Bontragers/Bowers/Helferich 9: Oh Nos! Chelsey Married a Maxwell!

[Sops2]

I'm pretty confused about the Helferichs

We know the address of the red painted house which is up for sale

But it's a different address with the number 37891 on whitepages for the family, which is acknowledged as one of Mr H's addresses. Jeremiah is listed at that address too, as is the construction business that the family is supposed to have. Is it a brother's house now? Why did Allison and Jeremiah not live there?

The Arizona address is probably a manufactured / trailer in an as yet, undeveloped part of the town.There are .dirt roads laid out but hardly any of the small parcels of land/ lots have any houses built there yet. A new build for Mr and Mrs H? But it's hardly in one of the best bits of the town

 

 

[HereticHick]

2 hours ago, Sops2 said:

The Arizona address is probably a manufactured / trailer in an as yet, undeveloped part of the town.There are .dirt roads laid out but hardly any of the small parcels of land/ lots have any houses built there yet. A new build for Mr and Mrs H? But it's hardly in one of the best bits of the town

Are there any unmarried Helferich kids left, and did they move with ma and pa to Arizona?  If not, whose authority are they under?

2 hours ago, Sops2 said:

The Arizona address is probably a manufactured / trailer in an as yet, undeveloped part of the town.There are .dirt roads laid out but hardly any of the small parcels of land/ lots have any houses built there yet. A new build for Mr and Mrs H? But it's hardly in one of the best bits of the town

 

This seems to indicate that you are correct, its a mobile home: https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1949-E-Via-Ocotillo_Douglas_AZ_85607_M28184-42938

 

[fundiefan]

9 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Are there any unmarried Helferich kids left, and did they move with ma and pa to Arizona?  If not, whose authority are they under?

There is at least one SAHD - Susanna

 

[nvmbr02]

2 hours ago, Sops2 said:

 

The Arizona address is probably a manufactured / trailer in an as yet, undeveloped part of the town.There are .dirt roads laid out but hardly any of the small parcels of land/ lots have any houses built there yet. A new build for Mr and Mrs H? But it's hardly in one of the best bits of the town

 

 

It has been a few years since I have been to that area but I remember it being mostly undeveloped. It isn't uncommon for people in that area to have a manufactured home on an otherwise undeveloped piece of land. Not really a lot typical neighborhoods, though some of the nicer homes do have a nice yard/landscaping.  The town itself is pretty small and not a lot of jobs/industry in the area. 

My MIL and her boyfriend used to sometimes go and stay there because it is an easy spot to cross the border and hit a pharmacy. Then they started staying in Bisbee, which is about 20 miles away, since it is a little nicer so now they just cross into Naco. Or at least they did pre Covid. Both Bisbee and Douglas have some cool history, especially in regards to the mines and do get some tourists visiting for that, in addition to people border crossing. 

 

[SassyPants]

May as well have moved to MX. I am not a desert rat-

[fundiefan]

Where did they used to go on vacation ministry/missionary trips in Mexico? 

Seems they've chosen a perfect place to cross the border & harass Mexican citizens for Jesus, then drive home to the perceived safety of the US to sleep at night. Win/win for fundies unwilling to commit but still have an image to keep up. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Are there any unmarried Helferich kids left, and did they move with ma and pa to Arizona?  If not, whose authority are they under?

 

Two boys and a girl.

[anachronistic]

I just don’t understand missionaries, but I am especially confused at missionaries who go to places like Mexico. Mexico isn’t a place where many people identify as ‘none’, as is increasingly popular in the US. A quick google says that over 80% identify as Catholic.

Oh, wait, evangelical Christian fundies don’t think of Catholics as Christian, do they? Well, that explains it a bit, I guess….plus it’s quite close by depending on where you live, but still……

Its just…..it’s just RUDE, is what it is! If someone is eating pumpkin pie you don’t go up and insist that they try your lemon. They are happy with their pumpkin. It is different than your pie and that’s okay, and nobody is asking you to give up your pie. They just want to eat their own pumpkin pie in peace. Unless someone is going to eat cyanide pie leave them be. Pumpkins and Catholics (okay I have as many criticisms of the Catholic Church as I do of any fundie denomination but that’s beside the point) pumpkins and Catholics are valid choices. And so is most any other pie. I just get so angry about missionaries and I don’t know what to do so I just vent here. Leave the peoples pie alone, Helferiches! And Bontragers! And everyone else!

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, anachronistic said:

I just don’t understand missionaries, but I am especially confused at missionaries who go to places like Mexico. Mexico isn’t a place where many people identify as ‘none’, as is increasingly popular in the US. A quick google says that over 80% identify as Catholic.

Oh, wait, evangelical Christian fundies don’t think of Catholics as Christian, do they? Well, that explains it a bit, I guess….plus it’s quite close by depending on where you live, but still……

Its just…..it’s just RUDE, is what it is! If someone is eating pumpkin pie you don’t go up and insist that they try your lemon. They are happy with their pumpkin. It is different than your pie and that’s okay, and nobody is asking you to give up your pie. They just want to eat their own pumpkin pie in peace. Unless someone is going to eat cyanide pie leave them be. Pumpkins and Catholics (okay I have as many criticisms of the Catholic Church as I do of any fundie denomination but that’s beside the point) pumpkins and Catholics are valid choices. And so is most any other pie. I just get so angry about missionaries and I don’t know what to do so I just vent here. Leave the peoples pie alone, Helferiches! And Bontragers! And everyone else!

Catholics aren't the right kind of kristshun. In fact, I think most Evangelicals believe they are not kristshuns at all. It's only their beliefs that are right; it's only their god that is god; it's only them that matter. And, they will grift forever and pretend they're trying to save the world from themselves because, you know, the world isn't as smart as they are and haven't accepted their choices as their own. 

A friend of a friend - sort of; a friend of my cousin's husband, who I've never met in person because they don't live here and I've probably only met the cousin a handful of times - So, I couldn't have shortened that by saying some random dude - sent a FB Messenger message to, I'm assuming, the cousin's husband's friends list - including me...with a kristshun persecution meme about how evil heathens have taken prayer out of school and blah, blah, blah...share this to all your friends if you think prayer belongs back in our schools.

I responded - "Does that mean my Muslim neighbor's kids, who pray several time a day? Or just praying the Rosary? Is praying to  Deiu or Dios acceptable? 

I got the typical fundie response - that included exactly what I was looking for which was an epic whine about praying to GOD and GOD alone (I guess French & Spanish people can't pray then, along with the ebil Muslims) and then I was blocked. Why, thank you stranger I've never met in my life, for blocking me so I never again have to waste time on your absurd friends list mining, unsolicited bullshit. You really proved my point and bonus to me, it was in exactly the way I expected. What do ya' know, you can lead a horse to water.

Anyway, fundies only want people to convert to their values and be just like them because they are the only ones in the history of ever who know exactly who to worship and how. The only ones!

Edited June 29, 2021 by fundiefan

[HereticHick]

I think the Helferichs selling their compound is a sign that their finances aren't great.  Pa and Ma have moved to a very cheap border area and live in a trailer. If all three unmarried children are living with them, tha'ts a pretty crowded trailer.  Pa and Ma aren't even age 60 yet, so its unusual (by American standards) that they've already retired. I agree that it seems likely that they plan to cross the border continually and harass Mexicans about Jesus, even though they are 95% Christian already.

Meanwhile, at least 4 of their married children already have 3 or more children. So why are they selling these 2 homes, instead of have 2 of these families continue to live there?

And they've cut the asking price by a shocking amount--over $200,000. 

My theory is that there are some business debts to be paid off. Or Pa just wants all 11 children to get a cut of the proceeds. But if they get their current asking price, each kid is only going to get $50,000  (and less if Pa and Ma need a cut as well). That is enough for a  very good down payment, but not enough for any of them to buy or build a home.

[Sops2]

Quad  Brothers construction in Mountain Lake -turnover last year -$650,000

Part house building, but the main bit is trucking and excavating.

Is this the 4 brothers? Luke is mentioned, and Joshua too. 

Are the 3 unmarrieds Susanna, David and Stephen? This doesn't match with the Whitepages  names for Arizona either

.Still confused!

[nelliebelle1197]

On 6/28/2021 at 11:37 AM, HereticHick said:

Douglas is on the US/Mexico border, right? And the Helferich family used to do missioncations in Mexico? Or did we just know that they did annual missioncations somewhere in Latin America.

According to this June 2020 obituary of Jeremiah's maternal grandmother, the elder Helferich (Kevin and Marie) had already moved to Douglas :  https://sturmfh.com/tribute/details/6855/Constance-Suess/obituary.html

 

Maybe just to get away from MN winters?

But Arizona is burning!

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, anachronistic said:

I just don’t understand missionaries, but I am especially confused at missionaries who go to places like Mexico. Mexico isn’t a place where many people identify as ‘none’, as is increasingly popular in the US. A quick google says that over 80% identify as Catholic.

Oh, wait, evangelical Christian fundies don’t think of Catholics as Christian, do they? Well, that explains it a bit, I guess….plus it’s quite close by depending on where you live, but still……

Its just…..it’s just RUDE, is what it is! If someone is eating pumpkin pie you don’t go up and insist that they try your lemon. They are happy with their pumpkin. It is different than your pie and that’s okay, and nobody is asking you to give up your pie. They just want to eat their own pumpkin pie in peace. Unless someone is going to eat cyanide pie leave them be. Pumpkins and Catholics (okay I have as many criticisms of the Catholic Church as I do of any fundie denomination but that’s beside the point) pumpkins and Catholics are valid choices. And so is most any other pie. I just get so angry about missionaries and I don’t know what to do so I just vent here. Leave the peoples pie alone, Helferiches! And Bontragers! And everyone else!

Not to mention that the Spanish already conquered MX, CA and SA this spreading their religious beliefs. How many times do the same places and peoples  need to be reintroduced to some form of Christianity? 

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

But Arizona is burning!

And here I thought Steve pee pee Anderson had Arizona all saved up! Surly the Bontragers won't have anyone to save when they get there! 

[nelliebelle1197]

5 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

And here I thought Steve pee pee Anderson had Arizona all saved up! Surly the Bontragers won't have anyone to save when they get there! 

And hopefully they are the wrong kind of Christian for Stevie.

[Black Aliss]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:54 PM, HereticHick said:

This seems to indicate that you are correct, its a mobile home: https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1949-E-Via-Ocotillo_Douglas_AZ_85607_M28184-42938

 

That is just about the most god-forsaken place I have ever seen; this, coming from someone who has nothing against manufactured homes, and who loves the desert. I imagine all their assets are in the farm and this is what they can afford until that sells.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Black Aliss

[ElizaB]

So I know very little about taxes but bear with me on a theory. Is it possible that they plan on traveling frequently for some kind of ministry and have chosen a "home base" of Arizona for tax reasons? Perhaps they aren't really going to be living here but just using it as a home base and can save some money by making it here? 

[fundiefan]

10 hours ago, ElizaB said:

So I know very little about taxes but bear with me on a theory. Is it possible that they plan on traveling frequently for some kind of ministry and have chosen a "home base" of Arizona for tax reasons? Perhaps they aren't really going to be living here but just using it as a home base and can save some money by making it here? 

I never thought of a tax thing, but wouldn't be surprised if it played a part. I did, however, think that with the border crossing right there and their history of missioncations in Mexico that it was a very convenient home base for them to go harass people in Mexico then come home to the perceived safety of the US to sleep at night. 

I don't think anyone moves to a place like Douglas without a very specific motive, and that motive is not retirement. 

[SassyPants]

On the subject of taxes, we are in our 60s and while I am retired, my husband is still working for the medical benefits. He is slated to retire in a few months @ 65. We live in pricey CA, and have been warned by our accountant that the state IRS heavily monitors for people claiming to live in a no or low tax state, while actually still spending most of their time in their former, higher tax location. We are in Northern CA, and so many people move to Reno ( or try to claim NV residency). I’m sure for those in So Cal the haven is AZ. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:35 AM, HereticHick said:

 

My theory is that there are some business debts to be paid off. Or Pa just wants all 11 children to get a cut of the proceeds. But if they get their current asking price, each kid is only going to get $50,000  (and less if Pa and Ma need a cut as well). That is enough for a  very good down payment, but not enough for any of them to buy or build a home.

I highly doubt it. Why would any parent who is still fairly young with many years to still live sell their main asset/investment and give it all away to their kids?  

My guess is that they are selling and moving for whatever reason most people their age do (financial issues, current house too big to maintain, want to move to a better climate, want to use it as a base for missions to Mexico - ugh, etc.) and the older kids are being told they need to start adulting and find their own place to live.  

[SassyPants]

Of all the things that grown fundie adults should resent about their upbringings are the isolation and limited educational opportunities away from the home. Those 2 things alone can stunt people for a loooooooong time, and for some, forever. Those are classic tools of a cult. 

[Caroline]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:04 PM, Black Aliss said:

That is just about the most god-forsaken place I have ever seen; this, coming from someone who has nothing against manufactured homes, and who loves the desert. I imagine all their assets are in the farm and this is what they can afford until that sells.

Where is the green?  I cannot live without green, lots of green.  Even in winter we have green (pine trees).  No offense to the desert lovers, but if this is typical it just looks depressing.  I also live a few miles from the ocean.  I cannot live without big water either.  I know because i've tried.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Where is the green?  I cannot live without green, lots of green.  Even in winter we have green (pine trees).  No offense to the desert lovers, but if this is typical it just looks depressing.  I also live a few miles from the ocean.  I cannot live without big water either.  I know because i've tried.  

I’m the same. Green is my favorite color for a reason. I know I couldn’t live in the desert. But there are a lot of places I couldn’t live in the US due to weather. Here are a few places: I couldn’t live in Alaska, Florida, Arizona, Texas, Maine, North Dakota, or any place with extreme weather of any sort. So basically I like the middle parts of the US due to the weather. Although I enjoy visiting other places. Florida in winter is awesome. 

[Caroline]

I live in Southern Maine, and believe me, our winters are less and less severe.  We consistently have less snow year after year and haven't had below zero temperatures in a long while.  (Climate change is real!).  I will admit that the northern part of Maine has much more extreme weather still, and I wouldn't live there either.  People from here were moving to the mid-Atlantic states in big numbers ten years ago or so, but are now thinking it is getting too hot there.  Some are actually returning to live in southern New England.  I detest humidity, so anything south of New York is a no-go for me, although we're seeing increased humidity in the summer (to go along with the milder winters no doubt.)   A friend of mine from Philadelphia used to say that going to the Jersey shore in summer was refreshing, but now she comes all the way to Maine because it's just gotten too hot in NJ.  Crazy times!  

I have heard that Florida in winter is lovely, but summer in Maine is divine

Another major requirement for me no matter where I live is that there has to be a really strong historical presence and pride.  That comes for me anyway from having grown up in a small city that still has many reminders of it's 400 year history and from living in Europe.  

Edited July 6, 2021 by Caroline

[nvmbr02]

I think it might be because we have lived so many places that I am able to adapt pretty easily to wherever we are. Sure, there are some climates I tolerate better than others but, after a bit of time, I have always been able to find something enjoyable about where we are living. I never thought I would get used to desert living the first time we lived in the desert more than 20 years ago, but then we moved away and I missed it. Desert sunrises and sunsets are some of my favorites. And I love seeing Saguaros in bloom. But i love watching the ocean waves and seeing snow covered mountains too. We've also always managed to surround ourselves in history and the local culture everywhere we have lived and visited. Sure Japan is different from Italy which is different from New Mexico, but there is something to be learned from all three.