[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[SPHASH]

I wonder what other Duggar associated families like the Bontragers, Maxwells, and Staddons think of all this.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

WOACB is stirring up shit by posting on The Caldwells instagram  " so sorry for what the Duggars have done to your family"

Disgraceful

It's disgraceful if the people doing try to use FJ to brigade or crow...because that's work for us.  Modboxes are exhasuting, y'all!

But seriously, if the Caldwell's don't want messages like that they shouldn't have allowed their childlike teen daughter to marry into a family who kept a known predator in their midst.  If Pa Caldwell wants to hold the umbrella of protection he can take it when the wind blows it inside out and into his stupid face.

3 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

I wonder what other Duggar associated families like the Bontragers, Maxwells, and Staddons think of all this.

Stevehova busted several noncontrasting buttons puffing his chest out with pride and superiority.  I am picturing him locking himself in the bathroom so he can privately dance a spritely jig.  I expect a Seriously....about internet accountability and satan roaming the internet any minute now.

Becky is smirking safe in the knowledge that her similarly hateful and abusive devoid of knowledge on childhood development is superior to those showboating Duggars.  And then she'll cook something which I am sure will be delicious...no snark their food posts always remind me of my family's food and it's yummy.

 

[fluffernutter]

Quote

With the laundry crew of Jinger and Grandma Mary gone who will clean the massive shitstain out of JB's tighty whiteys if he's ever audited.

@HerNameIsBuffy I snort-laughed. Ewww what an image. ?   Random thought- I think this whole hot awful mess is going to go under the category of "Satan made him do it." I live in a conservative area, and there are several people I know through a mutual friend who constantly call out for prayers because "Satan has a hold on so and so" or "Satan has his grip on this person" or even just "The evil one is trying to...." (which always makes me think satan sounds like Voldemort....) I don't think Josh will ever be held truly accountable by his family. Or by his wife. Now the law, different rules, different story. But the family won't look at that as just or fair because it's secular. Just my opinion. 10 or 20 years from now Jill will still be more ostracized. I really do hope I'm wrong though. 

[Glasgowghirl]

14 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

WOACB is stirring up shit by posting on The Caldwells instagram  " so sorry for what the Duggars have done to your family"

Disgraceful

Disgraceful, though it appears the Caldwell's and Duggar's are not friends anymore, Joe and Kendra are still married and don't need people stirring up shit between both their parents any further. I think the other siblings, inlaws and inlaws families shouldn't be getting harrassed on social media over Josh. 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

My two cents worth re the sex workers.  My good friend (I’m her daughters godmother kind of good friend), owned and operated an licensed legal escort service in the 70s and 80s.  I met most of the ladies who worked for her, they were all pretty intelligent and some had a good education.  They were there for the money and the flexible hours.  They were well paid and monitored when they went on a call, payment was only by credit card, clients addresses were on file.  I know there’s a dark side but if done properly I don’t see a problem.

I don’t mean to keep this discussion going but just wanted to have my say.

 

[Drala]

1 hour ago, Jinder Roles said:

Yes and no? You can make the same argument for so many forms of labour. 

There are many people who do their jobs for economic reasons and not because it’s what they truly want to do. Many people with respectable jobs are also “trapped” by the system that demands continuous labour. 

IMO if capitalism didn’t demand continuous wage labour for most of the population, jobs would look a lot different. 

But yes it is true. Sex work is a form of income for a lot of folks who do not have access to more “respectable” forms of labour. People who are poor, gender-marginalized, disabled, black, undocumented or queer (often people with several of these identities) engage in sex work for survival. 

I personally believe sex work should be decriminalized and destigmatized so sex workers can be protected and have more agency. 

I didn't understand the down votes to @Kjaerringa's post until I read a few responses.  I didn't see her question as conflating sex work and trafficking, but I am not well versed on this topic. I think your comments on sex work as wage labor is a balanced response.  In many cases sex work is illegal, can be extremely dangerous, and is highly stigmatized.  I would hope that no one felt compelled by economic circumstances to do any sort of work with these characteristics, but I know we don't live in an ideal world. I agree that sex work should be legal, regulated for safety, and destigmatized.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Drala

[ladyicantxplain]

15 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Random thought- I think this whole hot awful mess is going to go under the category of "Satan made him do it." I live in a conservative area, and there are several people I know through a mutual friend who constantly call out for prayers because "Satan has a hold on so and so" or "Satan has his grip on this person" or even just "The evil one is trying to...." (which always makes me think satan sounds like Voldemort....) I don't think Josh will ever be held truly accountable by his family. Or by his wife. Now the law, different rules, different story. But the family won't look at that as just or fair because it's secular. Just my opinion. 10 or 20 years from now Jill will still be more ostracized. I really do hope I'm wrong though. 

Ahhhh, yes, "the DEVIL"...just like their Garden story that they like so much: the man blamed "the woman God gave him" and the woman..."blamed the DEVIL."

That has been THE BIGGEST HURDLE to overcome when doing what I've been doing (helping women become SANE and functional after leaving abuse/fundamentalist cults/religions).  The DEVIL.

It couldn't have just been his OWN MESSED UP AND DERANGED MIND!  Because...there's a DEVIL. And all Christians have a big, red target on their backs because of this thing called The Devil.

Funny thing: when I actually began to look into the original Hebrew, the "satan" (the one Western Christians refer to as "the Devil") is really the corrupt MIND with twisted thoughts...of a person who isn't "in their right mind".

So, ironically, "Satan made him do it" - if only they realized that the book they love so much (Bible) REALLY taught that Satan is WITHIN...and a twisted part of a person who isn't thinking "right" (Hebrew mystics believed the right mind is spiritual and not merely concerned with lusts).

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by ladyicantxplain
egads the typos - so sorry - repeated edits from a grammar-obsessed writer

[Satan'sFortress]

Re: treating/rehabilitating pedophiles.  I heard this on This American Life several years ago, and have thought about it ever since. It definitely gave me a new perspective on the issue.  Seems the system in the US is not prepared to treat these people, so what is their option?

(It is about a young man who was having thoughts about pedophilia and his struggles in trying to get help. He never acted on any of the urges, and did a lot to try to get therapy. It did not go well.  Trigger warnings abound.)

Tarred and Feathered (This American Life)

Edited May 2, 2021 by Satan'sFortress
typo

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, The Baby Humanist said:

If you can't empathize because you don't understand, that's fine. But OWN that. Okay?

 

Just ADMIT you don't understand. Then shut the fuck up and LISTEN.

But we have to hold adults responsible for their actions. Even Anna.  I can empathize that leaving is hard, but in the end she made the choice to stay and continue having children with a man she knew had molested young children. She knew it was more than just touching over clothing.  And she had the audacity to whine about not getting to be on tv!
 

I fully believe Anna would have covered this up if she could have. She loves the reality tv lifestyle and was working on getting that back. I’m not going to shut up saying she needed to have left and needs to leave now. Innocent  children lived in a house with a pedophile because she didn’t want to make the tough decision to get herself and her kids out. She has more resources than many other abused women. She has more education than other abused fundies who have left their husbands. She had family right there to help her get out. She had choices, and she chose to stay. 
 

I understand it is hard and it is scary, but it is long past time for Anna to put her children first. And that means not staying married to a man like Josh. Her kids seeing her stay in this marriage sends them a terrible message regarding people who abuse children. The act of not filing for divorce is hurting her children. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by formergothardite

[zee_four]

1 hour ago, browncoatslytherin said:

i empathise with you and those other women greatly, i do. stripping in particular is glamorised in media in ways it never should. it's a job, period. a job that folks who don't have a lot of options have to fall to.

my husband in particular, in 2019, witnessed a lot of worker exploitation at a couple of jobs he worked, one a meat shipping company, the other a pallet company. extremely low wages, literally body-breaking labour (he couldn't feel his hands for literally *months* because of nerve damage) but for someone who has a record, not even one for violent offenses but *any* record? and no education? and nebulous documentation? they don't have many other options in our area. and while my husband was able to eventually land a housekeeping job at a local hospital and make some more money, more *stable* money, many of those folks had to stay and deal with it because they also had no choice and have to sacrifice the well-being of their bodies to support themselves and their families.

Mahalo ♡

I have a non violent drug felony myself which has really negatively impacted my life on top of everything else.

Where I live now, its very similar for local people who are all PoC, despite being in a resort/touristy place.

I do have to disagree with just one point. Sex work isn't just another demeaning low paying job. It is a demeaning and more often than you'd think, low paying  job don't get me wrong. But its a whole new level of soul crushing for many, men and women and everyone in between or outside the binary. 

ETA spoiler.  Content warning: graphic description of sexual content

Spoiler

 

The last place I worked at was about 3 or so years ago. I'd been clean for years and wasn't using. But I lost my job serving for no reason and it was the end of the season where I lived where the mountain shuts down, there's no work etc. I desperately needed to keep my benefits but those weren't close to being enough. I drove 100 miles to the club, to make money under the table and scrape by until the next season.

It was owned by mob members (as was where I worked in Rhode Island and NYC/NJ) and a total dive. I couldn't get work at the "nicer" clubs I'd worked at from 18-23 or so on and off because I was 30 and had a child, my body wasn't what it used to be. I'm 6' 3" and was about 155 lbs at the time and was told I was too fat to work there.

But yeah the stage was awful, I hit my head if I wore my heels, the pole spun and jangled like it was going to fall over and the worst was the "private dance area". It was a nasty fake leather, torn up and stained couch in the back corner with curtains and one of the bouncers standing there. At the end of the night the owner, a giant guy, would come around and touch us and hug us, he was nicer than the bouncers, but he'd push us to get private dances before close.

One night there were 3 guys on the couch with me and 2 girls giving them "dances" at the same time. The type of disconnect you have to have grinding on some strangers erection as he keeps slipping his fingers inside of you, sandwiched between two other girls doing the same one who was so bombed she was letting the guy go much further, making moans of pleasure and mechanically grinding your ass, with a fake smile, staring at the dirty wall instead of your client eyes because that sort of intimacy combined with what you are doing is just too much. For two whole songs, all for an extra $20 and hopefully a few extra in tip.

I can't even describe the state of mind I'd have to escape to. When I was using it was so much easier. Especially having a history of sexual assault, to not flinch when you get touched, not start tearing up when they talk dirty. Going home to your boyfriend and wanting just to cuddle with clothes on because that feels more intimate than what you just got finished doing.

Other jobs don't have that. 

I want to say that while I believe most sex work is exploitative, I don't agree with the paternalistic attitude about sex workers, like we're children who need adults to take care of us. We deserve agency its the one thing that'll is stripped away (no pun intended but now that its there... lol) through our work, through the clients, through the bouncers and owners who treat us like property and cash cows, through our poverty,  etc. There needs to be systemic change and we deserve to fight for ourselves, not to have to "be saved". 

Hope that makes sense!

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by zee_four
Added spoiler

[closetcagebaby]

This podcast interviews a mom and son who found out that their husband/father was a serial child abuser and was imprisoned for it. It’s really interesting as they are also extremely religious and a big family. 
 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by closetcagebaby
Forgot the actual link

[countressrascal]

Regarding Josh going to Florida IF he is released on bail, only thing I learned during prior four years is how the Fed's handle criminals because there were a lot of them. Roger Stone had to get approval to stay in Florida after he was released on bail in Washington DC, to go back to Florida he was on home arrest and had to wear an ankle bracelet, which he had to pay for. I think it was because he was a resident of the state. Someone else wanted to go to his second home after being released on bail and the judge turned him down. So I have a feeling the Josh boy will have to stay in Arkansas with an ankle bracelet and bunch of other restrictions. He might get bail due to COVID. However, he will have to pay for any type of restrictions that are required for him to be released, which could be hundred of dollars a month. I think Micheal Cohen said that he is paying $1,000-$1,500 per month for his home confinement.

Under Arkansas law, a Level 3 or Level 4 offender is not allowed to live within 2,000 feet of a school, certain parks, youth centers or day cares. Level 4 registrants are also prohibited from living within 2,000 feet of any place of worship

Level 2: Moderate risk for repeat offense within community at large. ... Level 3: The risk of repeat offense is high. The degree of danger posed to the public is such that a substantial public safety interest is served by active dissemination. Learn why sex offenderbackground check reviews are important.

He would be a registered sex offender for 15 years after he is released from prison.

Thank you GOOGLE.

[browncoatslytherin]

10 minutes ago, zee_four said:

<just snipping for length, here>

I want to say that while I believe most sex work is exploitative, I don't agree with the paternalistic attitude about sex workers, like we're children who need adults to take care of us. We deserve agency its the one thing that'll is stripped away (no pun intended but now that its there... lol) through our work, through the clients, through the bouncers and owners who treat us like property and cash cows, through our poverty,  etc. There needs to be systemic change and we deserve to fight for ourselves, not to have to "be saved". 

Hope that makes sense!

 

oh no, it definitely makes sense. and we are/were in different areas of the industry, so obviously our perspectives and experiences will differ as well. all of my work is done online, through social media and networking in that way, which changes up some of the dynamics.

and absolutely, i agree, i don't want someone on the outside "saving" me or anyone else, that's incredibly devaluing and dehumanising in a whole other way. and systemic change will help a *lot* more people as well, and in a whole lot better way than hand wringing over the poor women (like some do, not you).

Edited May 2, 2021 by browncoatslytherin
forgot words

[keep_my_spleen]

6 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

But we have to hold adults responsible for their actions. Even Anna.  I can empathize that leaving is hard, but in the end she made the choice to stay and continue having children with a man she knew had molested young children. She knew it was more than just touching over clothing.  And she had the audacity to whine about not getting to be on tv!

Part of me wants to agree with you and part of me...disagrees.

The part of me that disagrees says: yes, but...as an ex-fundie myself, I was engaged before my 18th birthday.  I don't know how old Anna was when that happened to her.  But I almost didn't have a choice.  My friends started to pull away from the lifestyle then, and my parents did too.  And that's when everything fell apart for me.  I think Anna and other women like her didn't have that pulling away.  They are just that entrenched.

I do agree that she had children with a child molester and that's...pretty insidious (although I was molested as a child and almost married that man anyway, so I can also see the brainwashing there although I DO NOT condone it). 

And the part about reality TV.  That does seem shallow to me and probably part of why she's staying.

[Tatar-tot]

Anna truly does not understand the mind of a pediphile especially why it is so wrong that a grown an getting sexually excited by the naked body of a child.   Anna is probably thinking either it’s false accusations or she should have more sex with Josh.  ANNA THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU OR YOU BEING SEXUALLY AVAILABLE TO JOSH.  
Josh is a sick dangerous man.  He can NEVER be near children - ever - even his own. 

4 minutes ago, countressrascal said:

Regarding Josh going to Florida IF he is released on bail, only thing I learned during prior four years is how the Fed's handle criminals because there were a lot of them. Roger Stone had to get approval to stay in Florida after he was released on bail in Washington DC, to go back to Florida he was on home arrest and had to wear an ankle bracelet, which he had to pay for. I think it was because he was a resident of the state. Someone else wanted to go to his second home after being released on bail and the judge turned him down. So I have a feeling the Josh boy will have to stay in Arkansas with an ankle bracelet and bunch of other restrictions. He might get bail due to COVID. However, he will have to pay for any type of restrictions that are required for him to be released, which could be hundred of dollars a month. I think Micheal Cohen said that he is paying $1,000-$1,500 per month for his home confinement.

Under Arkansas law, a Level 3 or Level 4 offender is not allowed to live within 2,000 feet of a school, certain parks, youth centers or day cares. Level 4 registrants are also prohibited from living within 2,000 feet of any place of worship

Level 2: Moderate risk for repeat offense within community at large. ... Level 3: The risk of repeat offense is high. The degree of danger posed to the public is such that a substantial public safety interest is served by active dissemination. Learn why sex offenderbackground check reviews are important.

He would be a registered sex offender for 15 years after he is released from prison.

Thank you GOOGLE.

These are federal charges not state.  It does not matter what the state sanctions are.  He will be tried and sentenced under federal law. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, zee_four said:

It was owned by these Eastern Europeans

I am sorry you seemed to have endured some terrible experiences, but what does the ethnicity of the owners of the club have to do with anything?

[zee_four]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I am sorry you seemed to have endured some terrible experiences, but what does the ethnicity of the owners of the club have to do with anything?

It doesn't, sorry I was just describing details as much as I could. Now that I've gone back and reread what I posted I see how that looks inappropriate. Can I delete that?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

This podcast interviews a mom and son who found out that their husband/father was a serial child abuser and was imprisoned for it. It’s really interesting as they are also extremely religious and a big family. 
 

 

Thanks for posting this.  Do you know if the family is in favor of accountability or if they are defending the offender?

I'm just asking because a lot of people are struggling with this topic for many reasons, all horrible, and it can help to know if you're going to hear something pro-accountability or to avoid more religious justification.  Even when hosts push back and that stuff is presented as wrong and crazy it can be hard to hear in a certain from of mind, if that makes sense.

2 minutes ago, zee_four said:

It doesn't, sorry I was just describing details as much as I could. Now that I've gone back and reread what I posted I see how that looks inappropriate. Can I delete that?

You're within the 90 minute edit window so yes, thank you.

[nelliebelle1197]

12 minutes ago, countressrascal said:

Regarding Josh going to Florida IF he is released on bail, only thing I learned during prior four years is how the Fed's handle criminals because there were a lot of them. Roger Stone had to get approval to stay in Florida after he was released on bail in Washington DC, to go back to Florida he was on home arrest and had to wear an ankle bracelet, which he had to pay for. I think it was because he was a resident of the state. Someone else wanted to go to his second home after being released on bail and the judge turned him down. So I have a feeling the Josh boy will have to stay in Arkansas with an ankle bracelet and bunch of other restrictions. He might get bail due to COVID. However, he will have to pay for any type of restrictions that are required for him to be released, which could be hundred of dollars a month. I think Micheal Cohen said that he is paying $1,000-$1,500 per month for his home confinement.

Under Arkansas law, a Level 3 or Level 4 offender is not allowed to live within 2,000 feet of a school, certain parks, youth centers or day cares. Level 4 registrants are also prohibited from living within 2,000 feet of any place of worship

Level 2: Moderate risk for repeat offense within community at large. ... Level 3: The risk of repeat offense is high. The degree of danger posed to the public is such that a substantial public safety interest is served by active dissemination. Learn why sex offenderbackground check reviews are important.

He would be a registered sex offender for 15 years after he is released from prison.

Thank you GOOGLE.

You Googled the wrong statutes. Arkansas laws only apply to state crimes. These are federal charges.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, countressrascal said:

However, he will have to pay for any type of restrictions that are required for him to be released, which could be hundred of dollars a month. I think Micheal Cohen said that he is paying $1,000-$1,500 per month for his home confinement.

Yes, but Michael Cohen has assets.  I have no idea what property Josh and Anna own, but I'd bet money his net worth is low enough that they'll waive the costs.  I live outside of Chicago and our county does home arrest all the time due to overcrowding it's not contingent on being able to pay for the service.  So many people have no assets or legitimate sources of income it wouldn't work.

[nini9]

1 hour ago, Jewels64 said:

KJ is rarely correct and claims info she gets from Reddit as her own. I highly doubt KJ attended the zoom charges. 

Actually i've had this suspicion myself since the hearing a few days ago. She was claiming to have a link to the meeting and said "so-and-so" (i.e Lauren, Jessa, etc) were logged in and honestly there is not another youtuber to confirm her claims. She had a livestream post trial and definitely an hour after the news reports came out about the charges. It makes me wonder if she was actually there or not because the timing was very sus. I do think she has like a duggar-family friend she gets information from, but I don't think Amy or anyone in the extended universe talks to KJ as much as she claims they do. 

The discussion about Josh's assets being hidden is very interesting and I wouldn't put it past JB to hide Josh's money though. Especially if there is a chance he knew about all of this pre-arrest. 

[Kailash]

I wish I kept a list of suspected trolls on FJ. Sometimes people act suspiciously but drop off the radar and I forget about them. Then they make some OTT post and I remember. ?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, nini9 said:

The discussion about Josh's assets being hidden is very interesting and I wouldn't put it past JB to hide Josh's money though.

To be fair it would be JB hiding JBs money if any were in Josh's name.  Josh has never earned his own money.

This reminds me, I meant to ask if anyone knows what he was doing for 'work' when Anna posted about how he was such an excellent provider.  I don't follow these people....does he still have the car lot?   I thought someone posted it was closed and I'm confused.

[formergothardite]

6 minutes ago, keep_my_spleen said:

don't know how old Anna was when that happened to her.

She was what, mid to late 20's? And she had lived in Washington D.C. and she had siblings who had left the lifestyle and were still fully loved by her parents. She had family offering to help. I would have more sympathy if she was an 18 year old whose family would have shunned her. 

 

9 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

Anna truly does not understand the mind of a pediphile especially why it is so wrong that a grown an getting sexually excited by the naked body of a child.

Of course she understands. It is ridiculous to think she doesn't.  Her husband did the very thing her mother in law was claiming trans people would do. She lived in D.C. surrounded by people whose brand was ranting about how liberals/gay/trans people are evil because they think adults being attracted to children is okay. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS! Was the rallying cry she was a part of. 

This idea she can't understand what he did is bad is bullshit. They have been claiming it is bad for years, just claimed it was the other people doing it, not anyone in their own camp. 

[closetcagebaby]

8 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thanks for posting this.  Do you know if the family is in favor of accountability or if they are defending the offender?

I'm just asking because a lot of people are struggling with this topic for many reasons, all horrible, and it can help to know if you're going to hear something pro-accountability or to avoid more religious justification.  Even when hosts push back and that stuff is presented as wrong and crazy it can be hard to hear in a certain from of mind, if that makes sense.

You're within the 90 minute edit window so yes, thank you.

They are actually the ones that reported him so they are very very much in favor of reporting. The son is an Anabaptist minister and talks a lot about how fundamentalism breeds a lot of abuse. It’s very interesting and thus far gives basically the blueprint of how best to handle it.