[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[louisa05]

27 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

And I think the "childlike" mannerisms are encouraged more than we know.  Back in my days at an conservative evangelical college I was astounded to encounter some young women who basically acted like kids.   Not most of them but the few who did, it was rather disconcerting to deal with them.  I remember one discussion where one classmate basically engaged in baby talk.

When I taught at a Christian school that was a mix of evangelical and charismatic families, most of the mothers from charismatic denominations talked in a Michelle Duggar baby voice. Their daughters did when talking to male classmates especially.  As far as I understood that then, it was considered more feminine. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

As much as the family will want to circle the wagons, this is not the time to keep it "all in the family".    Josh should be not anywhere near his siblings and his married siblings with their own families actually have a duty not to let their kids anywhere near their uncle.

 

He won't be allowed to be in a residence with children so any of his siblings with kids would have to leave their own families to babysit him and the optics on that wouldn't work for JB and M.

My inner Gladys Kravitz is dying to be a fly on the wall at the TTH.  I want to see how off camera Michelle is doing.

[nokidsmom]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My inner Gladys Kravitz is dying to be a fly on the wall at the TTH.  I want to see how off camera Michelle is doing.

OMG, Mr. No has called me Mrs. Kravitz over this!  

Great minds think alike and all that. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

When I taught at a Christian school that was a mix of evangelical and charismatic families, most of the mothers from charismatic denominations talked in a Michelle Duggar baby voice. Their daughters did when talking to male classmates especially.  As far as I understood that then, it was considered more feminine. 

Not babytalk, but my voice goes higher, softer, and a little breathier when talking people in authority or unknown authority to me.  Also if I'm attracted to a man.  I actually had to train myself out of this when I entered the work force.  I stop it now, but it's still my default.

My mom's voice did the same.  She went from devout Catholic to fundy-lite and always deferred to men.

 

[Rachel333]

Michelle totally sounds like that even when cameras aren't rolling - I've heard her! Obviously I haven't seen her around only family, though, and I don't doubt that she has her scary moments.

14 hours ago, marmalade said:

Boobchelle denied ALL family members being raided. The quote was brought to my attention earlier today, so it's fresh in my memory. ?

He's probably embarrassed to use the TTH as his address. The house itself is uninhabitable.

They specifically denied a raid occurring at their house only, and then said that "to the best of their knowledge" no family members were under investigation, so they might not technically have been lying but was very misleading.

Quote

We were shocked to see a news report today state that our home was raided by federal law enforcement agencies. This is not true. To the best of our knowledge, it's also not true that any member of our family is the target of any investigation of any kind. Living a life in the public's eye has taught us that it is best not to reply to every rumor and piece of 'fake news' that is circulated online. It would be a full-time job if we attempted to do so. However, because of tonight's media coverage we thought it is important to address this rumor with you. Thank you for the love and support that we can always count on in you our fans and friends.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize that it took me to the first page when I logged in and so was replying to an old post.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Rachel333

[seraaa]

5 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

Incidentally, if you haven’t already you might want to look at the work of Timpsons  who provide employment opportunities for ex offenders- they do some great work.

I did not know this! That's really fantastic of them. A good thing.

And yeah, I can imagine there is still so much work to do to turn these ideas into policy reality. They are complex, expensive changes and it'd take time and effort. Not the fast and shiny election promises

[FiveAcres]

We had one of those women with childlike mannerisms (and an amazing amount of face spackle, MEOW)  boarding a horse at our barn for a short while. She mostly ignored the women, and tried to glom onto our partners when they were around. Our partners, intelligent guys with an advanced sense of self-preservation, tried to keep as much distance as possible. Rumor was that she finally found a much older sugar daddy and was able to induce him to marry her. 

[seraaa]

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

Hopefully, he'll get some therapy/re-hab in prison. 

Honestly this might be the one (1) good thing that emerges from all this, besides Anna potentially getting herself into a better place.

[Satan'sFortress]

53 minutes ago, eye_browz said:

I bet Anna will write a book in exchange for a substantial amount of money that would help support her and the kids. 

I'd be afraid that book would be something about standing by your man no matter what, godly Christian marriage, etc. etc. Sadly, there would probably be a market for that.

[blackkatya]

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Not babytalk, but my voice goes higher, softer, and a little breathier when talking people in authority or unknown authority to me.  Also if I'm attracted to a man.  I actually had to train myself out of this when I entered the work force.  I stop it now, but it's still my default.

My mom's voice did the same.  She went from devout Catholic to fundy-lite and always deferred to men.

 

My "customer service voice" does this, now that I think about it.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

59 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

They should be doing it now since the charges preclude him being alone with a minor....if they are going to try to mitigate future harm with that they need to investigate if it's already occurred.

I hope this is being handled sensitively already.  I also hope they respect the privacy of the kids which means we shouldn't know the results of the evaluations.  And this should be all kids on the compound, not just his.

They should also be interviewing every adult in regards to anything they may have seen, sometimes weirdness is obvious in retrospect.  

I have wondered if the kids actually go to bed up at the big house with their young aunts/uncles. This is not news to some of the Duggars at least ---they have had some warning.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I have wondered if the kids actually go to bed up at the big house with their young aunts/uncles. This is not news to some of the Duggars at least ---they have had some warning.

It's been speculated for a while that the kids were living in the big house, not sleeping in the warehouse but I don't know if there was a source for this or just musings that get spread.  I certainly hope that's the case even though it wouldn't prevent abuse, any distance is a good thing.

[FrozenSmile]

42 minutes ago, Howl said:

Mrs. Pecan Thief,  Anna's sister, has this breathy, child-like presentation. I've never seen a video with audio of Anna or Esther (Mrs. The World's Worst Missionary).  Do they have this affected way of speaking as well?

Yes, Anna (and all the older Duggar girls) is very soft-spoken & meek. I always assumed that they were all just trying to do what Michelle did, but reading more into ATI throws that assumption out the window. 

[nokidsmom]

20 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

When I taught at a Christian school that was a mix of evangelical and charismatic families, most of the mothers from charismatic denominations talked in a Michelle Duggar baby voice. Their daughters did when talking to male classmates especially.  As far as I understood that then, it was considered more feminine. 

Yes, given that a lot of young women at my college were really there to snag a husband it was not surprising to see them either employ the baby voice or just alter their normal voice a bit around the guys.  

There was one young woman who, while she was a very nice person, her childlike mannerisms were so annoying even I was tempted to break with being nice and tell her to please stop and act like a grown up, she was in college, not preschool.  She was engaged to her longtime boyfriend, a guy who seemed to have a decent head on his shoulders and I wondered how on earth such a guy could tolerate someone who behaved like a kid.  Now I understand the reasons better but honestly when I heard they got married and had 6 kids (including 2 sets of twins), I thought, nope, M**** has 7, he had his first kid the day he got married.   Yeah, I was snarky even back then.

Edited May 2, 2021 by nokidsmom
Riffle

[fundiewatch]

Anna idolizes Michelle. I have no doubt she and the kids will move back in fully. Josh will go to prison and afterwards will be sent to treatment for at least a year, probably longer. 

[Alisamer]

11 minutes ago, blackkatya said:

My "customer service voice" does this, now that I think about it.

I think mine does too. Higher, more pleasant, more cheerful. I have found myself in the past few years doing the opposite when speaking to people in authority- especially my boss if I think he’s irritable. Lower, firmer, measured and calm, no emotion at all in my voice then. I think it’s a defense mechanism but it seems to project a no-nonsense competence that seems to stave off angry reactions sometimes. 

[hand holder]

There are a lot of Tiktoks about the breathy, young-girl voice being used by female gamers, too. There was a whole series that one creator started about teaching other girls to make their voices higher pitched, breathier, more "young" sounding so that men would send them money. Apparently it really works, especially when you mix in the fetishization of Asian-presenting female gamers. Twitch streaming has become a lucrative career for some of these women and I don't doubt men being attracted to that "style" of self-presentation has something to do with it. 

[zee_four]

5 hours ago, Drala said:

I also found the discussion on pornography and addiction interesting. The posts on consensual sex work vs trafficking and how these things are associated or not with porn are also fascinating.  The thread moves so quickly, I don't have time to ask questions or comment.

I have a background as an addiction counselor as well as having my own history with drug addiction and am currently getting my masters in social work to be able to get a higher level of certification. So if you ever have questions or want to have an academic chat on the issue, feel free to reach out to me. I haven't been on FJ in awhile after dealing with getting out if an incredibly abusive (including physically) relationship last year but when I saw Joshgate 3.0 I came back.  I forgot how much I missed it.

 

[Kjaerringa]

@browncoatslytheryn: regarding the sex work discussion on the previous thread: yes, I have had many people explain the pay/schedule hellaciousness when explaining why sex workers proven to be the best option for them, as well. Here's where I am still concerned: perhaps you can share your view on this point?

If someone has chosen to be a sex worker because our society refuses to support a living wage and work schedule with good and affordable (read: subsidized) daycare, then isn't our society trapping people into choices they might not otherwise make, just as human traffickers do? Isn't the agency for choice being taken away, albeit by a societal structure, not by an individual? In any case, the choices are limited, just the same. I've had people tell me similar stories for why they began sex work. In my experience, all were economic reasons, and none were because the person chose the work. In every case, the person told me they wanted something different, but they were either paid too little, unable to find child care, or needed (expensive) higher education to achieve their goals. Nobody cited the fact that they freely chose sex work because they loved the job, and it was fulfilling to them. 

So, I wonder if we can truly say that those workers freely chose the work, after all? Is it truly consent if there is no other financial option?

I am interested in responses.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Kjaerringa
Spelling error

[JenniferJuniper]

47 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

I don't mean to counter anything you said. Family Law isn't my specialty, although sometimes overlapped. From a law enforcement perspective, investigators now have legal reason to interview the family, to determine whether additional charges should be brought. So, for that reason alone, family members will be interviewed.

I'm remembering Capturing the Friedmans.  The Feds had Arnold on one charge of receiving a pornographic magazine containing images of teen boys, but when they learned he taught computer classes in the basement of his home, they starting questioning the students and then all hell broke loose.  

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, llucie said:

It wasnt a joke at all. Since he was "saved by God", and the word of a pastor on his repentance got him pardoned i  wouldnt be surprised if he is considered a great example for Josh...

Maybe within their cult, but a federal judge won't go for that shit.

[FiveAcres]

Edited: Didn't mean to post a block copy.

Edited May 2, 2021 by FiveAcres

[hoipolloi]

19 minutes ago, Howl said:

Josh needed an intense intervention w/ science-based counseling with a secular psychiatrist/credentialed psychologist as a teen and then as an adult, and he didn't get it.  Hopefully, he'll get some therapy/re-hab in prison. 

All of this. Appropriate treatment & therapy -- for Josh AND his parents -- might have prevented the current situation.

As @WiseGirl and @AussieKrissy have pointed out, a "cure" isn't going to happen with therapy or anything else but at least he and his family would have learned how to avoid future harm, to the extent possible.

 

[nokidsmom]

23 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I'd be afraid that book would be something about standing by your man no matter what, godly Christian marriage, etc. etc. Sadly, there would probably be a market for that.

Agree there would be a market for that type of book, but (not that she would do this) if she wants to do a book for the $$$, then do the tell-all instead.    More readers, even if it's out of schadenfreude.    I might do it because I am damn curious about all the s**t, known and unknown, that has gone on within the walls of the TTH and anything that exposes our Wholesome Christian Family for what they are (even beyond what we know) is fine by me.

Edited May 2, 2021 by nokidsmom

[FiveAcres]

5 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

All of this. Appropriate treatment & therapy -- for Josh AND his parents -- might have prevented the current situation.

As @WiseGirl and @AussieKrissy have pointed out, a "cure" isn't going to happen with therapy or anything else but at least he and his family would have learned how to avoid future harm, to the extent possible.

 

The whole "marriage to a Godly Young Woman will fix this problem" approach needs to be staked, have its head cut off, and be buried in the ground. Then, sow the ground with salt.  

Edited May 2, 2021 by FiveAcres
typo