is a sick and dangerous MF who needs to be locked up and kept on a short leash.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

I don't know who Tabitha Paine is. I don't read about most of the families. Maybe someone else can answer that. 

 

Tabitha is a sister of Chad Paine, who is married to Erin Bates, whose family is close to the Duggar family. (The Paine family is also prominent in ATI. Was it Chad and Tabitha’s father who once told a young woman who had been sexually assaulted that she probably was delusional because of low blood sugar and should eat a granola bar?) Erin and Chad’s wedding was featured on an episode of 19K&C during the boring spell after Josie was okay and before the girls started courting.

The suggestion was probably a dark joke, because Tabitha’s husband is a sex offender himself. As I recall, he had raped a female roommate.

[llucie]

12 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

I don't know who Tabitha Paine is. I don't read about most of the families. Maybe someone else can answer that. 

 

She was a live-in nanny for the Duggars for years. She is also the sister of Chad Paine (married to Erin Bates). She married a convicted rapist. He was pardoned and he no longer has to register as a sex-ofender. And as far as i know they dont have kids, but they are very private.

[ExTeach713]

13 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I also think with these alleged comments (and also Jill's 'it's sad' comment) that sometimes reporters ambush people to try to get a comment. Pepe do not always chose the best words when caught off guard.  Until I have reason to believe that anyone besides Josh had any prior knowledge about this I am going to assume the family was truly shocked and are probably still processing.  I am sure they are going through many different emotions. I suspect when this is all said and done and the truth comes out at trial we are going to see a bigger split in the family than just Jill and Derek.  

 

That is my thought as well. I think this is going to be horrendously painful for Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy, as well as Jana. It may FINALLY cause them to realize what an incredible injustice their parents did to them. In addition, I don’t see any of the young couples taking this well for a variety of reasons. Will they all break free? I seriously doubt it, but it could certainly lead to some serious conversations and hopefully some healthy distancing. I think even the Caldwells will want to persuade Kendra and Joe to pull away a bit.

[llucie]

3 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Tabitha is a sister of Chad Paine, who is married to Erin Bates, whose family is close to the Duggar family. (The Paine family is also prominent in ATI. Was it Chad and Tabitha’s father who once told a young woman who had been sexually assaulted that she probably was delusional because of low blood sugar and should eat a granola bar?) Erin and Chad’s wedding was featured on an episode of 19K&C during the boring spell after Josie was okay and before the girls started courting.

The suggestion was probably a dark joke, because Tabitha’s husband is a sex offender himself. As I recall, he had raped a female roommate.

It wasnt a joke at all. Since he was "saved by God", and the word of a pastor on his repentance got him pardoned i  wouldnt be surprised if he is considered a great example for Josh...

[The Baby Humanist]

 

So now we know, per 'The Sun' anyway, that Anna Duggar plans to stand by her man ... because of course she does. She's literally not been allowed to think an original thought her whole life. 

 

If Josh goes to prison (and he likely will, this time), then Anna faces the possibility of spending up to 20 years married but still alone.

 

We know that what the Duggars, Pearls and Alexanders SAY about these things [paraphrased]: "Tough titties, gurl! But divorce ain't no option."

 

If Josh does hard time, his kids WILL grow up without him. The family doesn't have to like it. It's simply what would happen.

 

But what happens in the more common scenario?

 

A husband/father abused the kids, but he'll be out and about in the world. The children are removed into foster care. And Mom has a choice: Her hubby or her kids? She can get her children back — IF AND ONLY IF she effectively ends her relationship to the abuser and kicks his ass to the curb.

 

I don't think we've seen this full scenario play out in the public eye, but obviously this happens to private families all the time — including Fundie ones.

 

So how DO these ATI/Quiverful/Independent Baptist faith communities handle situations like that? They can thumb their noses at The Gubm't all they want, but the law does what the law does. They HAVE to pick a side. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy
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[Phyllis_Stein]

I have to wonder how Josh treats Anna in the bedroom. It seems highly unlikely that he's capable or willing to have a normal, loving physical relationship and treat her with tenderness and respect. I imagine terrible, trauamatizing things happening on a regular basis. As she has no frame of reference, maybe she thinks what happens to her is normal. 

[fundiefan]

When Jed was trying to play politician, he was given a house in the district and an accountability partner. 

I would not put it past the boob to do something similar for his golden boy. Plop one of his over 18, unmarried spawn into a house, put twin beds in one of the rooms, and let him be Joshies 3rd party. 

[Unicorn28]

Pa Keller would be a good person for third party because of his ministry and he could come to Arkansas and stay in one of JB empty houses with Josh. He would be close to Anna to talk with her and he would be honest with Josh about prison life and wouldn't let him break any rules. 

The thing I wonder about is what consequences is there on the third party person if they allow Josh to break the rules? Will they face prison time? 

[The Baby Humanist]

9 minutes ago, Phyllis_Stein said:

I have to wonder how Josh treats Anna in the bedroom. It seems highly unlikely that he's capable or willing to have a normal, loving physical relationship and treat her with tenderness and respect. I imagine terrible, trauamatizing things happening on a regular basis. As she has no frame of reference, maybe she thinks what happens to her is normal. 

I totally agree. Moreover, I read yesterday that if anything, her own upbringing was even more rigid than that of the Duggars, and that she literally did not know the mechanics of sex at all before the wedding night.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Destiny
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[JenniferJuniper]

5 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

When Jed was trying to play politician, he was given a house in the district and an accountability partner. 

I would not put it past the boob to do something similar for his golden boy. Plop one of his over 18, unmarried spawn into a house, put twin beds in one of the rooms, and let him be Joshies 3rd party. 

That's a thought, but there aren't many brothers that qualify, and he'd never give up Jana.  James? I've always had the feeling they didn't trust that one.  But Jeremiah might work.  Whatever happened to the house he and the twin were living in?

[The Baby Humanist]

 

?????????, ???? ????.

 

(ɪ ᴘᴏsᴛᴇᴅ ᴛʜɪs ᴏɴ ғʙ ʏᴇsᴛᴇʀᴅᴀʏ. ɪ ᴡᴀs ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ ᴀ ғᴜɴᴅᴀᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟɪsᴛ, ʙᴜᴛ ɪ ᴡᴀs ᴀ ᴅᴇᴠᴏᴜᴛ ᴄʜʀɪsᴛɪᴀɴ ᴡʜᴏ ᴇɴᴅᴇᴅ ᴀɴ ᴀʙᴜsɪᴠᴇ ᴍᴀʀʀɪᴀɢᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴀ ᴘᴀsᴛᴏʀ ᴀғᴛᴇʀ ᴀʟᴍᴏsᴛ 20 ʏᴇᴀʀs.)

 

 

[emoji177][emoji189] This topic is near and dear to my heart — and it's way bigger than the Duggars or even Fundamentalist Christianity.

 

First: It's true that the Duggars' Independent Baptist beliefs are extreme. The ATI or Quiverful Movement IS a legit cult. And Anna is a victim. (So is Josh, but he's also a victimIZER.)

 

Their children protection, and Anna needs public support, not condemnation.

 

???: ??? ???'? ???? ?? ?? ?? ? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ????????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ????????.

 

⊱⋅ ────────── ⋅⊰

 

There is domestic abuse in EVERY demographic: rich and poor, black and white, religious and not, gay and straight. And it comes in many varieties; not all of them are physical or tangible.

 

In some dysfunctional families, the parents DON'T care about the kids, or even actively exploit them. But those aren't the families I mean.

 

Most of the time, when physical, emotional, sexual and/or religious abuse is happening in a household, the children ARE loved, the parents love each other, and the situation is complex.

 

⊱⋅ ────────── ⋅⊰

 

I'm not going to list all the reasons a spouse may stay with someone who's hurting them and/or the kids. There's plenty of information out there if you really want to know.

 

I just want to say that it's VERY easy to be judgemental, dismissive, and condescending of other peoples' lives and choices when it's not YOUR life or YOUR choices.

 

⊱⋅ ────────── ⋅⊰

 

Every time you start with "If it were me...," or "Why don't they just...," STOP.

 

?????????, ???? ????.

 

You don't know. You truly don't.

 

Even if YOU are an abuse survivor, STOP.

 

You survived in your OWN way. Every situation is different, in a million different ways.

 

⊱⋅ ────────── ⋅⊰

 

Know what? I look back on my OWN situation and I can't believe it. I'm absolutely dumbfounded, and even ashamed, of my own thought processes at certain times.

 

AND I WASN'T EVEN IN A CULT.

 

If my life story were made into a movie, I'd be yelling "What the fuck are you thinking!?" "Why the fuck are you doing that?!" at the screen for sure.

 

But even if I heard my own voice from the audience, I'd probably STILL think and do the same damn things — ??? ?ℎ? ???? ???? ??????? ? ??? ?ℎ?? ?? ?ℎ? ????? ?????.

 

I'm absolutely NOT saying we should enable, excuse or ignore abuse. What I'm saying is that ℎ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ? ????? ?? ?????ℎ?.

 

If you can't empathize because you don't understand, that's fine. But OWN that. Okay?

 

Just ADMIT you don't understand. Then shut the fuck up and LISTEN.

 

-tbp

Edited May 2, 2021 by Destiny
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[Cheetah]

Confused by the navigation... why is this thread in SOTDRT rather than in the Quiverfull of Duggars?  For a minute I thought there were 2 threads on the current Josh situation.  (Not that it matters to me but was just curious).

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, Cheetah said:

Confused by the navigation... why is this thread in SOTDRT rather than in the Quiverfull of Duggars?  For a minute I thought there were 2 threads on the current Josh situation.  (Not that it matters to me but was just curious).

I am confused too but I just assume some wires got crossed. 

[Destiny]

8 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

Confused by the navigation... why is this thread in SOTDRT rather than in the Quiverfull of Duggars?  For a minute I thought there were 2 threads on the current Josh situation.  (Not that it matters to me but was just curious).

Whoops, a merge went awry. Please stand by. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Destiny

[Mama Mia]

8 minutes ago, Unicorn28 said:

Pa Keller would be a good person for third party because of his ministry and he could come to Arkansas and stay in one of JB empty houses with Josh. He would be close to Anna to talk with her and he would be honest with Josh about prison life and wouldn't let him break any rules. 

The thing I wonder about is what consequences is there on the third party person if they allow Josh to break the rules? Will they face prison time? 

Unless they themselves were doing something illegal , no. But they would revoke Josh’s ability to be under their supervision and he’d go to jail to await trial/sentencing. Generally he would also have an electronic monitor. 

[seraaa]

Quote

 

His sister Jill spoke out for the first time as she told The Sun that she and her husband Derick are "very sad" and "hope justice is done."

Jill said: "We’re very sad about the whole thing, it’s horrible. It’s all very sad.

"Josh’s wife Anna is pregnant with their seventh child, I cannot imagine how she is feeling."

Law student Derick added: "Obviously if there is anything there related to child pornography, we hope that justice is done. 

"I don’t think anybody supports child pornography. We’re sad for Anna, put yourself in her situation and imagine how you would feel if that happened with your family member.

"I imagine it would be really hard."

 

New from the Dillards. Pretty similar to what the others have been saying. They're sad for Anna, hope to see justice done etc

Edited May 2, 2021 by seraaa

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

Confused by the navigation... why is this thread in SOTDRT rather than in the Quiverfull of Duggars?  For a minute I thought there were 2 threads on the current Josh situation.  (Not that it matters to me but was just curious).

Thanks, I didn't notice.  It was late and mistakes were made....I'll move it now.

[Destiny]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thanks, I didn't notice.  It was late and mistakes were made....I'll move it now.

Wasn't you. A merge went awry a bit ago -- it should already be fixed.

[Idlewild]

29 minutes ago, llucie said:

She was a live-in nanny for the Duggars for years. She is also the sister of Chad Paine (married to Erin Bates). She married a convicted rapist. He was pardoned and he no longer has to register as a sex-ofender. And as far as i know they dont have kids, but they are very private.

And lest we forget the Duggars threw an engagement party for Tabitha and her rapist fiancé, knowing full well of his past. The entire family were there ( including Jill and Derek). They do seem to have the misfortune of knowing an awful lot of sexually violent people.

Incidentally, the rapist fiancé was given a job as a security guard at Crown College and they were fully aware of his past. That’s right, on a campus of young people away from home for the first time.

[Drala]

30 minutes ago, Phyllis_Stein said:

I have to wonder how Josh treats Anna in the bedroom. It seems highly unlikely that he's capable or willing to have a normal, loving physical relationship and treat her with tenderness and respect. I imagine terrible, trauamatizing things happening on a regular basis. As she has no frame of reference, maybe she thinks what happens to her is normal. 

Thinking about Josh & Anna's sex life is a rabbit hole I wouldn't go down for all the tea in China.  With 6+ kids, it had to happen more than once in a blue moon. Just trying to talk about it sends me  into the shadow realm of tired cliches. This is territory for more intrepid minds than mine. ?

Edited May 2, 2021 by Drala

[Lgirlrocks]

If porn is considered cheating (in their circles. I don’t consider it cheating) and Josh has been caught cheating before (sleeping with other women) she could divorce him and be biblically sound in doing so. Cheating is the one thing, according to the Bible, that makes divorce okay. 

Matthew 5:32

English Standard Version

32 (A)But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and (B)whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.