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[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son


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17 minutes ago, imokit said:

It may be that the 3rd party person isn't a Duggar.  All those kids and none of them able to mind big brother safely

I think that will be the case. One of those shadow cult members, like the one that kept Josh for a while when he was a teen and the abuse was discovered.

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23 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I read through the questionnaire. It was quite illuminating. Whoever volunteers to be the 3PC is volunteering to be responsible 24 x 7 for both Josh and all of his actions at the time of the custodianship. He or she would be responsible for reporting Josh if he infringes on even one of the terms of his court ordered release.

It would be a nightmare, since Josh shows no sign of taking any responsibility for his actions, past, present or future. 

So a lot of restrictions on the life of the approved person, too. I would be surprised if it were someone in the immediate family.

Re cousin Amy - it sounds like they're in the initial "I don't want to believe this is true" stage (although who knows to what extent her comments reflect how she feels, and it might change). I actually cannot imagine clinging on to such a hope and then going through the public trial process only for it to be confirmed that yes, actually, he did it. For his family's sake if it is obvious he'd lose in court I hope Josh takes the plea deal.

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17 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I read through the questionnaire. It was quite illuminating. Whoever volunteers to be the 3PC is volunteering to be responsible 24 x 7 for both Josh and all of his actions at the time of the custodianship. He or she would be responsible for reporting Josh if he infringes on even one of the terms of his court ordered release.

It would be a nightmare, since Josh shows no sign of taking any responsibility for his actions, past, present or future. 

What happens if nobody volunteers for this job? Would it mean Josh would continue to be held in custody?

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I think the dynamics of this family are such that no family member should be put in this position of having to vouchsafe for Josh's behaviour.

He cannot be trusted for anything

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Apologies if this been asked before, if convicted, Josh faces hefty fines as well as prison time. If tight fisted JB refuses to pay, will that increase prison time? 

 

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Yikes. File me under the “last to know” heading. I’ve had a busy week and haven’t checked in on fundie news since maybe Tuesday or Wednesday...only to come on here and find this! Shocking, yet not surprising I suppose. ?

The whole situation is really sad - so many people, particularly children who had no way to protect themselves, have been harmed by his actions over more than 15 years. 

Assuming Josh is guilty, and especially if the material involved young children, this is the best possible thing that could happen. He is a sick individual who needs to be kept away from children, starting with his own. Because even if he hasn’t acted on these urges (beyond the teenage molestation we already know about), it’s only a matter of time before he does.

Anna frustrates the hell out of me but I do still have some sympathy for her. The woman has been brainwashed her entire life, and believes that her role as dutiful wife is central to her very existence. But her parents have shown some flexibility in their thinking - they have children who have left the cult but they haven’t shunned them. I certainly hope that Anna’s parents and siblings will step in and look out for her and the kids, because we already know the Duggars won’t.

I just hope that the case is airtight, and he is prevented from harming any children from here on out.

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The questionnaire says the third party custodian has to surrender their firearms? Not going to be popular with the people the Duggars mix with. 
I can’t see any of his immediate family being eligible. It will have to be a friend they who owes them big time. I can absolutely see Josh violating the terms of his bail either by contacting his children or accessing the internet.

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3 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

3rd party custodian questionnaire.pdf (fd.org)

This is a third party custodian questionaire just for reference. I believe it is for Federal Cases. Warning: it's long.

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QUESTIONS FOR THIRD PARTY CUSTODIANS

Client”s name

Third party custodian’s name

INAPPROPRIATE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS MARKED BY * AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFY A PERSON FROM BEING A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN. PLEASE FIND AND PREPARE SOMEONE TO REPLACE THEM. I

n federal court, unlike state court, a person is detained (kept in jail) if the government moves for detention, unless the judge after a court hearing releases the person on certain conditions. These conditions are called conditions of release. In almost all cases the judge will not consider releasing the person unless there is a third party custodian with whom the defendant can live. The following is information that the defense attorney and you must know before you can be considered as a third party custodian.

1. Do you understand that the judge sets the conditions of release and that if the defendant does not comply with the conditions of release, the defendant will be immediately arrested?

2. Do you understand that as third party custodian it is your duty to call the U.S. Probation Office and immediately report any violation of the conditions of release? 

3. Would you call and report any violation even if it meant the defendant would be immediately arrested? IF THE ANSWER IS “NO”, THE PERSON IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN.

*4. Are you willing to serve as third party custodian?

5. Do you understand that to qualify as third party custodian you will have to testify in court under oath and that you will be cross-examined by the government and the judge?

6. How long have you known the defendant? How do you know the defendant? Relative? Work? School?

7. Where do you live? Is it a house, apartment or trailer?

8. Who else lives there? What are their ages? What is the relationship between the defendant and these people? What is the relationship between you and these people?

9. Is there room for the defendant to stay with you?

10. Has the defendant ever stayed with you before? When? For how long?

11. The defendant is charged with an offense that occurred on___________ Was the defendant living with you at this time?

12. Are the other people who live with you willing to have the defendant stay there?

*13. Are there any firearms or other weapons where you live? If there are, can you move them to another location immediately? IF THE PERSON REFUSES TO REMOVE THE FIREARM OR WEAPON, THE PERSON IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN.

14. Are there any controlled substances (drugs or prescription drugs) where you live?

15. Is there a land line telephone where you live? If there is, what is the phone number? If the judge orders electronic monitoring, you would have to disconnect all features like call waiting from your phone. Are you willing to do this?

16. Is there internet access where you live?

17. Do you work? Where? What are your hours? When you are at work, who would be with the defendant? Does your spouse work? If so, what days and hours does your spouse work?

18. Do you have a valid driver’s license? Do you have a car?

*19. Other than minor traffic violations, what if anything have you ever been convicted of? This includes misdemeanors and felonies, even if you were put on probation. Are you now on probation, parole or supervised release, even if it is unsupervised? Other than minor traffic violations, what if anything have the other people living with you ever been convicted of? This includes misdemeanors and felonies. The U.S. Probation office will run an interstate record check on you. IF THE PERSON HAS A FELONY CONVICTION, HE OR SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN..

20. Have you ever failed to appear for a court appearance? If so, why?

21. Are you aware of the defendant’s prior convictions?

22. Are you aware of what the defendant is charged with?

*23. Have you talked to the defendant about these charges? Has the defendant made any statement to you about these charges? IF THE DEFENDANT HAS MADE INCRIMINATING STATEMENTS TO THE PERSON, HE OR SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN..

24. What is your date of birth?

25. What is your social security number? This information will not be given to anyone. It is needed to run a criminal record check, which the court requires. _______________________ 26. Are you a U.S. citizen? COURT STARTS AT _____ am ON _______________. IF YOU ARE NOT AT THE COURTROOM AT LEAST ONE HOUR BEFORE COURT STARTS, YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO QUALIFY AS A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN. THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IS LOCATED AT 310 NEW BERN AVENUE IN RALEIGH

Date

 

I feel like the fire arms clause would disqualify a lot of people the Duggar’s know and a lot of them...

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It’s always seemed to me that the Duggar female siblings compete with one another to see how many kids they can have, in the same way guys will compete with each other to show how many guns or guitars or vehicles they can collect. I think Anna competes along with her sisters-in-law by continuing to have child after child. It’s also a bonding thing, “look, we’re all having sex kids!” since that’s basically the only thing the women are permitted to be good at, bearing children.  Of course, none of this is verbalized among themselves. 

I wonder how it came to be that the Feds found probable cause to raid Josh’s auto business looking for evidence. I do not think Anna knew what they’d find. She so wants to have that “normal” fundie marriage like her sisters-in-law have, where the husband is supposed to be content with just his wife and they keep having children to show/prove his devotion to her. Josh knows Anna wants to believe in the fairytale, tells her what she wants to believe and knows she will not question it. Anna doesn’t want to see the bad in Josh because that disrupts her fantasy of the fundie marriage propaganda she bought in to. She doesn’t want to admit the failure and farce of being married to Josh. 

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What are the chances of Josh not wanting bail? He is going to do jail anyway, if he would stay put, wouldn’t that count as time served? Going out on bond means facing very upset and angry family members. I can see him in his cell wallowing in self pity and leaving his family to clean up his s#@t outside. But I’m not US citizen, I may be missing something?

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4 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

3rd party custodian questionnaire.pdf (fd.org)

This is a third party custodian questionaire just for reference. I believe it is for Federal Cases. Warning: it's long.

  Hide contents

QUESTIONS FOR THIRD PARTY CUSTODIANS

Client”s name

Third party custodian’s name

INAPPROPRIATE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS MARKED BY * AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFY A PERSON FROM BEING A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN. PLEASE FIND AND PREPARE SOMEONE TO REPLACE THEM. I

n federal court, unlike state court, a person is detained (kept in jail) if the government moves for detention, unless the judge after a court hearing releases the person on certain conditions. These conditions are called conditions of release. In almost all cases the judge will not consider releasing the person unless there is a third party custodian with whom the defendant can live. The following is information that the defense attorney and you must know before you can be considered as a third party custodian.

1. Do you understand that the judge sets the conditions of release and that if the defendant does not comply with the conditions of release, the defendant will be immediately arrested?

2. Do you understand that as third party custodian it is your duty to call the U.S. Probation Office and immediately report any violation of the conditions of release? 

3. Would you call and report any violation even if it meant the defendant would be immediately arrested? IF THE ANSWER IS “NO”, THE PERSON IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN.

*4. Are you willing to serve as third party custodian?

5. Do you understand that to qualify as third party custodian you will have to testify in court under oath and that you will be cross-examined by the government and the judge?

6. How long have you known the defendant? How do you know the defendant? Relative? Work? School?

7. Where do you live? Is it a house, apartment or trailer?

8. Who else lives there? What are their ages? What is the relationship between the defendant and these people? What is the relationship between you and these people?

9. Is there room for the defendant to stay with you?

10. Has the defendant ever stayed with you before? When? For how long?

11. The defendant is charged with an offense that occurred on___________ Was the defendant living with you at this time?

12. Are the other people who live with you willing to have the defendant stay there?

*13. Are there any firearms or other weapons where you live? If there are, can you move them to another location immediately? IF THE PERSON REFUSES TO REMOVE THE FIREARM OR WEAPON, THE PERSON IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN.

14. Are there any controlled substances (drugs or prescription drugs) where you live?

15. Is there a land line telephone where you live? If there is, what is the phone number? If the judge orders electronic monitoring, you would have to disconnect all features like call waiting from your phone. Are you willing to do this?

16. Is there internet access where you live?

17. Do you work? Where? What are your hours? When you are at work, who would be with the defendant? Does your spouse work? If so, what days and hours does your spouse work?

18. Do you have a valid driver’s license? Do you have a car?

*19. Other than minor traffic violations, what if anything have you ever been convicted of? This includes misdemeanors and felonies, even if you were put on probation. Are you now on probation, parole or supervised release, even if it is unsupervised? Other than minor traffic violations, what if anything have the other people living with you ever been convicted of? This includes misdemeanors and felonies. The U.S. Probation office will run an interstate record check on you. IF THE PERSON HAS A FELONY CONVICTION, HE OR SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN..

20. Have you ever failed to appear for a court appearance? If so, why?

21. Are you aware of the defendant’s prior convictions?

22. Are you aware of what the defendant is charged with?

*23. Have you talked to the defendant about these charges? Has the defendant made any statement to you about these charges? IF THE DEFENDANT HAS MADE INCRIMINATING STATEMENTS TO THE PERSON, HE OR SHE IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN..

24. What is your date of birth?

25. What is your social security number? This information will not be given to anyone. It is needed to run a criminal record check, which the court requires. _______________________ 26. Are you a U.S. citizen? COURT STARTS AT _____ am ON _______________. IF YOU ARE NOT AT THE COURTROOM AT LEAST ONE HOUR BEFORE COURT STARTS, YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO QUALIFY AS A THIRD PARTY CUSTODIAN. THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IS LOCATED AT 310 NEW BERN AVENUE IN RALEIGH

Date

 

So a third-party custodian is basically like an enhanced babysitter. Regarding question 17 on work: can Josh be left alone at all when the custodian isn’t there? If not, maybe he needs to go to a household with two adults?

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Part of me thinks he didn’t tell the full story to his family and they found out with the world the details. I imagine they are all in shock and Anna blaming herself for not being enough. 

I want Anna to leave. Don’t think she will. 


But I also 100% think after some time, the family will do a victory lap of “look what satan threw us and we came out more convicted of our beliefs” ?

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2 hours ago, Sky with diamonds said:

would it be possible for the court to appoint someone?

No, the court will not appoint someone the court is fine with you staying in jail awaiting trial.  

1 hour ago, Cactus said:

What happens if nobody volunteers for this job? Would it mean Josh would continue to be held in custody?

Yes, they would continue to hold him until trial. 

1 hour ago, Sops2 said:

I think the dynamics of this family are such that no family member should be put in this position of having to vouchsafe for Josh's behaviour.

He cannot be trusted for anything

I agree but I also think Jim Bob will pressure someone to to work something out. For example he could have one of the older married boys could send their wife to live on the compound and then they take custody of Josh. With all the family someone will be forced to deal with Josh. They will probably be terrible at it and it will be a nightmare to deal with.

1 hour ago, Nike said:

Apologies if this been asked before, if convicted, Josh faces hefty fines as well as prison time. If tight fisted JB refuses to pay, will that increase prison time? 

 

No, most people don’t have the cash upfront for fines anyway. He will be expected to pay them off for the rest of his life and periodically explain to the court what’s going on with his payments after he is released but it won’t effect his sentencing.

22 minutes ago, Jinderella said:

What are the chances of Josh not wanting bail? He is going to do jail anyway, if he would stay put, wouldn’t that count as time served? Going out on bond means facing very upset and angry family members. I can see him in his cell wallowing in self pity and leaving his family to clean up his s#@t outside. But I’m not US citizen, I may be missing something?

Yes, it would count as time served. However, typically where you are held while waiting for trial is worse then after trial. Before trial it’s usually everyone murders, financial crimes ect. all held together with people coming and going for court regularly. After trial your moved to appropriate security, get prison jobs, have more stability so you make friends. As a result most people would prefer to do their time after sentencing.

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4 minutes ago, kachuu said:

Part of me thinks he didn’t tell the full story to his family and they found out with the world the details. I imagine they are all in shock and Anna blaming herself for not being enough. 

I want Anna to leave. Don’t think she will. 


But I also 100% think after some time, the family will do a victory lap of “look what satan threw us and we came out more convicted of our beliefs” ?

I’ve thought about that but I feel like JB had to know. They transferred assets to Anna and JB married off a ton.

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1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

The questionnaire says the third party custodian has to surrender their firearms? Not going to be popular with the people the Duggars mix with. 
I can’t see any of his immediate family being eligible. It will have to be a friend they who owes them big time. I can absolutely see Josh violating the terms of his bail either by contacting his children or accessing the internet.

I agree, I think they’re going to have a hard time finding someone to mind Josh. But leaving him in jail implies they don’t support him.  What’s it going to be, Boob?

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So honest, snark free question: (I know y’all are about to school me) What does Anna have to gain by a divorce at this point? It would make a statement, but the wrong one for her community. Who’s to say she couldn’t stay married but not call/visit/etc? I doubt she would remarry, and Josh has no way to pay alimony/child support from prison. So really right now, does a divorce even serve her? 
I don’t give Anna this much credit to be thinking this way, I think she is gross enough and invested enough to honestly be standing by him right now. But I was just wondering what everyone’s thoughts might be. Maybe dreaming that she stays married for the appearance of it and then the week he is released from prison she files for divorce/full custody/child support. 

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Slightly off topic but I've just remembered that Pest was the host at Nurie Rod's wedding. He featured prominently in THE wedding video. Like he was making those stupid jokes and acting all smug, and there's no way for either families to pretend they did not pick him... 

I wonder what's going on in J'Rod's RV right now... Did her delusional dreams of a reality show finally get crushes? There are so many fundies surrounding the Duggar whose Internet popularity will dip, whose morals & opinions are gonna be scrutinised... 

 

I'd thought we'd had more statements from all those people by now, including the Bates who have been associated with that family for years and whose entire Internet & TV presence comes from their appearances on 19KAC.

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I hope Jed and Katy say no to taking on Josh, they are young newlyweds and don't need the responsibility of Josh. Same goes for Jana if she is about to get engaged then why should she deal with him either. Jim Bob and Michelle do share blame for how they acted when he offended first time but Ultimately Josh is an adult and this is his mess and his siblings shouldn't be expected to be the ones who make sure he follows bail conditions. 

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1 minute ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I hope Jed and Katy say no to taking on Josh, they are young newlyweds and don't need the responsibility of Josh. Same goes for Jana if she is about to get engaged then why should she deal with him either. Jim Bob and Michelle do share blame for how they acted when he offended first time but Ultimately Josh is an adult and this is his mess and his siblings shouldn't be expected to be the ones who make sure he follows bail conditions. 

What are the odds of him actually being released on bail though?

His family is known for having so many little kids around at all times. I'd be surprised a judge would thing they could keep him away from small nibblings or siblings because there is an entire TV show evidencing that the family is always hanging out together... 

 

Any law people got some theory? 

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2 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I hope Jed and Katy say no to taking on Josh, they are young newlyweds and don't need the responsibility of Josh. Same goes for Jana if she is about to get engaged then why should she deal with him either. Jim Bob and Michelle do share blame for how they acted when he offended first time but Ultimately Josh is an adult and this is his mess and his siblings shouldn't be expected to be the ones who make sure he follows bail conditions. 

I wholeheartedly agree, but if Boob can manage to get a sibling approved as a minder, they’re not going to say no because ‘family’ and money. Unless they’re ready to break away themselves, they’re stuck. 

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5 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

I'd thought we'd had more statements from all those people by now, including the Bates who have been associated with that family for years and whose entire Internet & TV presence comes from their appearances on 19KAC.

I think the Bates are smart not to release any statement and continue as usual. By speaking out, they highlight that they do have a connection to Josh and the rest of the Duggars, but by not saying anything, they don’t associate themselves with this mess.

And in a way, they don’t need to say anything IMO: they were (are?) friends with the Duggars, but have nothing to do with Josh’s behavior. People like Carlin - who is friends with Joy-Anna - have no reason to feel like they should have known. They’re innocent and the scandal only affects an acquainted family, not them. 

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