[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, picklepizzas said:

I think the only way Anna leaves is if she thinks she will lose the kids if she doesn’t. 

Sadly, I think there is a strong possibility that she would risk it in order to avoid what may be in her mind a bigger scandal, divorce.

Those people are always bitching how the government tries to take their kids just because they are sweet homeschooling Christians.  The government stepping in and telling her what to do with her Christian marriage (how they'd spin it) would make her a martyr in her world.  Divorce and figuring out how to support 7 kids without the praise of the cult for being a devoted wife and mother....I bet that's a far scarier prospect for her.

I do think the only possibility of Anna leaving is your scenario, though.  I would bet the risk of losing her kids would be the only think that could possibly break through her brainwashing.

1 hour ago, Angelface said:

The transfer of assets is more an indication that they thought that this was to do with financial matters/ tax issues. At least that is how I interpreted it.

He was involved in an unrelated lawsuit last year or so over a property dispute.  That's about when the transfers happened IIRC.  I don't think that had anything to do with this criminal case.

[formergothardite]

14 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That is a lot of excuses you've bundled up in a lovely package for him.

The millions upon millions of current and former teenage boys who dealt with over riding horniness, lack of life experience, raised by people with sexist attitudes who never sexually abused anyone would like a word.

Exactly. He is hardly the only one raised in a restrictive environment. The reason Josh molested a five year old is because he was attracted to children and his parents covered it up and came up with excuses instead of getting him help. He then grew into adulthood in a culture where he watched the politicians he admired commit an assortment of sexual assaults and Josh’s political party tended to come up with excuses for them. Why should he fear getting caught or suffering consequences or even getting help? Josh needed help a long, long time ago, but I really think he was sure that even if caught nothing would be done to him. 
 

8 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

He was likely raised with the belief that earthly/secular rules don’t really apply to him, and only Godly/ATI rules apply to him.

This is not just an ATI problem, this is a much larger issue in our society. Josh seems to view himself as important and he has been watching important men get away with all sorts of awful things. ATI and the teachings sure didn’t help, but him smirking while being arrested is the smirk we have seen time and time again when powerful men are sure they aren’t going to suffer any real consequences. 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

Just now, FiveAcres said:

...and when you have the urge to sexually assault a five year old, it is her fault because she tempted you. (Evil little hussy)

That’s ATI/BG for you. And she’s taught it’s a blessing and has to thank you for molesting her.

Not sure about why The umbrella of protection is needed then. I guess it’s only a blessing if a family member rapes you.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

28 minutes ago, Drala said:

Such a lack of self control can be described as either insanity or addiction.

There is a legal definition of insanity which requires the inability to determine right from wrong.

People do horrific things to others every day even though they know they shouldn't, because their own gratification is worth the risk of getting caught.  That doesn't make them insane or addicted, which infers that their behavior is beyond their control.  

[Satan'sFortress]

11 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

@nelliebelle1197 Here is the article from Thriving Forward. Emily Elizabeth Anderson was one of the plaintiffs against Gothard. It looks like she was also on Called to Peace Ministry discussing the Duggars. Her blog is under spoiler where she explains why Anna won't leave smuggar. She also discusses ATI curriculum and why it is so harmful.

https://www.facebook.com/ThrivingForwardBlog

https://www.calledtopeace.org/

  Reveal hidden contents

Why has Anna Duggar stayed with Josh and continued to have children with a confirmed child molester? My thoughts as a Duggar cult insider...... The Duggar family is the poster family for a homeschool, patriarchal, fundamentalist cult called the Advanced Training Institute (ATI) created by a man named Bill Gothard (BG). My family was involved with ATI during the same years that the Duggar family was and I used to hang out with the Duggar daughters in our small social circles. I made my escape from ATI in 2015 after I came to the realization that I had been sexually groomed by BG as a minor. I soon joined a lawsuit against BG with 18 fellow victims with similar allegations and to this day I have been shunned by the community due to speaking out. Let me explain some of the very specific teachings of ATI in hopes that you will understand exactly why the Duggar family has handled the Josh situation they way they have, and why Anna has continued to stay by his side and continued to birth his children. 1. The word “abuse” does not exist in ATI. When I came forward that I had been sexually molested as a child by my own father, it was not called abuse within my ATI circles, it was called being “inappropriate”. ATI followers are told that the way secular, professional therapists and the way the government handles abuse is bad. They are taught that sexual abuse is, more than anything, a sin, and therefore it must be handled within the church. Licensed professional therapist are considered dangerous, and so you are only allowed to seek Christian counseling. This is why when Josh first told his parents as a teenager that he was molesting his younger sisters, he was sent away to an ATI camp as therapy. Abuse is always dealt within the system. 2. ATI followers are taught to be thankful for abuse. I was told by Bill Gothard himself when he found out that I had been molested by my father that I needed to write my father letter THANKING him for molesting me, because it had made me spiritually stronger. Emotional, sexual, physical abuse are considered badges of honor within the system. There is no such thing as depression, anxiety, trauma response, or PTSD, and if you are dealing with symptoms of any of those then you are told you are not trusting God. This is what the Duggar daughters would have been taught regarding the abuse they experienced from their brother. 3. ATI followers are taught something called “The Power of Spoken Blessing”. If you are being abused by someone, you are not to confront them or seek help, but you are to pray a prayer that God would bless that person with the attributes they are missing. Example: “God please bless this person with patience, and kindness.” Again, most of the responsibility in dealing with abuse situations is placed on the victim. 4. ATI followers are taught that homeschooling is the only Godly way to educate your children. You are taught that public schools are dangerous and evil and that if you send your children to public school they will reject God. If Anna Duggar were to separate or divorce from her child-molesting husband, she would have to face the reality of putting her children in a public school while she went to work. This is *unimaginably terrifying* for an ATI woman, for she is taught this will destroy her children’s lives. 5. ATI women are taught that their calling in life by God is to be a stay at home mom and homemaker. ATI women are taught that if they seek higher education, or seek any employment outside of the home, they will be open to spiritual attacks from Satan, and will more than likely be raped by a random attacker or one of their children might die. Women are told they must live in a home under the authority of a man. Single women must live in heir father’s home until the authority has been “transferred” to their husband in a marriage ceremony. If Anna Duggar were to divorce and then live in her own home without the presence of an older male to protect her, she has been taught she would be open to attacks from Satan, and God might allow her to be raped, or murdered by an intruder as punishment for being out of submission of male authority. Yes, ATI women are literally taught that living under the authority of a male will offer them **guaranteed** divine protection. (That’s an exact quote from ATI material). 6. ATI followers are taught birth control is a sin. They are taught that “God opens and closes the womb”, and that preventing a pregnancy in ANY way, shape, or form, is not trusting God. This means, couples are not even allowed to consider natural family planning, for choosing to abstain from sex when the female is most fertile would mean you are not trusting God. Why has Anna continued to have children with Josh? Because she has been taught to believe she LITERALLY does not have a choice. 7. Speaking of sex, ATI women are taught that it is a sin to refuse your husband sex. They are taught that men have an uncontrollable sex drive, and that if a woman was to deny their husband at any time, this could cause their husband to “stumble” and possibly have an affair, or develop a porn addiction. Women are taught they are at fault for their husband cheating on them because it wouldn’t have happened it they had given him enough sex (and of course the man gets to decide what ‘enough’ looks like). 8. ATI followers are taught to practice shunning. When you are a part of ATI, you live in a bubble. You are taught that the outside world is dangerous and that you shouldn’t form relationships with anyone that does not conform to the same belief system taught by ATI. You are also taught not have any kind of relationship with people who have “gone astray”, and have left the belief system, INCLUDING FAMILY. If Anna Duggar were to leave, she would have no one to help her. She has no life outside of the fundamentalist word. She would not just be walking away from a marriage, she would be walking away from her entire community, her entire life, her entire culture. The system is designed to keep you in the bubble out of fear. So there you are. Why has Anna Duggar stayed? Because she been programmed to believe she doesn't have the choice to leave. Why have the Duggar's continued to whitewash Josh’s actions? Because they have been taught that what he did was “inappropriate” and “a mistake” but nonetheless redeemable by God. They have been taught to deal with Josh’s problems privately, within ATI churches, and we all know how horrible the church is at properly handling abuse. Anna Duggar does not need your condemnation right now. She does not need criticism for staying with Josh. She should not be told that she’s getting what she asked for because she choose to stay. She is a victim of a system designed to trap women. She needs our support. She needs our love. She needs brave people coming forward and telling her they will do whatever it takes to help her get out. Please share this post. It’s time the world understand that the Duggar’s lifestyle of “old fashioned family values” is not one to be admired. It is a dangerous cult, that harbors and protect abusers and blames and shames victims. ~ Emily Elizabeth Anderson

 

Thanks for this---extremely interesting.  I came to FJ in large part because I am fascinated by fundamentalist religions of any kind and how people are indoctrinated and kept in. (I stayed for the snark.)

If abuse/sexual abuse is seen as a "gift" on some level--making you spiritually stronger, and not a crime, but a sin, I do wonder if an ATI girl or woman was sexually assaulted or raped  by an "outsider" would that be seen differently? I am sure the woman would still be blamed--why was she alone? Was she showing her knees? Etc. But would this be reported to legal authorities and pursued as a crime?  Would the woman be forced to write a thank you note to the man, like Elizabeth Anderson did?

And finally, from @Sabine in the last thread:

Quote

a museum full of sanitary pads....ha, that is still not a museum for the mighty fine vulvas of this planet. 

Thanks for yet another great band name.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

This is not just an ATI problem, this is a much larger issue in our society. Josh seems to view himself as important and he has been watching important men get away with all sorts of awful things. ATI and the teachings sure didn’t help, but him smirking while being arrested is the smirk we have seen time and time again when powerful men are sure they aren’t going to suffer any real consequences. 

It’s not just an ATI problem, it is prevalent in many high control religions and cults.

[FiveAcres]

3 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

It’s not just an ATI problem, it is prevalent in many high control religions and cults.

Why, it just might explain why there are high control religions and cults. The important people get to do whatever they want, and the rest get to suffer the consequences. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by FiveAcres
typo

[nausicaa]

50 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

At this point, I wonder if JimBob and Michelle are just tempted to throw Josh under the bus, especially after the lawyers get a chance to look at the discovery. 

"This is the hardest thing we have ever done in our lives. However, we can no longer support Josh since he has refused the grace of God to give him the strength to overcome his weakness. Although we will always love Josh, we deplore the choices he has made, and we feel that we now must focus on helping our beloved daughter-in-law and her children to heal. After Josh has faced the consequences of his actions, and accepted the grace of God which is available to all of us, we will welcome him back into the family." 

Tough love, baby. Aren't conservatives all about the tough love?

Not to sound like total idiot, but why aren't JB and Michelle doing this? It falls in line with their beliefs. I just don't understand it. Is it ignorance around pedophilia, an unhealthy loyalty to their golden child, or are they just sociopaths? I don't understand their motivations or what they think they're accomplishing. 

I didn't agree with their approach in 2003, but I understood their motivation. They were confident they could hush it up and save face. And I do think they believed Josh could pray it away. There's no hushing this up and the Feds don't care about how much you pray.

[Snarkasarus Rex]

2 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Deanna probably wouldn't do it because she wouldn't be allowed to have Daxtyn in her home when Josh is around and she would definitely rather be able to babysit and have her Grandson over night rather than have Josh. 

Deanna wouldn’t just say ‘no’, but ‘hell no’. Not only for the reasons you stated, but Boobchelle have used her personal struggles for years as fodder for their ‘lectures’, and have treated Amy as a ‘bad influence’ for the ‘sin’ of being born outside wedlock. 

[formergothardite]

11 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Why, it just might explain why there are high control religions and cults. The important people get to do whatever they want, and the rest get to suffer the consequences. 

And most of these people have been able to present themselves as the ones who stand for family values and any criticism  is an attack on the family. They are all very good at controlling the narrative. That the Bates and Duggars have awful beliefs regarding child abuse has not exactly been secret knowledge impossible to find, but they have managed to make people turn a blind eye to it all because they look wholesome. 

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Not to sound like total idiot, but why aren't JB and Michelle doing this? It falls in line with their beliefs. I just don't understand it. Is it ignorance around pedophilia, an unhealthy loyalty to their golden child, or are they just sociopaths? I don't understand their motivations or what they think they're accomplishing. 

I didn't agree with their approach in 2003, but I understood their motivation. They were confident they could hush it up and save face. And I do think they believed Josh could pray it away. There's no hushing this up and the Feds don't care about how much you pray.

The only reason I can think of for them to stand by him now is to try and keep some control over him. Josh blabbing all the family secrets would destroy their empire. I bet Jim Bob is desperate to keep as much control as possible over him. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Not to sound like total idiot, but why aren't JB and Michelle doing this? It falls in line with their beliefs. I just don't understand it. Is it ignorance around pedophilia, an unhealthy loyalty to their golden child, or are they just sociopaths? I don't understand their motivations or what they think they're accomplishing. 

If they didn't take male attraction to children as a given they wouldn't have rules about keeping little girls covered to protect men from their instincts.

They do, however, shun gay family members due to what they call their unnatural urges....which tells you which of those desires they find palatable.

I think they're stuck in some real cognitive dissonance as they know the general public finds such urges disgusting, where they just accept them as part of the normal baseline they shouldn't act on because it's outside of marriage.

 

[Natalie22]

3 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Not to sound like total idiot, but why aren't JB and Michelle doing this? It falls in line with their beliefs. I just don't understand it. Is it ignorance around pedophilia, an unhealthy loyalty to their golden child, or are they just sociopaths? I don't understand their motivations or what they think they're accomplishing. 

I didn't agree with their approach in 2003, but I understood their motivation. They were confident they could hush it up and save face. And I do think they believed Josh could pray it away. There's no hushing this up and the Feds don't care about how much you pray.

My guess is that it's complicated.  Partially disbelief (this can't be true, there must be another reason) partially unconditional love, and partially the fear of what it means for their life choices in reflection.  The first is pretty easy to understand, and I think we can see this in Amy's comments.  Even if you logically know something must be true if it's shocking enough it can take a while for it to actually sink in and for you to emotionally accept it.

For the unconditional love, Josh was their first-born, most wanted child.  They had him before they ever thought of being quiverfull and had two full years of just him before they had JD and Jana.  I'm not saying it makes sense, but it would be a very strong attachment and hard to sever.  

And finally, and what I think may be a very large factor, is that they would have to reflect on their own choices and I can't see them wanting to do that.  To do this would most likely mean they would have to admit to themselves that they messed up as parents in some way, especially given his history.  They have defended him publicly and allowed him so much access to young children it would be very hard to deal with.  Not only would they have to confront their parenting decisions, but they would most likely have to critique their religious beliefs.  People have already posted the ATI documents for SA victims/survivors that put a large amount of blame of the person hurt.  But how does this apply when it's someone looking for photographic evidence of young children?  It's not like the kids in the pictures were 'immodest' in front of him causing him to 'stumble'.  He sought this out purposely.  After taking a break to shower after writing those last two sentences, I just think the reflection piece is too hard for them at this point. 

[fundiefan]

This thread of course moved exponentially fast since I last logged on yesterday & I've tried to follow along but my eyes are glazing over doing all that reading! 

I fully expect Anna to stay. I did see someone posted a link to the video of her essentially pushing her feelings down and doing what she's "told", and that is exactly why I believe she will stay. She will not allow herself to act on any feelings. No fear, no anger, no hurt, no instinct. She will stay cocooned in the Duggar bubble and let them tell her what she "should" do as a good IBLP/Duggar "Christian". The protection and futures of her children will not really enter the equation because in her world, they will already be being protected by being absorbed into the big house, essentially giving the boob & his squeaky toy seven new children, eight if you count Anna herself sleeping in the bed next to Jana in the girl's dorm. Just like last time. 

When you've been betrayed by your spouse, when that spouse has committed crimes & been reveled to be an abuser of children, your gut tells you to run. Your gut is your feeling. Anna will not acknowledge any feeling. Anna will open the female IBLP portal and allow the Boob & others to fill her up with lies & bullshit until she shuts down entirely and is fully absorbed. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I didn't agree with their approach in 2003, but I understood their motivation. They were confident they could hush it up and save face. And I do think they believed Josh could pray it away. There's no hushing this up and the Feds don't care about how much you pray.

Admitting to having sexually assaulted four prepubescent sisters and another didn't kill their show.  It didn't kill their brand.  Hell, here on FJ there are still loads of people who care whether Jana is courting or not or which of the howlers will hook up next....repeated child molestation with multiple victims wasn't a deal breaker for TLC, so it's not unreasonable for them to think they may be able to deflect enough to keep the money coming.

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, Angelface said:

The transfer of assets is more an indication that they thought that this was to do with financial matters/ tax issues. At least that is how I interpreted it. If Josh told JB that he was being investigated for financial reasons it makes sense to put his assets into Anna’s name.
Perhaps the charges have blindsided the whole family. Going to Big Sandy and speaking there is a very strange thing to do if you knew that Josh was going to be arrested and especially if you knew what the charges alleged. The baby announcement doesn’t make any sense in the light of all that has just happened. I think that there is a very real possibility that Josh hoped that he had hidden things sufficiently and that the federal investigation would be regarding financial matters. He may have had very little notice of the arrest. Why would the feds show their hand before they needed to or give any people connected with this any warning? JB may have worried that it was more than Josh was saying but he may have been kept in the dark. 
Josh appears to be someone who tells people what they want to hear and struggles to to face and to tell the truth even when it is staring him in the face and is beyond reasonable doubt. I don’t know if he believes his own excuses or if he hopes that he can buy himself some time to talk himself out of whatever mess he is in. 
IF the family has been blindsided by this I think that they are all going to need therapy to process it. 

I think the family was blindsided. I don’t know why some people are so sure Anna, JB, and Michelle would have known what was going on just because the car lot was raided. I’m sure they questioned him about it at the time and he probably told them he’d messed up on taxes or something like that. Since the computers were all gone they had no way of verifying if what he said was true. Even if JB had asked, the Feds answer was probably “we do not comment on open investigations.” I can see the family genuinely thinking it was financial. Anna’s Instagram comment right after the pregnancy announcement that he works very hard to support the family...she probably genuinely thought all the time he spent at the car lot he was working (I mean...most wives do assume that’s what their husbands are doing at work).

I listened to Scott Reish’s Crime Talk podcast (it was recommended in the True Crime thread) and he said the reason it took so long to charge him was because they have to make absolutely sure that it was him at the computer and no one else...not another employee, a customer, or anyone else the defense can come up with.

I do think Anna’s reaction will be different this time because this time it’s a different situation...in 2015 she was embarrassed, but her husband’s actions weren’t illegal (I’m not talking about teenage Josh’s mess that came out in 2015...she’d been misinformed by all the adults in her life and believed that to be a closed/resolved chapter). I think the Ashley Madison scandal shook her, but she did what she thought was right at the time, her husband went away for awhile, they both went to counseling, and many wives stay with their husbands after being cheated on. She was sure it would be different.

This time she’s facing the reality that he is involved in very sick, very illegal things, and even if he manages to get the charges dropped, she’ll continue to be faced with new embarrassment after new embarrassment down the road. She didn’t think/know that would happen last time when she reconciled. Now she does.

I don’t think she’ll make any immediate long-term decision now...she’s probably in a state of shock and still deciding whether or not to even take a call from him, and if she does, what she would even say. I think she’ll make her move after sentencing. If he gets somewhere around 20 years I can see her divorcing him quickly. If he gets five years or less I can see her waiting until closer to his release, but then filing and getting a restraining order.

Women in ATI have gotten divorced and remarried for much less than this. I remember years ago when the Jim Voeller situation went down and when his wife remarried just a few years ago her kids put out a statement saying how happy they were for her. 
Anna will get a lot of support for deciding to leave Josh. Not from everyone, but at this point, the majority of people connected with him will be ready to wash their hands of him and let the chips fall where they may.

[FiveAcres]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If they didn't take male attraction to children as a given they wouldn't have rules about keeping little girls covered to protect men from their instincts.

They do, however, shun gay family members due to what they call their unnatural urges....which tells you which of those desires they find palatable.

I think they're stuck in some real cognitive dissonance as they know the general public finds such urges disgusting, where they just accept them as part of the normal baseline they shouldn't act on because it's outside of marriage.

 

Yes. You know that if Josh had been quietly slipping off to see a male lover every week or so, he would have long ago been kicked to the curb and they would have made some sort of statement like the one that I drafted for them. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

My guess is that it's complicated.  Partially disbelief (this can't be true, there must be another reason) partially unconditional love, and partially the fear of what it means for their life choices in reflection.  The first is pretty easy to understand, and I think we can see this in Amy's comments.  Even if you logically know something must be true if it's shocking enough it can take a while for it to actually sink in and for you to emotionally accept it.

For the unconditional love, Josh was their first-born, most wanted child.  They had him before they ever thought of being quiverfull and had two full years of just him before they had JD and Jana.  I'm not saying it makes sense, but it would be a very strong attachment and hard to sever.  

And finally, and what I think may be a very large factor, is that they would have to reflect on their own choices and I can't see them wanting to do that.  To do this would most likely mean they would have to admit to themselves that they messed up as parents in some way, especially given his history.  They have defended him publicly and allowed him so much access to young children it would be very hard to deal with.  Not only would they have to confront their parenting decisions, but they would most likely have to critique their religious beliefs.  People have already posted the ATI documents for SA victims/survivors that put a large amount of blame of the person hurt.  But how does this apply when it's someone looking for photographic evidence of young children?  It's not like the kids in the pictures were 'immodest' in front of him causing him to 'stumble'.  He sought this out purposely.  After taking a break to shower after writing those last two sentences, I just think the reflection piece is too hard for them at this point. 

I agree with every word except the unconditional love.  The root of their cult and entire parenting philosophy is that love is conditional, earned through legalistic obedience.  

People who unconditionally love their children aren't so paralytically terrified of their kids making different choices, or just being themselves.

 

[Irishy]

Without speculating (if that’s even possible), I wonder if there have been male victims that have not come forward because of the double layer of shame they may feel. Paedos do not discern between male and female children. 

[Cheetah]

Aside from the fact that it's not geographically preferable, Josh staying with Mike and Suzette Keller makes a lot of sense to me.  As far as I know, only David still lives with them and he's over 20.  Nathan and Nurie are on the property but their baby isn't due until October.  I'm not aware of anyone else living there.  Mike is used to working with the prison system and has an existing relationship with Josh.  Suzette can still go visit her other grandkids, just not on their property for a couple of months.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Irishy said:

Without speculating (if that’s even possible), I wonder if there have been male victims that have not come forward because of the double layer of shame they may feel. Paedos do not discern between male and female children. 

Agree.  I've mentioned a few times when people would share concern over the girls that CPS needs to evaluate the boys as well.  Even if they have a gender of preference, pedos are more about age and opportunity than gender; no one should assume boys were any safer living with a child predator than the girls.

Every kid on that compound needs to be interviewed to make sure they are safe and therapy mandated if necessary.  (Real therapy, not a Gothard pamphlet.)

[seraaa]

18 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

After taking a break to shower after writing those last two sentences, I just think the reflection piece is too hard for them at this point. 

Yeah. It might be months or even years before the full effects of what has happened settles in. This would be a big turning point in anyone's life if it was someone you knew.

Edited May 2, 2021 by seraaa

[Nike]

6 minutes ago, Irishy said:

Without speculating (if that’s even possible), I wonder if there have been male victims that have not come forward because of the double layer of shame they may feel. Paedos do not discern between male and female children. 

And I've wondered if there are male victims in the material that Josh has and it becomes known what would be more horrifying for the Duggars, the child abuse images or the fact that there could be boys in it.

[Drala]

22 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

...<snip>... Or it could be someone who was raised to think he's exempt from consequences and in magical thinking will risk it thinking getting caught is for other people. I doubt very much these are the first such images he's received, you do something illegal long enough without getting caught you get a false sense of security.

I don't doubt for a second that Josh has a sense of entitlement, but he has experience with facing negative consequences for his behavior, however inappropriate and ineffective those consequences may have been.  Getting his head shaved and being banished to work camp as a teen may have done nothing to address his pathology, but it would have been an unpleasant punishment.  Losing his cushy lobbyist job with FRC and doing time in Jesus jail for his Ashley Madison account also would have been painful. The irrepairable damage to his reputation from his public exposure in 2015 as a child molester--as well as the loss of the 19KAC income opportunity--would have devastated a normal person.

His capacity for magical thinking must be off the charts given the punishment he has already faced for his behavior.  I strongly suspect he has transgressed and gotten away with a lot more than the current incidence with child porn, so yeah, I do think he may have a false sense of security. I hope I'm wrong about the extent of his criminal activity as CSA perpetrator, but I wouldn't be surprised if more charges come out against him.  I doubt all the shoes have dropped where Josh is concerned.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@Beermeet sorry threads are going too quick for me! I cut out the middle man and have a pentagram tattoo, always with me, always protecting me ?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

Aside from the fact that it's not geographically preferable, Josh staying with Mike and Suzette Keller makes a lot of sense to me.  As far as I know, only David still lives with them and he's over 20.  Nathan and Nurie are on the property but their baby isn't due until October.  I'm not aware of anyone else living there.  Mike is used to working with the prison system and has an existing relationship with Josh.  Suzette can still go visit her other grandkids, just not on their property for a couple of months.  

Why would this make more sense than him staying in jail?  The M kids have enough emotional trauma for a lifetime already, knowing their other grandparents gave aide and comfort to a predator as well isn't going to help.

Google my dad's name and you get the usual spokeo old addresses, a year book pic from yearbooksonline, and some old newspaper clippings from the 70s where he was in the local paper as president of little league.

When those M kids are old enough to google their dad there are thousands of memes about him being an incestuous child rapist.  The least the Kellers can do is not give them one more thing to feel betrayed over as adults.

Edited May 2, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy
apostrophes hate me