Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

[justmy2cents]

I think Jessa and JD don’t have an issue with the changes that Jill has made. JD seems easy going and his wife is a nurse who wears pants. Jessa hangs out with Jill more than any other sibling does.  I can see Joseph, Joy, & Anna not being as accepting. 

[Johannah]

Aren’t southern baptists known for not drinking? Did JB know DD was SBC ahead of time? Was he cool with the conversion?? I still don’t understand how DD slipped through.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I wonder if Jill and Josiah are closer than publicly portrayed. I can see him and Lauren being completely over the extreme fundie BS...and reaching out to Jill for advice.

I believe Bella’s crib was a loan from Jill, they’ve been to the Dillards’ for a couple game nights, and Lauren asked Jill to be with her during her labor.  I think it would be great if they are forging a relationship independent of the family collective.

Joy & Josiah used to be fairly close & I think they were the biggest flight risks of the older kids, which was why they were both pushed to marry so young.  It is interesting to hear that Siren are spending time with Jill & Derrick, I wonder if Joy & Austin stepping away from the show will have a similar affect on them that J&D had after they were "removed" though I doubt it would be quite as extreme. Joy wears pants occasionally, Austin's mom & sister have shorter hair than Jill does, Austin's mom works for a living, sure it is the family owned business but she's still working.  

Jana & Jessa seem to be keeping a close eye on Joy, I still think Joy & now Austin are flight risks in that they want to do what they want to do & they don't want to answer to JB or his father, they want to be in charge of their family and their life, & that is a no no in their circles.  
 

I can see Josh, Anna, Jana, Jessa (I don't think Ben cares either way) and JinJer not being OK with J&D's life choices, I can see Joe & Kendra not liking it either, but not being dicks about it and keeping their opinions to themselves. I don't think JD gives two shits what Jill & Derrick do. I don't think Joy & Austin care what Jill is doing, I think they just don't like Derrick very much, and probably in the same way they don't like Jeremy, but they don't have to deal with him much since they are so far away so he's easier to ignore. I would bet these same siblings all have an issue with how JinJer are living their left coast "liberal" life. But I'm guessing for many of the siblings it is the husbands fault because the sisters are doing what their husbands want, and that is what they were raised to do. 

Until hearing that Jill helped Laruen w/ Bella's delivery and hearing about Siren spending time w/ the Dillard's I would have said they didn't like how they did things but obviously they don't care and are most likely a little jealous of their freedom. Si is stuck he's got a wife & kid and no employable skills and no education. He can fly. big deal 

[Sheltie]

I’m still surprised how Jill turned out.  In the early years of the show I would have thought she would have been the one still single and living at home instead of Jana.

 

[viii]

1 hour ago, purple_summer said:

She has to lean into the legalism because hope of eternal reward is all she really has. 

oof. This hurts but it sums Anna up perfectly. 

[theotherelise]

It can be nice to imagine that different families or 2nd gen adults are making secret decisions behind the scenes which would indicate they are distancing from the quiverful, fundamentalist beliefs. But there is no indication of that. JinJer has switched to fundamentalist calvinism and thus would likely have some different convictions based on that, but the rest of the single adults and couples are all still attending the same churches (I believe) and have made zero moves from that belief system.

Taking Jill's comments at face value, my opinion is that some siblings have tried to call Jill out for her choices or the way she behaves towards their parents. Other siblings have probably not brought it up or left it at an agree to disagree on X situation while still spending time with Jill. I'm just not sure that would always correlate to how steeped a sibling is in the beliefs.

For example, I believe Joe and Kendra are ridiculously steeped in the koolaid. But they also seem to be a little less aggressive in trying to convert people and are just overall pretty genial. I could see them being friendly and not bringing up any potential disagreement, but that doesn't mean they're at all walking away from their own beliefs. 

[Not that josh's mom]

I think Josh is probably jealous of Jill and Derrick. Not Anna, but definitely Josh.  Law school, only two kids! Perfect in his mind. 

[Idlewild]

I think Joe and Jana are likely to be the most against - they always struck me as the most ingrained in the IBLP beliefs. Anna probably is because it’s rebelling against Lolly & Pop and making people question whether the whole Josh debacle and thus reminding people she’s married to a turd.

Jessa, Jinger and Josiah I reckon don’t actually care about the changes Jill has made but would care if it threatened the Duggar gravy train which funds their lifestyles.

[Maggie Mae]

12 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I think Josh is probably jealous of Jill and Derrick. Not Anna, but definitely Josh.  Law school, only two kids! Perfect in his mind. 

Josh doesn't seem like someone who is self-aware enough to know that this is the reason he doesn't like Derrick.  

[lexiloumarie]

29 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

It can be nice to imagine that different families or 2nd gen adults are making secret decisions behind the scenes which would indicate they are distancing from the quiverful, fundamentalist beliefs. But there is no indication of that. JinJer has switched to fundamentalist calvinism and thus would likely have some different convictions based on that, but the rest of the single adults and couples are all still attending the same churches (I believe) and have made zero moves from that belief system.

Taking Jill's comments at face value, my opinion is that some siblings have tried to call Jill out for her choices or the way she behaves towards their parents. Other siblings have probably not brought it up or left it at an agree to disagree on X situation while still spending time with Jill. I'm just not sure that would always correlate to how steeped a sibling is in the beliefs.

For example, I believe Joe and Kendra are ridiculously steeped in the koolaid. But they also seem to be a little less aggressive in trying to convert people and are just overall pretty genial. I could see them being friendly and not bringing up any potential disagreement, but that doesn't mean they're at all walking away from their own beliefs. 

See Joe was the one who Austin/Joy called out at his wedding rehearsal for his outspoken convictions and his pushing those around him to be faithful.  Obviously Josh and Anna are fully integrated still. Jessa and Ben depend on the gravy train. All the kidults at home are under the Jim Bob umbrella still. 

JinJer hang out with Jeremy's friends who don't behave much differently than Jill and Derek. Abbie wears pants and JD doesn't seem too uptight. Dish and Lauren seem to fit so we'll because neither are perfect cookie cutter fundies and they apparently were close to Jill and Derek while all of this was starting. 

Joy seems to have wanted to take the path Jill is ("I'm not meant for dresses"), but they don't visibly interact anymore which surprised me until I realized in a way she's like Anna. She doubled down into the fundamentalism instead of breaking away. She doesn't seem close to Jill or Amy anymore, and they could be a good resource if she doesn't want to follow blindly. 

 

[Melissa1977]

24 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Josh doesn't seem like someone who is self-aware enough to know that this is the reason he doesn't like Derrick.  

Josh has always been very clear about the number of kids he wanted. One or two. He said it several times before/after marrying. Then he always added that God decides, children are blessings blah blah, but was evident he wished God to send him the fewer children as possible.

I'm sure he is envious of Jill, or envious of Derick. 

[Angelface]

6 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Josh has always been very clear about the number of kids he wanted. One or two. He said it several times before/after marrying. Then he always added that God decides, children are blessings blah blah, but was evident he wished God to send him the fewer children as possible.

I'm sure he is envious of Jill, or envious of Derick. 

Josh has options. I’m pretty sure that more kids was a means of placating Anna after the scandals. Anna never made any secret about her desire for a large family but, probably from Josh’s point of view, six is no doubt enough. He could use birth control or have a vasectomy. If he ever opted for the latter I don’t think he’d involve Anna in the decision, I suspect it might be something undertaken in secret. He could also pursue further education, possibly online. If he really wanted to be financially independent of Jim Bob, it could be done BUT (and here’s the rub) it would require hard work, determination, resolve and effort over a sustained period of time. Is Josh willing to put in the work?

[Giraffe]

My assumption with Josh is he goes along with whatever he thinks is easiest. He doesn’t strike me as really believing any of it but he’s too lazy to make any changes. If Anna started questioning and moving away from fundamentalism Josh would probably happily follow. 

[AprilQuilt]

I think Jill's filler words and vagueness are definitely to do with her nervousness. A totally confident person would I think be able to articulate specifically how they came to certain decisions or realisation. She says she thinks - no, she KNOWS - what the first time she wore pants in public was, but doesn't then enlarge on it. It was clearly a big deal for her and there is probably a great little story there about how it felt for her, and what changed afterwards. But she isn't really able to articulate it, she falls back into a blur of generalities.

That's ok, she doesn't have to spill her whole story. But I think while she's done the work she still struggles to express certain things, and not because her upbringing hasn't given her the coherency to do that (Jessa, for example, is really good at narrating little episodes of family life), but because it's scary for her. I actually really appreciate that these Q&As aren't slick and polished, that she is still fumbling through and probably still nervous about the response. Even the social media side of this must be exhausting, especially for a people pleaser.

Anyway, good for Jill. I am glad she is attempting to live with integrity, even though it may not be the life I would choose.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

Josh doesn't seem like someone who is self-aware enough to know that this is the reason he doesn't like Derrick.  

We haven’t seen Josh in years and we have no idea whether he likes Derick. Since Derick seems like someone who often irritates others (as does Jill), it’s entirely possible that Josh doesn’t like him. It’s also very likely that Derick dislikes Josh for excellent reasons, and therefore wasn’t friendly to him. Most likely they avoid each other. Anyway, Josh would have heard what the Dillards are up to, and he’s likely jealous of their situation (financially independent, only two kids, law school).

I thought it was interesting that one reason why Jill started wearing pants after leaving the show was that she wouldn’t be “not interrogated, but...”

OMG, quit saying “like”! How did someone from small-town Arkansas turn out sounding like a valley girl?

Edited September 23, 2020 by QuiverFullofBooks
Watched the video

[Tangy Bee]

5 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I wonder if Jill and Josiah are closer than publicly portrayed. I can see him and Lauren being completely over the extreme fundie BS...and reaching out to Jill for advice.

I believe Bella’s crib was a loan from Jill, they’ve been to the Dillards’ for a couple game nights, and Lauren asked Jill to be with her during her labor.  I think it would be great if they are forging a relationship independent of the family collective.

Josiah was one of Jill's buddies. So he might be closer to Jill than Michelle. According to her siblings, Jill use to be the most strict of all about following the rules. Even heard she was a snitch. So I can see some of her siblings giving her the side eye at the moment. Not surprised Jessa hasn't changed. She was always the little smart mouth when trying to defend her family's weirdness when she was a kid.

[Markie]

I think the most judgemental siblings are: Jana (very supportive of their parents and religion), Jessa - for about being vocal against their parents, not Jill’s clothing or nose ring, Jinger for hurting their mom’s feelings (seems like a mama’s girl), Joseph for leaving their church, Jedediah because I think he’s very right wing. Those who don’t care are JD, Joy, Josiah, Jeremiah. I don’t think (I Hope) Jill and Derick have much to do with Josh but as others have said, I bet Josh is envious and Anna is scornful about the Dillard’s. I hope the younger ones are quietly considering their options. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Markie

[indianabones]

4 hours ago, Sheltie said:

I’m still surprised how Jill turned out.  In the early years of the show I would have thought she would have been the one still single and living at home instead of Jana.

 

If you read prediction posts on FJ from a decade ago, everyone thought that. It was so obvious that she was the favorite daughter.

Jim Bob must be so pissed. ?

Edited September 23, 2020 by indianabones
FB ≠ FJ! Dumb autocorrect...

[Johannah]

I think once DD is employed and Sam is in kindergarten (so, fall of 2022), Jill is going to go to school herself, likely to become an RN/midwife. Once she finishes I think they may have more children. But maybe not. I wonder if they will ever leave Christianity altogether...

Do we know if Derick’s mom does/did work outside the home?

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, Tangy Bee said:

Josiah was one of Jill's buddies. So he might be closer to Jill than Michelle. According to her siblings, Jill use to be the most strict of all about following the rules. Even heard she was a snitch. So I can see some of her siblings giving her the side eye at the moment. Not surprised Jessa hasn't changed. She was always the little smart mouth when trying to defend her family's weirdness when she was a kid.

No, he was with either Josh or John David.  Jill's team was Joy, James, and Jennifer

[Johannah]

I thought only girls headed up buddy teams?

[Natalie22]

They typically did, but I think early on Joseph and Josiah were paired with Josh and JD.  Remember Jill was 6 when the buddy system started.  Jessa and Jinger were only 5 and 4, so probably too little to have as the child solely responsible for a 3 year old and a 1 or 2 year old.  

[justmy2cents]

34 minutes ago, Johannah said:

Do we know if Derick’s mom does/did work outside the home?

Cathy worked at Walmart, corporate office. Not sure if she still does.

[Daisy0322]

I think jessa is a little jealous of jills freedom but she’s also soaking in art mommy and daddy’s positive attention she never got as a child. Other than that I really just think Jana has a strong opinion about jills waywardness and Joe/Kendra probably just keep their distance you know the whole wild in sheep’s clothing deal. I think the rest probably are super concerned. I think Siren will follow to a certain extent and I think Joy and Austin have truly made their own rules and are an independent family even if we disagree with some of their choices. 

[purple_summer]

4 hours ago, Angelface said:

Josh has options. I’m pretty sure that more kids was a means of placating Anna after the scandals. Anna never made any secret about her desire for a large family but, probably from Josh’s point of view, six is no doubt enough. He could use birth control or have a vasectomy. If he ever opted for the latter I don’t think he’d involve Anna in the decision, I suspect it might be something undertaken in secret. He could also pursue further education, possibly online. If he really wanted to be financially independent of Jim Bob, it could be done BUT (and here’s the rub) it would require hard work, determination, resolve and effort over a sustained period of time. Is Josh willing to put in the work?

I think it would be fairly easy for the average man, but Josh probably has some additional obstacles. If he has a smartphone, covenant eyes is probably installed. Ditto for any computers he has access to. A search for "urologist" would probably ping the filter at the bare minimum. Then there's actually getting to the appointment. I'm sure they use "find my friends" (or similar) to make sure everyone is where they're supposed to be. Hell, they could just put a tracking device in his car. Copay=paper trail on bank statements. Or if they do the envelope strategy; again he'd have to account for the missing money. He can't exactly go away on a business trip and come back "fixed". 
It's much easier to break free when your spouse is on board. If they're truly living in the warehouse behind the TTH, I don't know how he could really do anything "privately". 

 

ETA: not really sympathy from me, just FYI.

Edited September 24, 2020 by purple_summer
I'm insecure ok