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samurai_sarah

Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

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Maggie Mae
50 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Of course I don’t condone the victims being outed. But I’m looking for a long term upside to it. 

I think that Jill was truthful when she said the media coverage was traumatizing. How could it not be? Even though she never received professional help to process what happened to her, having that come up again had to hurt. And then to be pressured to talk about it on TV for nothing in return? How could anyone not be upset and retraumatized? 

All of these changes she's making are, imo, related to the sum of everything she's been though. Shitty childhood, raising brothers and sisters, no school, no school sports or drama or band or orchestra. Just childcare, lines for the bathroom, and then filming. Trying to please everyone all the time. 

So yeah, I think it played not a small role in her awakening. 

I hope eventually Derrick and Jill can educate themselves on biology and sex differentiation, and understand that gender is not so cut and dry, and then apologize for bullying Jazz. But that's probably quite a long way away. 

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Kayleigh83
3 hours ago, farmerannie said:

I will get a lot of hate from you guys for saying this but I grew up very conservative almost fundie. It took a very long time for me to break free of the hate and the beliefs. The small steps to matter. Those are the small moments of breaking free. If everyone thinks that you are incapable of changes you will never change, and the change is hard and soul sucking. It breaks every last piece of you until there is nothing left. Give them a chance and try not being as judgemental as you think they are. 

This! We need to remember when we’re discussing Jill (and others) that we aren’t just discussing characters that exist for our entertainment. Believing in signs of change that seem pretty clear, and hoping that they continue, is not the same thing as leg humping. These are actual people we’re talking about. The fact that the opinion of most people who have come from backgrounds similar to Jill is that these are much bigger signs than those in the mainstream world may think, says a lot to me.

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Melissa1977
1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Yeah fuck that. Hell it is. This chubby don’t like stairs anyway, I’ll take the highway... 

I’m curious, and have been thinking. Do people think that the scandals of the molestation and Ashley Madison breaking actually in someway helped free Jill?  Shake off the secrets and address them. Be able to see things in a light outside of her family’s bubble of “forgiveness”. 
Of course I don’t condone the victims being outed. But I’m looking for a long term upside to it. 

I get your point, but the whole world knowing you were abused never helps. One thing is that a victim chooses to share information, and a very different one is that the information leaks. Jill and the other victims surely lost a lot of confidence due to being outed. Also it's not that they were assaulted on the street, it was a brother, ugh. 

It's like when people say that, if you overcome an abuse, you get stronger, so the abuse made you better. No, never, ever. That kind of ideas make the abuse indirectly good and it's a very dangerous thought.

 

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just_ordinary
12 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Quick question: do you mean tap water? I’m frantically googling tab water to figure out if it’s some new brand (a la smart water, life water, etc) that I don’t know about? 

Indeed I do. I fear I might have messed up my phones language recognition and auto correct by using the German and English keyboard interchangeably for both languages. It brings up the most ridiculous things and texts and I don’t catch it sometimes even if I proof read.

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louisa05
8 hours ago, Beyganengvall said:

Umm...I hope you’re exaggerating, because that’s really not cool. How is that any different from a parent who is “bothered” by their child being trans?

I don’t think it’s cool at all. And I didn’t say it was. But there it is. It’s a 180 degree turn from what they used to believe. I think it comes from living in the evangelical culture that creates superstars and validates people based on external things. This couple were in a cult like church for several years.  Their homeschooled kids, one adopted from a foreign country and thus “saved” by them gave them lots of points in that world. I suspect on her mind a trans or non-binary kid would give her points and importance and validate her change in beliefs.  She told me that around six years ago. I hope she’s moved beyond it. We rarely talk now as she moved and became so rigidly left wing she’s difficult—in all the time I knew her prior she was working her way out of her parents’s fundamentalism including their years in the cultish church  which was a departure theology and practice wise. They grew up in a world without nuance, so their new belief system lacks it too. And there are issues about money that preclude a balanced friendship. 
 

 

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purple_summer
11 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

How is that even a thing that needs to be worried about in the United States? Are there groups of bandits wandering around, torturing people with the intent to get them to change their religious beliefs?

 

This was brought up during a discussion about martyrs. We watched some video with stories they claimed were from China/NK etc. hanging people, steamrolling them, throwing molten metal on them etc. all wrapped up in a “this could happen here if we’re not careful” bow. 
There was also an object lesson at a different church that involved masked “terrorists” bursting into the sanctuary, firing their (cap) guns (fake assault rifles actually), and dragging the pastor off stage while he screamed “keep the faith”. I need these people to pay my therapy bills.  

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Lemchop

Re: Derick was wanting to serve underrepresented populations and help provide equal access to justice. Maybe this is naive, but I would find that an extremely odd and insidious way to phrase being an anti-abortion lawyer, unless he is explicitly trying to manipulate people’s perception of him and gain favor with the liberal/pro choice crowd (weird decision if he wants to work with conservative lawmakers in the future).

Derick is in his final year of law school; he knows what public interest work is, he knows what saying “underrepresented” means. If he planned to use his career to advance conservative causes like restricting LGBTQ rights and abortion access, I think he would have said “I want to spread Christian values and God’s will” or some bullshit like that.

Derick has espoused absolutely horrid views and values in the past, and I fully expected him to use his law degree to be an actually-qualified version of J*sh. But the Q&A has potentially convinced me otherwise, and I am willing to consider that his higher education and exposure to intelligent and compassionate professors/classmates have at least somewhat impacted his beliefs (or at least his professional goals).

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Melissa1977
21 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

This was brought up during a discussion about martyrs. We watched some video with stories they claimed were from China/NK etc. hanging people, steamrolling them, throwing molten metal on them etc. all wrapped up in a “this could happen here if we’re not careful” bow. 
There was also an object lesson at a different church that involved masked “terrorists” bursting into the sanctuary, firing their (cap) guns (fake assault rifles actually), and dragging the pastor off stage while he screamed “keep the faith”. I need these people to pay my therapy bills.  

It's so hypocrite! Christians have threatened people to leave their religions, too. It happened in my country centuries ago: Jews, Muslims had to become Christians or leave the country (or worse!). I suppose that, according fundamentalists, they should have remained in their religion and be punished, to respect their God? Were Christians terrorists then? What about the native American people, forced to kiss cross? Was it right for fundies?

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purple_summer
1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's so hypocrite! Christians have threatened people to leave their religions, too. It happened in my country centuries ago: Jews, Muslims had to become Christians or leave the country (or worse!). I suppose that, according fundamentalists, they should have remained in their religion and be punished, to respect their God? Were Christians terrorists then? What about the native American people, forced to kiss cross? Was it right for fundies?

It was definitely challenging being a black girl in these very white spaces, and assimilation was definitely the end goal. In terms of people from other religions being forcibly converted, any adherence their existing belief system is seen as rejecting God. Lots of stories about people seeing visions of a God being more powerful than their indigenous “God” (I know not all belief systems have a deity and some are polytheistic) or of them being generally guided by the Holy Spirit so being presented with “evidence” of the superiority of the Christian God and choosing not to convert was damnable. 

I promise y’all they don’t give two shits about Native Americans. It’s not discussed beyond the thanksgiving tropes. 
 

Example clips

 

Edited by purple_summer

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subsaharanafrica
On 9/19/2020 at 12:28 AM, EmainMacha said:

Well Michelle did take time out after giving birth to Josie to protest a local shop wanting a liquor licence. She wanted to keep their town free from alcohol sales.

Imagine knowing that your mum was so anti-alcohol that she left her micro premie in order to protest it even being available in her town. A pina colada must be a huge step for Jill.

Oh Lord. This reminds me of the time the pub up the road from my parents’ house wanted a liquor license for Sundays. For some reason this was on the ballot. I was still registered to vote at my parents house and my mom was quite vocal in her opposition to the liquor license being extended. Whelp, let’s just say our votes cancelled each other out. 

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subsaharanafrica
23 hours ago, Italiangirl said:

This is Derick last year right? And then? I mean he could take the exam just after the last day of school? Like here for high school (I don't know if this is a thing in the Us sorry) or he has to wait for a national date? And after that when does he know the results? I guess that if you pass it with a good vote and have gone to a good school then you could start working immediately, so he has kinda set date for when he will start working right? 

 No matter what state you’re in, there are only two times a year the bar exam is offered—once in July and once in February. It’s over a three day period with the national portion of the test being the middle day. The state portion of the test is either the first or third day or both (if they’re mascochists—I’m looking at you Ohio and Texas). 
 

It takes a couple months to get the results. I sat for the bar in July, found out I passed in late August or early September, and was admitted in November. 
 

No one is ready to sit for the bar exam upon graduating from law school though. For the most part you don’t learn the content you actually need in law school, and certainly not in the last two years (again, with the exception of state specific trust and estate stuff if you took that class and if you went to law school in the state whose bar you’re sitting for and if said state actually tests on that. You learn what you need to know for the bar in the two months between graduating and taking the test. Bar review is two months of 8-10 hour days. 

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nausicaa
55 minutes ago, subsaharanafrica said:

No one is ready to sit for the bar exam upon graduating from law school though. For the most part you don’t learn the content you actually need in law school, and certainly not in the last two years (again, with the exception of state specific trust and estate stuff if you took that class and if you went to law school in the state whose bar you’re sitting for and if said state actually tests on that. You learn what you need to know for the bar in the two months between graduating and taking the test. Bar review is two months of 8-10 hour days. 

Do many people choose the February test so they have more time to study between graduation and the exam?

What is law school generally covering in its courses if it's not prepping students for the bar?

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subsaharanafrica
43 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Do many people choose the February test so they have more time to study between graduation and the exam?

What is law school generally covering in its courses if it's not prepping students for the bar?

The Feb exam is for people who graduate in December and people who fail the July exam. ETA: Or are taking a second bar exam for a different state.

 

Half of the subjects you might be tested on for the national portion of the exam are the classes you are required to take your first year of law school—contracts, criminal law, constitutional law, contracts, civil procedure, torts, and property  After your first year you choose your own classes so the other half might never take the rest of them. Those you do take you won’t have thought about in two years by the time you sit for the bar. 
 

Of those listed, some are pretty much made up law on a national level. For example, there isn’t really any such thing as US real property law. If an issue arises stemming from real property the law that will apply is the state law for wherever the property is. 
 

For the state portion, a decent number of people don’t go to law school in the state whose bar exam they plan to take. Harvard doesn’t teach NY law even though a large percentage of its graduates will sit for the NY bar  

 

 

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Shouldabeenacowboy

I think it's great that they did the Q&A, and seemed honest. Part of me always gives them the benefit of the doubt, however, maybe some fundie watches their video, sees that it is possible, and finds the strength to break free from the cult. 

I think that, for a lot of people in these cults, it's hard to break free because of the fear that's been instilled in them - losing their families, what they know, financial support, etc. Seeing someone else that came from a similar cult, is living a "normal" life (public school, a drink here and there, etc.) finds it totally OK, and is honest about it, may be the push they need. 

A few years ago, I watched a documentary about an organization that helps former ultra-orthodox Jewish people who want to break free from those communities. I remember one of the people from the organization saying that a lot of people in "recovery" were comforted by the fact that many of the volunteers came from ultra-orthodox Jewish communities themselves, understood the issues, and they could identify. I also remember them saying that they felt like immigrants in their own home - they had to learn everything, sometimes even the language, because they grew up speaking English only sporadically, and living a totally different life than most "mainstream" Americans. Fascinating (the work of these volunteers obviously, not these cults!!!). 

Edited by Shouldabeenacowboy

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OrchidBlossom
9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Indeed I do. I fear I might have messed up my phones language recognition and auto correct by using the German and English keyboard interchangeably for both languages. It brings up the most ridiculous things and texts and I don’t catch it sometimes even if I proof read.

No shame/judgment from me! I just get confused with brand names a lot so I wanted to make sure I wasn’t once again outside the zeitgeist. 

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marshmallow
9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Indeed I do. I fear I might have messed up my phones language recognition and auto correct by using the German and English keyboard interchangeably for both languages. It brings up the most ridiculous things and texts and I don’t catch it sometimes even if I proof read.

Ahhhh .. I wasn't aware you were supposed to switch keyboards to prompt the software to adjust language recognition 🤯. That explains soon many weird autocorrect things that have happened to me. 

Ok, I just realized I typed this post with my keyboard set to Norwegian 😅😂

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mpheels

would work for/with Christian non-profit or mission-based groups fall under the umbrella of public interest law?  I can see Derick working with a faith based organization to support Christian refugees or adoptive families or some other group deemed worthy but uncontroversial. 

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Beyganengvall
14 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I don’t think it’s cool at all. And I didn’t say it was. But there it is. It’s a 180 degree turn from what they used to believe. I think it comes from living in the evangelical culture that creates superstars and validates people based on external things. This couple were in a cult like church for several years.  Their homeschooled kids, one adopted from a foreign country and thus “saved” by them gave them lots of points in that world. I suspect on her mind a trans or non-binary kid would give her points and importance and validate her change in beliefs.  She told me that around six years ago. I hope she’s moved beyond it. We rarely talk now as she moved and became so rigidly left wing she’s difficult—in all the time I knew her prior she was working her way out of her parents’s fundamentalism including their years in the cultish church  which was a departure theology and practice wise. They grew up in a world without nuance, so their new belief system lacks it too. And there are issues about money that preclude a balanced friendship. 
 

 

Ah, I see. Your analysis makes sense, and it sounds like maybe she is prone to extremism in general.

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subsaharanafrica
4 hours ago, mpheels said:

would work for/with Christian non-profit or mission-based groups fall under the umbrella of public interest law?  I can see Derick working with a faith based organization to support Christian refugees or adoptive families or some other group deemed worthy but uncontroversial. 

Yes. Public interest usually just means you’re not getting paid much if anything for what you’re doing because the people you’re doing it for are broke. The public interest clinic at my old law school basically helped people with things like evictions and domestic law—everyday areas where people come into contact with the legal system and might have a very winnable case but will lose because they don’t have the cash to press their claim in court or otherwise defend themselves. 

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just_ordinary
14 hours ago, marshmallow said:

Ahhhh .. I wasn't aware you were supposed to switch keyboards to prompt the software to adjust language recognition 🤯. That explains soon many weird autocorrect things that have happened to me. 

Ok, I just realized I typed this post with my keyboard set to Norwegian 😅😂

There definitely seems to be a short term learning algorithm of some sorts. You often get word suggestions that include words you use a lot at the moment. And normally only in the language of the keyboard. But it realised I am using English while still being on the German one and now all my suggestions are English and if I switch back to German writing it will auto correct and suggest English for quite some time and vice versa.

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marshmallow
10 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

There definitely seems to be a short term learning algorithm of some sorts. You often get word suggestions that include words you use a lot at the moment. And normally only in the language of the keyboard. But it realised I am using English while still being on the German one and now all my suggestions are English and if I switch back to German writing it will auto correct and suggest English for quite some time and vice versa.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. As a general rule, I just keep my keyboard in Norwegian because then I have all the extra characters available (ø, æ, å) for when I'm writing something in Norwegian, but it usually recognizes just fine when I type in English. So until now I thought switching between keyboards was only a matter of choosing which 'character set' you want to have available. Though now I'm thinking it may also improve language recognition even though that also seems to somehow work 'across keyboards'. 

Anyways... You always learn something new. 

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nolongerIFBx
On 9/20/2020 at 6:48 PM, louisa05 said:

Yep. “Imagine if you were at that (bar, restaurant, party, etc...) and decided one drink of alcohol was okay and you walked out the door and...”.  
 

My personal favorite was the fresh grape juice sermon at Christian school chapel. Jesus changed the water into fresh grape juice and Jews in his time loved really fresh grape juice which is why it kept the party going.  We would all really love really fresh grape juice too if we had it.  It’s the best thing ever.  And saying it was actually wine “mocks God” as does drinking wine or any alcohol. God mockers are immediately punished (perhaps you’ll be hit by a bus when you leave the restaurant where you had the alcohol).  
I once shared this one with an old Irish Catholic priest who was a close family friend. I never heard a priest laugh so hard.  

Okay- my favorite was when someone was preaching about the woman at the well and how Jesus said, "If you drink from this Well (meaning Himself), you'll never thirst again." So the whole message, the preacher kept yelling, "Drink, Drink." The irony was, he was preaching at the Pacific Garden Mission in Chicago to people of whom a large percentage (with all my sympathies) were quite likely to be homeless due to alcohol (their own alcoholism or someone else's). I'm not sure it was the best audience for the message! "Drink, Drink!"

 

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OrchidBlossom
13 hours ago, subsaharanafrica said:

Yes. Public interest usually just means you’re not getting paid much if anything for what you’re doing because the people you’re doing it for are broke. The public interest clinic at my old law school basically helped people with things like evictions and domestic law—everyday areas where people come into contact with the legal system and might have a very winnable case but will lose because they don’t have the cash to press their claim in court or otherwise defend themselves. 

As a public interest attorney that isn't how I would define the area of law at all... it doesn't "just mean" you don't get paid (and I do, by the way) but rather that we focus on areas of law which disproportionately affect underrepresented communities and/or litigate on matters related to the public good.

Though, yes, some Christian nonprofits could passably be considered public interest, many wouldn't. 

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Kelsey

Maybe he wants to help (Christian) women and children immigrate to the USA?

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Satan'sFortress

If Jill were here to do a FJ AMA, what one question would you most want to ask her?

I would ask something like: 'Since you've been married and out on your own, doing things a little differently than your family did growing up, what are some of the biggest surprises you've learned about the world outside of that lifestyle?"

(or, in other words--"Since you have broken free from the total domination of your family cult, what are some of the things they told you about the evil outside world that you have since discovered to be untrue?")

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