Dillards 86: It's a Long Way to Tipperary

[Letgo]

19 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Are there people in the Duggar/Dillard extended families with alcohol issues?

I checked and found an old thread about the book the older girls wrote. They said JB's father was an alcoholic. Not sure what the term alcoholic would mean in their circle, though. If Grandpa Jimmy really did have a problem with alcohol I can see why JB would steer clear of it and prohibit it for his family.

 

[AussieKrissy]

9 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I mean, that is the only reasonable reaction. Even I thought it was a bridge too far, and I was a keen consumer of Bacardi Breezers back in the day. 

Oh my god 2 buck chuck aka spumanti (spew manti) and passion pop were our cheap high school drinks. I am in the age bracket where they were about 4 bucks a bottle, but older than me remember them at 2 and 1 dollar a pop. I nearly fell of my feet in the bottlo a few years back when passion pop was about 20 bucks. I have a capped front tooth courtesy of a passion pop bottle accident. We were closely followed in popular by a goon bag of peach cooler.  

[Pleiades_06]

59 minutes ago, Letgo said:

I checked and found an old thread about the book the older girls wrote. They said JB's father was an alcoholic. Not sure what the term alcoholic would mean in their circle, though. If Grandpa Jimmy really did have a problem with alcohol I can see why JB would steer clear of it and prohibit it for his family.

 

Thanks! I thought I had seen that somewhere. If there are/were alcoholics in the family, that makes me look at the whole thing differently. Sometimes the childhood adults of alcoholics need to reject all alcohol to protect themselves.

On the OTHER hand, how fundies define alcoholic could be really different from the medical definition.

[Not that josh's mom]

Boone's Farm wine?   Cherry Mist? Rum and coke? Muscatell?

Anyone that old?

 

[AprilQuilt]

32 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Oh my god 2 buck chuck aka spumanti (spew manti) and passion pop were our cheap high school drinks. I am in the age bracket where they were about 4 bucks a bottle, but older than me remember them at 2 and 1 dollar a pop. I nearly fell of my feet in the bottlo a few years back when passion pop was about 20 bucks. I have a capped front tooth courtesy of a passion pop bottle accident. We were closely followed in popular by a goon bag of peach cooler.  

Honestly I've never read a more Australian paragraph!

What I'd like to know is, why is a 3 litre bottle of White Lightning (another concerningly cheap alcohol they've pulled from the market since my student days) just the absolute WORST, but on my university residential trip to Venice the gigantic plastic bottles of prosecco we bought each night for about 3 euro were wonderful and romantic?

[Daisy0322]

19 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Boone's Farm wine?   Cherry Mist? Rum and coke? Muscatell?

Anyone that old?

 

Ahhh Boone’s farm ... good times ? (I’m 28) we use to steal it in high school 

[Maggie Mae]

I vaguely remember a rumor on TWOP about Jim-Bob and Josh going to strip clubs and drinking beers. So my guesses: 

Jim-Bob & Michelle - social drinking for JB, but pretty secretive about it. Michelle might sip a champagne at a baby-shower and pretend she didn't know it was alcoholic. 

Josh - drinks when he's awake, those big gulp plastic cups are not just coke. 

Anna - no drinking, always pregnant or trying to be, and it gives her something to hold over everyone else. 

JB - craft beers at the pilot bars. None for Abbie right now, but when she's not pregnant or breastfeeding, she might have one and make a face. Later she'll experiment with wine mom culture but she's just not into it. No judgment though. 

Jana: no way jose

Jill & Derrick we know, but I don't see them ever both getting beyond slightly buzzed at the same time, due to having actual feelings of responsibility toward their children. Maybe in, like, 6 years things will line up, they will have a babysitter or be on vacation and they will both have a couple of too strong frozen drinks in Hawaii or Florida and spend the night reminicing and laughing, and the morning sick with headaches. 

Jessa & Ben. Ben probably drinks craft brews when out and smokes weed in the basement, Jessa pretends she doesn't know. 

JInger/Jer: pretends he only drinks when it's necessary for networking purposes, yet has a collection of aged scotches and wines that he discusses at length. Jinger giggles and doesn't like the taste. She's pregnant, so she's not drinking. She might have a sip if she's neither pregnant or breastfeeding, but Jer told her it makes women gain weight. Maybe in a few years she'll start having wine mom lunches in California which will never been seen on the internet. I can see her getting a prescription in the future for whatever replaces Xanax. Jer will start staying out later, Felicity will smoke weed in high school with her friends but neither parent will notice her slow slide into rebellion. 

The rest I don't know at all. 

 

 

[LillyP]

I gotta say, I'm impressed with the progress Jill & Derick are making. I know plenty of people like to really focus on the fact that at the core they still have hateful beliefs, but I think it's important to remember that people CAN progress in their thinking - and this at least shows they are moving in a good direction. They're obviously taking counseling/therapy seriously and actually critically thinking and talking about important issues - and making decisions for their family based on what they want not what others think while also reevaluating what they believe. When you grow up in such an all-consuming religion/cult like Jill it is VERY VERY hard to rewire your brain to think differently. Those are opinions and values you don't just drop over night because you experience a little of the real world. Will they likely always be conservative Christians? I'm sure. But plenty of people are conservative Christians aren't hateful, but rather practice their religion through showing kindness and compassion to others. I don't think we're gonna see J&D put a pride flag in their front yard any time soon, but you absolutely never know what will happen down the road. I mean did we ever really think we'd see Jill drinking in public and giving interviews to People Magazine about alcohol consumption? I sure as hell didn't!

I'm still holding out faith that her close relationship with cousin Amy, Derick potentially getting a job with regular people, and making friends through Israel at school will show them there are good people off all kinds that make the world go round.

Edited September 18, 2020 by LillyP

[SassyPants]

I wish I could get a better understanding of  Jeremy’s background. He’s Italian with former Catholic roots in his family. Is his mother also Italian? Isn’t  his dad a Pastor? Do you go from Catholicism to a becoming an Evangelical preacher?Maybe Catholicism was on his mom’s side? 

Then there’s his school history. Homeschool, Public high school, a university or 2, where he had some issues with drunkenness and an arrest.

Next it was off to Finland for a minor soccer gig, and finally to Laredo for a fake preacher job.
 

Lastly meeting and marrying Jing Dugg.
 

Lots of moving around, and changing course along the way.
 

He’s definitely a quandary for me.

[metheglyn]

Wasn't there a TH at some point about some of the older kids actually accidentally drinking alcohol at an event and not liking it? Some of that may have been a storyline to promote non-drinking, but it may also have been true, especially since a taste for alcohol often has to be deliberately cultivated, and not everyone chooses to do so.

Essentially, beliefs aside, even if they aren't morally opposed to drinking that doesn't necessarily mean they *want* to drink. I do have anti-drinking extended family members, but my own parents were the wine at dinner, margaritas for socializing kinds of drinkers, etc., yet I rarely drink at all.

I simply don't like the taste of wine, beer, or many straight liquors, instead my tastes lean towards drinks like Bailey's, Kahlua, piña coladas, fuzzy navels, and other liqueurs or mixed drinks of that sort that aren't really mealtime drinks. Therefore, when I go out with others who are drinking at dinner I rarely do so myself, so might come off as disapproving, but I'm simply not interested in drinking any of the dinner drinks. The difference is that I don't have a problem with others drinking (as long as they aren't getting drunk and expecting me to take care of them), rather than preaching about the "evils of alcohol." It's when you become either preachy, or especially a hypocrite, about drinking that I really see room to criticize.

[Perrierwithlemon]

I like to share this clip every time it's somewhat relevant. I even based my username and location on this clip. Please watch it. It's hilarious.

Spoiler

 

 

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, Perrierwithlemon said:

I like to share this clip every time it's somewhat relevant. I even based my username and location on this clip. Please watch it. It's hilarious.

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Aw, maybe it’s because I’m on my second rum and coke, but I think this is adorable. But It was really funny how Austin was saying he missed the chaperones, while Joy is basically eye f* ing him. ?

[LacyMay]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

Essentially, beliefs aside, even if they aren't morally opposed to drinking that doesn't necessarily mean they *want* to drink. I do have anti-drinking extended family members, but my own parents were the wine at dinner, margaritas for socializing kinds of drinkers, etc., yet I rarely drink at all.

I was waiting for this to be mentioned! 

Drinking is such a complicated one to make judgements based on because there's so many different factors that go into it. 

Someone can think drinking is wrong or bad and still drink but feel shame about it. 

Someone can think drinking is wrong but accept that other people do it

Someone can think it's wrong but condemn others for choosing to drink 

Someone can have no moral opinion on it but choose not to for personal reasons 

Someone can have no moral opinion and be unable to drink for health reasons

Heck I've fallen into lots of these categories at different points. 

Someone in the last thread talked about the changes Jill was making being less superficial than Alyssa Bates. I do think that one thing Alyssa and John have going for them is that John (and Alyssa) have at least...worked since being married (air conditioning and cleaning.) Oddly enough since they are still on TV I don't get the same sense of entitlement from them that I do from Dereck. 

[SassyPants]

The married Bates all have a working adult member (beyond the show) because Gil doesn’t have the money to support all of them and their kids. I’m not sure JB’s adult kids or most of their spouses have the skills or inclination necessary to support their families in the manner in which they are accustom. Fingers crossed that DD gets a family supporting job once he’s completed school and passed the bar. 
There are 2 factors at work (pun) here. 1 educational level and marketable skill and 2, gumption and tenacity. Most of the Duggars and their spouses are striking out on both. None of the married Bateseseseseses et al are coming up empty in both areas. That’s the difference I see. 
 

TLC and JB investments have made the 2nd generation satiated and lazy. The 2nd generation B’s have not had that luxury. 

[Italiangirl]

I could maybe see the younger Bates have some problem (especially Jub and Jed since they were really young when the family starts to have some more money from the show, but the older and middle B know they have to work for money, the girls have always worked at home and now are seeing their older sibling that have some kind of career (boutique for Carlin, Erin, Withney, and Tori(?) hair saloon or events for Josie, Deputy or sheriff or so for the older brother, plus they have Michael/a example and Chad) I agree that they have seen they have to do something for having money 

[Four is Enough]

16 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Boone's Farm wine?   Cherry Mist? Rum and coke? Muscatell?

Anyone that old?

Boone's Farm Apple Wine, and Boone's Farm Strawberry hill... it was 96 cents a bottle when I drank it in high school. 

[LillyP]

14 hours ago, metheglyn said:

Essentially, beliefs aside, even if they aren't morally opposed to drinking that doesn't necessarily mean they *want* to drink. I do have anti-drinking extended family members, but my own parents were the wine at dinner, margaritas for socializing kinds of drinkers, etc., yet I rarely drink at all.
 

My husband doesn't drink because he grew up with a crazy extended family who are all basically functioning alcoholics, but closer to home his stepdad was an alcoholic and ruined his career and almost their family. He just recognized from an early age he didn't have any interest in it, but he also never really saw people drinking responsibly. I think he's always just had the fear that he didn't want to put himself in a position to follow down that road. That's not to say he hasn't and definitely had his fare share of trying it out in high school and college but just decided it wasn't for him. He's super career driven and very successful in an industry that is pretty rampant with alcohol and partying - and not drinking I think has played a huge part in the jobs he's been able to have. I don't drink with/around him, but do occasionally with friends socially. I have zero problems with alcohol and grew up with it being a normal things and parents who drank responsibly/socially.

That being said, literally ALL our friends and family drink and it's a non issue. We have no problems with it and are always around alcohol - we had a full open bar at our wedding to be good hosts because for us my husband not drinking isn't due to anything other than his own desire not to.

[Baxter]

My father was an alcoholic. He got sober when I was in junior high and has stayed that way for the last 23 years with two small relapses. Although I didn't realize it when I was a kid both his sister and mother were also alcoholics. 

I rarely drink. I never developed a taste for it and I think that is for the best. I don't mind being around people who do but I don't like being around really drunk people. A lot of traumatizing stuff happened right before my father went away for treatment and so I find drunkenness upsetting. But I don't condemn drinking. I had an open bar at my wedding which my parents paid for as they consider that to be part of being a good host. 

I would say one of my biggest concerns is how to pass along the info about the potential hereditary nature of alcoholism to my kids with them understanding the seriousness of it without traumatizing them. I have some time for that though since they are 4 and 1.

[Twirling Dervish]

17 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I vaguely remember a rumor on TWOP about Jim-Bob and Josh going to strip clubs and drinking beers. So my guesses: 

Jim-Bob & Michelle - social drinking for JB, but pretty secretive about it. Michelle might sip a champagne at a baby-shower and pretend she didn't know it was alcoholic. 

Josh - drinks when he's awake, those big gulp plastic cups are not just coke. 

Anna - no drinking, always pregnant or trying to be, and it gives her something to hold over everyone else. 

JB - craft beers at the pilot bars. None for Abbie right now, but when she's not pregnant or breastfeeding, she might have one and make a face. Later she'll experiment with wine mom culture but she's just not into it. No judgment though. 

Jana: no way jose

Jill & Derrick we know, but I don't see them ever both getting beyond slightly buzzed at the same time, due to having actual feelings of responsibility toward their children. Maybe in, like, 6 years things will line up, they will have a babysitter or be on vacation and they will both have a couple of too strong frozen drinks in Hawaii or Florida and spend the night reminicing and laughing, and the morning sick with headaches. 

Jessa & Ben. Ben probably drinks craft brews when out and smokes weed in the basement, Jessa pretends she doesn't know. 

JInger/Jer: pretends he only drinks when it's necessary for networking purposes, yet has a collection of aged scotches and wines that he discusses at length. Jinger giggles and doesn't like the taste. She's pregnant, so she's not drinking. She might have a sip if she's neither pregnant or breastfeeding, but Jer told her it makes women gain weight. Maybe in a few years she'll start having wine mom lunches in California which will never been seen on the internet. I can see her getting a prescription in the future for whatever replaces Xanax. Jer will start staying out later, Felicity will smoke weed in high school with her friends but neither parent will notice her slow slide into rebellion. 

The rest I don't know at all. 

 

 

It's probably a safe bet to assume Josie's not throwing them back, yet. 

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

19 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Boone's Farm wine?   Cherry Mist? Rum and coke? Muscatell?

Anyone that old?

 

My 93 year old Grandmama drinks boone's farm every day. 
I laughed when I found her wine 10 years ago. That was the stuff we giggled about in high school.

[LillyP]

1 hour ago, Twirling Dervish said:

It's probably a safe bet to assume Josie's not throwing them back, yet. 

If was going to bed on a Bates girl dabbling in alcohol it would definitely be Josie...followed by *maybe* Whitney. I think Josie has more mainstream friends, and those who are just average Christians (who wear pants, kiss before marriage, etc) and with the hipster vibe she has going on I could totally see them getting into the craft brewery scene. A couple of years ago I also could have seen Whitney & Zach dabbling in some social drinking while out with friends, because they seemed to be in a phase of having outside-the-family friends through Zach's job. Now Whitney has been pulled back into the trenches with the boutique so I can see them toeing the line to stay on the show.

[EmainMacha]

Well Michelle did take time out after giving birth to Josie to protest a local shop wanting a liquor licence. She wanted to keep their town free from alcohol sales.

Imagine knowing that your mum was so anti-alcohol that she left her micro premie in order to protest it even being available in her town. A pina colada must be a huge step for Jill.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/12/michelle-duggar-protest-has-locals-arms/

(Not a comment on people not being at NICU with their babies 24/7. But, considering the entire family moved to Little Rock, it must have seemed like protesting this shop was very important since otherwise all family life was directed towards Josie)

[mpheels]

18 hours ago, Perrierwithlemon said:

I like to share this clip every time it's somewhat relevant. I even based my username and location on this clip. Please watch it. It's hilarious.

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This scene every time... they were so worriedly about alcohol n the water, and so oblivious of the wine in the fondue ?

[seraaa]

22 hours ago, LillyP said:

I gotta say, I'm impressed with the progress Jill & Derick are making. I know plenty of people like to really focus on the fact that at the core they still have hateful beliefs, but I think it's important to remember that people CAN progress in their thinking - and this at least shows they are moving in a good direction. They're obviously taking counseling/therapy seriously and actually critically thinking and talking about important issues - and making decisions for their family based on what they want not what others think while also reevaluating what they believe

I think this is the really important thing. They still might choose all the same beliefs, and never change them, but it would be a product of their own decisions. And the stance they have adopted now means they are open to experiencing the world on their own terms and aren't following a pre-determined list of rules or practices just because.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by seraaa

[Grace]

6 hours ago, mpheels said:

This scene every time... they were so worriedly about alcohol n the water, and so oblivious of the wine in the fondue ?

I kind of agree with them though....I do not understand carbonated water at all. ?