[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 27:How Many Robocalls Did Michelle Make to Warn People about Her Son

[Glasgowghirl]

4 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

What are the odds of him actually being released on bail though?

His family is known for having so many little kids around at all times. I'd be surprised a judge would thing they could keep him away from small nibblings or siblings because there is an entire TV show evidencing that the family is always hanging out together... 

 

Any law people got some theory? 

Hope the courts don't bail him either because of those reasons. 

[Sky with diamonds]

11 minutes ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

So honest, snark free question: (I know y’all are about to school me) What does Anna have to gain by a divorce at this point? It would make a statement, but the wrong one for her community. Who’s to say she couldn’t stay married but not call/visit/etc? I doubt she would remarry, and Josh has no way to pay alimony/child support from prison. So really right now, does a divorce even serve her? 
I don’t give Anna this much credit to be thinking this way, I think she is gross enough and invested enough to honestly be standing by him right now. But I was just wondering what everyone’s thoughts might be. Maybe dreaming that she stays married for the appearance of it and then the week he is released from prison she files for divorce/full custody/child support. 

She could put her kids safety and well being first. 

[Pleiades_06]

13 minutes ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

So honest, snark free question: (I know y’all are about to school me) What does Anna have to gain by a divorce at this point? It would make a statement, but the wrong one for her community. Who’s to say she couldn’t stay married but not call/visit/etc? I doubt she would remarry, and Josh has no way to pay alimony/child support from prison. So really right now, does a divorce even serve her? 
I don’t give Anna this much credit to be thinking this way, I think she is gross enough and invested enough to honestly be standing by him right now. But I was just wondering what everyone’s thoughts might be. Maybe dreaming that she stays married for the appearance of it and then the week he is released from prison she files for divorce/full custody/child support. 

The biggest thing she has to gain is emotional freedom from Josh and the chance to have a meaningful and fulfilling relationship with someone else. But you’re right: I don’t think she would want to because she’s invested in her toxic fundie community.

[seraaa]

Revisiting past show clips and seeing Anna orient herself around the "correct" response through problematising her own emotions is just....

 

 

Also, in the Megyn Kelly interview, Jessa mentions that they all got counselling. Do any of you snarkers know what she was referring to here?

Edited May 2, 2021 by seraaa

[samurai_sarah]

8 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

(snip)

As for Anna leaving Josh on the last thread (I tried responding but it was locked). I was referring to whether or not Anna will pull the plug since this will heavily affect her ability to support herself and soon-to-be seven children. Josh has put Anna through the ringer before. The biggest difference being this time there are fines, heavier legal fees, more possible civil lawsuits, and no headship (Josh being the husband) to provide for. Josh is going to be pretty much unemployable even if he is acquitted (which I hope he isn't). The car lot he was running is completely gone. It's pretty obvious that Jim Bob and Michelle were helping them out. This whole thing is a mess and Anna is far from prepared for this new reality. Now she has to really face the reality of having to get a job to fully support seven children with a limited education and almost no job skills. 

She'll stay, I'll wager. Precisely because she has a limited education and no job skills. What she can do, however, is cash in on being a martyr, who stands by her man and hits the speaking circuit with bad advice. She can publish books and webinars on how to be the perfect Christian wife, who prettily suffers for her husband's sins.

I do hope that I'm wrong and that you're right. If she does what I predict, she is indirectly profiting from child sexual abuse! Now, I may not be an expert, but I was taught that Jesus had a keen dislike for hypocrites and was all about being nice to each other...

So, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Edited May 2, 2021 by samurai_sarah
Internet froze, accidentally posted several times. And then i edited out the last sentence by accident.

[FiveAcres]

9 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I think the Bates are smart not to release any statement and continue as usual. By speaking out, they highlight that they do have a connection to Josh and the rest of the Duggars, but by not saying anything, they don’t associate themselves with this mess.

And in a way, they don’t need to say anything IMO: they were (are?) friends with the Duggars, but have nothing to do with Josh’s behavior. People like Carlin - who is friends with Joy-Anna - have no reason to feel like they should have known. They’re innocent and the scandal only affects an acquainted family, not them. 

I agree. The smart thing is to not join the Duggars in the tar pit. 

[EyesOpen]

24 minutes ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

So honest, snark free question: (I know y’all are about to school me) What does Anna have to gain by a divorce at this point? It would make a statement, but the wrong one for her community. Who’s to say she couldn’t stay married but not call/visit/etc? I doubt she would remarry, and Josh has no way to pay alimony/child support from prison. So really right now, does a divorce even serve her? 
I don’t give Anna this much credit to be thinking this way, I think she is gross enough and invested enough to honestly be standing by him right now. But I was just wondering what everyone’s thoughts might be. Maybe dreaming that she stays married for the appearance of it and then the week he is released from prison she files for divorce/full custody/child support. 

If she fully left ( which is a huge stretch of an imagination) would she be eligible for Medicaid and other support until she could right her tell all or found other work?

I just (unfortunately) think Anna doesn’t have the gumption or desire for emotional and actual freedom from the cult she’s known. I fear she’ll fold back in to the main house and her sister in laws, cousins and etc will be her friends and support network with the kids. I suspect she’ll wait for Josh. I hope with every fiber of my being I’m wrong.

Edited May 2, 2021 by EyesOpen

[Jess]

14 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

What are the odds of him actually being released on bail though?

His family is known for having so many little kids around at all times. I'd be surprised a judge would thing they could keep him away from small nibblings or siblings because there is an entire TV show evidencing that the family is always hanging out together... 

 

Any law people got some theory? 

As long as he gets someone to agree, and I feel JimBob will force some poor family member to do it, the odds are Hugh he gets released. The court will expect the poor person to follow the rules, and it will be a nightmare since I don’t picture narcissistic Josh to care about things like court rules. However, I think they will get someone approved.

2 minutes ago, seraaa said:

Revisiting past show clips and seeing Anna orient herself around the "correct" response is just....

 

 

Also, in the Megyn Kelly interview, Jessa mentions that they all got counselling. Do any of you snarkers know what she was referring to here?

IIRC after someone emailed Oprah, her people alerted the authorities, too much time had passed so they couldn’t charge him, however, CPS opened a case and the girls were given therapy. At that point a few years had already passed though.

[seraaa]

1 minute ago, Jess said:

IIRC after someone emailed Oprah, her people alerted the authorities, too much time had passed so they couldn’t charge him, however, CPS opened a case and the girls were given therapy. At that point a few years had already passed though.

Thank you! Well, that is something, I guess. Provided it was helpful therapy.

[Pecansforeveryone]

At the very least Anna would be eligible for WIC. There are forms of Medicaid in many states for pregnant women , at least Massachusetts does. Being pregnant and with that many children, I would be shocked if she wasn't eligible for something. 

[EmainMacha]

Surely no judge worth their salt would bail Josh out to a younger sibling? The power balance would be totally skewed in Josh's favour. And the Duggars are gold medal winners in semantics so any howler is going to be told by Jim Bob that it's all right for Josh see his kids, for example, because * some bullshit about the way the order is worded*. No howler would ever call the authorities on Josh either.

I did wonder about Deanna, Amy's mum but I doubt she'd want to get involved with this shitshow. And JB would not be able to control her as effectively as others.

[FluffySnowball]

19 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

The biggest thing she has to gain is emotional freedom from Josh and the chance to have a meaningful and fulfilling relationship with someone else. But you’re right: I don’t think she would want to because she’s invested in her toxic fundie community.

I could imagine that additionally, leaving now would make Anna’s past sufferings seem meaningless and “for nothing” to her. But staying would kind of legitimize what she’s already been through in her mind. So holding on to her horrible marriage and cult might make sense to her and not devalue her previous sacrifices. 

[Nike]

36 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Last night, I watched this youtube video:

  Hide contents

 

The part about Josh's arrest and indictment starts at 18:27. She speaks from the background of a state prosecutor. Based on the indictment and press release about the child porn task force, she speculates that the 2019 raid was specifically targeted to get the CSA materials from Josh's devices. Probable cause for the raid would have been IP addresses, possibly from an online sting operation. As the highest profile offender, his arrest would have come last due to the expected publicity.

She didn't say so directly, but indicated that she uses the term CP instead of the CSA because that is the letter of the law. As many people have mentioned here, prosecutors would prefer pleas because they don't want to subject jurors to the trauma of viewing the materials. "Most people do not want to see this stuff." 

Discovery must be turned over to the defendant's counsel within one week. Then the defense will need to opportunity to review the evidence, which may be voluminous. It is the defense's responsibility to make sure that all evidence was gathered correctly by law enforcement. 

She expects the July trial date to be pushed back. The defendant is entitled to a speedy trial, but counsel will need time to review materials so the defense will most likely ask for a postponement.

She repeated the statistic about 95% of federal cases getting convictions. 

If you are interested in the nuts and bolts of the process, it is worth watching the video. It is quite accessible for the layperson. 

I'm staggered that after the raid in 2019 the authorities did not get involved to protect the children. They knew that he had this filth and let him live with 6 children and have access to dozens more?  Wow.

[Glasgowghirl]

Just now, EmainMacha said:

Surely no judge worth their salt would bail Josh out to a younger sibling? The power balance would be totally skewed in Josh's favour. And the Duggars are gold medal winners in semantics so any howler is going to be told by Jim Bob that it's all right for Josh see his kids, for example, because * some bullshit about the way the order is worded*. No howler would ever call the authorities on Josh either.

I did wonder about Deanna, Amy's mum but I doubt she'd want to get involved with this shitshow. And JB would not be able to control her as effectively as others.

Deanna probably wouldn't do it because she wouldn't be allowed to have Daxtyn in her home when Josh is around and she would definitely rather be able to babysit and have her Grandson over night rather than have Josh. 

[FiveAcres]

Just now, FluffySnowball said:

I could imagine that additionally, leaving now would make Anna’s past sufferings seem meaningless and “for nothing” to her. But staying would kind of legitimize what she’s already been through in her mind. So holding on to her horrible marriage and cult might make sense to her and not devalue her previous sacrifices. 

Yes. The Sunk Cost Fallacy doesn't just apply to money.

[Sky with diamonds]

Anna and all the Duggars should not ever look down their noses at anyone else ever again.  

[Smee]

Gah, my eyes are falling out of my head with tiredness and I can’t catch up on all the posts. I find the discussion about addiction and pornography on the previous thread verrry interesting. I’m a PhD student looking into addiction, but from a humanities /literature angle. I’ve read some fascinating stuff about how addiction is defined and how it’s been understood differently in different time periods and contexts. I have SO MANY thoughts but no capacity to type them up now and by the time I wake tomorrow the thread will have tripled in length and moved on

[SweetLaurel]

This is what breaks my heart for fundie wives.  I'm on many widow sites and so many are just stuck after their husband passes.  They have no money, owe medical bills, can't afford the house payment and haven't worked for decades and despite what they tell you, no one is impressed by your domestic engineering.  I have heard so many stories of losing houses and having to move in with the kids or bawling while learning to run the register at the gas station because it's the only job they can get.   These women have no options.  They have no employable skills.  I can't believe these parents are deliberatly handicapping these women.  7 kids, never had a job. Husband in jail.  Now what?  Move in with the inlaws and live in the girls dorm.    This sucks all around and yet, JB and Michelle will do the same to the lost girls.   Get married and spread your legs for Jesus! It's all your life is now!

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I think the Bates are smart not to release any statement and continue as usual. By speaking out, they highlight that they do have a connection to Josh and the rest of the Duggars, but by not saying anything, they don’t associate themselves with this mess.

And in a way, they don’t need to say anything IMO: they were (are?) friends with the Duggars, but have nothing to do with Josh’s behavior. People like Carlin - who is friends with Joy-Anna - have no reason to feel like they should have known. They’re innocent and the scandal only affects an acquainted family, not them. 

I agree. The Bates have to be very careful if they want to protect their brand. They have worked hard to keep their own participation with the Gothard sexual abuse scandal quiet. And there is always the chance that people will connect them to their IBLP leadership and how that means they support teaching victims of child sexual assault that it is their fault they were hurt. I’m sure they are freaking out right now because people might start digging into what Josh was taught as a child, who currently runs this cult and end up finding Gil and Kelly are deep into some pretty horrific stuff. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, Smee said:

Gah, my eyes are falling out of my head with tiredness and I can’t catch up on all the posts. I find the discussion about addiction and pornography on the previous thread verrry interesting. I’m a PhD student looking into addiction, but from a humanities /literature angle. I’ve read some fascinating stuff about how addiction is defined and how it’s been understood differently in different time periods and contexts. I have SO MANY thoughts but no capacity to type them up now and by the time I wake tomorrow the thread will have tripled in length and moved on

I hope you do share your thoughts when you have time to do so.  

[nelliebelle1197]

8 hours ago, marmalade said:

Boobchelle denied ALL family members being raided. The quote was brought to my attention earlier today, so it's fresh in my memory. ?

He's probably embarrassed to use the TTH as his address. The house itself is uninhabitable.

The Tinker Toy House is uninhabitable? No one is living in that monster? What happened? 

[Cults-r-us]

10 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I suspect when this is all said and done and the truth comes out at trial we are going to see a bigger split in the family than just Jill and Derek.  

 

Jill is correct: This is sad. Josh apparently cannot tolerate everything going well and has to sabotage himself.himself. It is not fun to read like the stripper elegies.

I am thinking of Katie Morton and the splits in the Smith family. I don't see Anna going on ans getting a life like Katie M. 

[nelliebelle1197]

8 hours ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

So, I just popped on over to Instagram to David and Priscilla Waller's account. I just saw they have limited their comments on some of their photos posted. I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the past threads (this topic is moving like wildfire and it's hard to keep up). It wouldn't surprise if people are commenting and David and Cil are deleting as many as they can. I do feel for David and Priscilla in this situation, this is affecting them as well. I hope they are supporting Anna and that their children weren't involved. 

I don’t feel for the Wallers in any situation. David worked for and actively promoted IBLP most of his life.  He is part of the problem culture that allowed Josh to hide in plain sight.

You reap what you sow. David Waller has sown some very bitter seed.

[Jess]

12 minutes ago, EmainMacha said:

Surely no judge worth their salt would bail Josh out to a younger sibling? The power balance would be totally skewed in Josh's favour. And the Duggars are gold medal winners in semantics so any howler is going to be told by Jim Bob that it's all right for Josh see his kids, for example, because * some bullshit about the way the order is worded*. No howler would ever call the authorities on Josh either.

I did wonder about Deanna, Amy's mum but I doubt she'd want to get involved with this shitshow. And JB would not be able to control her as effectively as others.

I think everyone who reads here knows it will be a terrible idea. However, the federal judge isn’t going to read up on Fundie psychology. They are just going to put whoever JB picks on the stand and ask them under oath if they are going to supervise and make sure he is following the rules. As long as the testimony is good it will work. The only thing that gives me a little comfort is they will be testifying under oath and I see them taking it more seriously as a result. 

9 minutes ago, Nike said:

I'm staggered that after the raid in 2019 the authorities did not get involved to protect the children. They knew that he had this filth and let him live with 6 children and have access to dozens more?  Wow.

Authorities do a terrible job of talking to each other. Also, these busts are usually done to get a lot of them at the same time. So, they probably took dozens of computers ect from people around the same time who were found  by the same source, then they had to review all the electronics. They probably had bigger fish who were distributing picked up who took priority. 

[Scrappinmac]

3 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

I read through the questionnaire. It was quite illuminating. Whoever volunteers to be the 3PC is volunteering to be responsible 24 x 7 for both Josh and all of his actions at the time of the custodianship. He or she would be responsible for reporting Josh if he infringes on even one of the terms of his court ordered release.

It would be a nightmare, since Josh shows no sign of taking any responsibility for his actions, past, present or future. 

What about the lawyer, or someone connected to the lawyer? They would have to abide by the rules or risk losing their license. I don't know how any family member could be trusted.