Dillards 83: WTG JILL - PUBLIC SCHOOL!!!

[Giraffe]

Thanks for clarifying when school starts. I was confused by this, too, because it seemed like areal” enrollment for others, too, not just the D’s suddenly deciding he’s going to start school. This makes me happy about it because it so intentional. It’s not just them waking up one day and deciding he’s going to kinder (which is what I thought it was). 

[nokidsmom]

3 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

JB also had to have known this could come out. He knew it had resulted in at least one canceled tv appearance with Oprah

Yes, knowing that it got out there enough to result in a cancelled appearance, plus being told by law enforcement to bring Josh in for an interview as a result, JB should have had anticipated that it was a ticking time bomb beyond his control.  So maybe it was best to talk about it beforehand in a way that might be a lot gentler compared taking the chance that his future son in law might learn about it via some other more unpleasant means, which is what happened.

I get that in normal family dynamics this should be something that should be left to Jill to talk about.  But she and her sisters were controlled in every way during their lives, including how they should respond to their being molested which was clearly "forgive and forget".   How could she even know how to approach this, even if JB told her she could discuss it?  Not to mention the confusion after being told to "forgive", having to continue to live with her abuser and carry on like nothing happened?   

Getting ahead of this, even in a vague JB "Duggarspeak" way might have been better and kinder to both Jill and Derick as opposed how it eventually came out.   Not ideal by any means, but better than what eventually happened. 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by nokidsmom

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I remember when Derick put his arm around Jill in Nepal, and JB got between them. Seriously? They were going to have sex right there in the street if he hadn't intervened? I don't understand, they raise their children, then can't trust them to even have dinner in a restaurant unchaperoned. Too many contradictions in their life style.

I feel like that move was 100 percent for the cameras. Not that they would have left them alone together but the getting in between them was fully staged IMO. 

I genuinely think IBLP teaching is so backward on abuse/victimization that I don’t think it would ever cross their minds to disclose this fully - with or without the girls’ permission - or that it would somehow factor into marriage. I mean in their teaching women don’t really have consent even in marriage...

Maybe deep down they were covering up something but I imagine they told enough in Christian speak to testify to Josh being forgiven and moving on. Maybe the girls would also testify if their faith was somehow strengthened, but I think it was more like how Jessa originally responded - they downplayed it, girls were asleep, happens in every family, etc. 

Believe me, I’m not excusing them. I simply think they are operating in such an alternate reality they were genuinely shocked at everyone’s “overreaction” when the abuse came out. I imagine they never even called it abuse. That’s the vibe I got from the Megan Kelly interview at least. 

[MathQueen]

I think it’s fantastic news like everyone else, but I’m wondering about something which I haven’t seen anyone else mention yet...
Isn’t this an unusual time to enroll a child in Kindergarten? Doesn’t that normally occur in August or September? I guess it’s better than waiting more than half a year, but why the strange timing?
A few people have mentioned Jill being overwhelmed - is there something concrete we know on this point, which could be the reason for it? I’ve only followed the Dillards off and on lately (too many fundies, too little spare time LOL), so maybe there are some things I don’t know. 
Basically, while Kindergarten for Izzy is a great thing, I hope everything is otherwise okay with them.

Kindergarten “roundups” are pretty common in the spring. They are designed to count all possible students that plan to come to a particular school in kindergarten the next year. In this way, a school district can make staffing and facility plans. I taught in a small rural school for many years, and getting k students signed up early helps determine if there is a need to hire or let go of staff. For example, if there were fewer kindergartners coming in the next year, they would have to move a teacher out of a kindergarten position to take another available one, if possible, rather than letting the teacher go. If there were lots of new kindergartners coming in, the school could juggle the staff to provide an extra kindergarten classroom and teacher or hire a new teacher if total numbers were too high. There are state regulations regarding class sizes that are tied into funding, so it’s important. There are a lot of considerations regarding staffing, classroom availability, and curriculum supplies that need some lead time. I was just a bit surprised at how early they are doing the round up at Izzy’s school. But since it’s such a high achieving school, I suspect they also are looking at how many transfers they can take in, as well. I bet they have a waiting list.

[nokidsmom]

27 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Believe me, I’m not excusing them. I simply think they are operating in such an alternate reality they were genuinely shocked at everyone’s “overreaction” when the abuse came out. I imagine they never even called it abuse. That’s the vibe I got from the Megan Kelly interview at least. 

I got the same feeling from the Kelly interview too, they all seemed shocked at the public reaction.  That it somehow wasn't a big deal. 

As I posted above, JB should have gotten a clue when the Oprah taping/showing was suddenly scrapped and they had to take Josh to meet with law enforcement.  That should have shown him that this information had its way of getting out and there are ramifications even if in his world he thought it was "it was all taken care of".  

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I remember when Derick put his arm around Jill in Nepal, and JB got between them. Seriously? They were going to have sex right there in the street if he hadn't intervened? I don't understand, they raise their children, then can't trust them to even have dinner in a restaurant unchaperoned. Too many contradictions in their life style.

I could understand JB not letting her go alone to Nepal. I could even understand him not letting her stay over at his place. But seriously he put his arm around her? Such a normal thing for two people who were digging each other. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

Yes, knowing that it got out there enough to result in a cancelled appearance, plus being told by law enforcement to bring Josh in for an interview as a result, JB should have had anticipated that it was a ticking time bomb beyond his control.  So maybe it was best to talk about it beforehand in a way that might be a lot gentler compared taking the chance that his future son in law might learn about it via some other more unpleasant means, which is what happened.

I get that in normal family dynamics this should be something that should be left to Jill to talk about.  But she and her sisters were controlled in every way during their lives, including how they should respond to their being molested which was clearly "forgive and forget".   How could she even know how to approach this, even if JB told her she could discuss it?  Not to mention the confusion after being told to "forgive", having to continue to live with her abuser and carry on like nothing happened?   

Getting ahead of this, even in a vague JB "Duggarspeak" way might have been better and kinder to both Jill and Derick as opposed how it eventually came out.   Not ideal by any means, but better than what eventually happened. 

 

 

I agree 100%! JB and M bear the responsibility for the molestations (they essentially allowed it to happen without protecting their daughters and getting Josh actual treatment) and then stunted their victimized children, making them unable to discuss what had happened to them with their spouses. They also stunted Josh, of course. I don’t excuse him in any way, but he should have received treatment and he shouldn’t have been married off still almost a teenager. 

Regarding Jill and Jessa not telling their fiancés about what Josh had done to them, I have a couple of thoughts: 

Firstly, expressing sexual desires in a new relationship is difficult, no matter how liberal someone was raised. Discussing such personal topics hardly ever comes easy in the beginning. For Jill and the other married Duggar children, this was complicated further by two imposed rules: They weren’t allowed any unsupervised time alone with their partners before their marriages and couldn’t have physical intimacy of any sort. So, how could they have talked about a topic that isn’t just slightly embarrassing but otherwise normal and fun but that’s actually traumatic before even being at liberty to talk about anything sexual and enjoyable? 

Secondly, how can you bring up a topic as hurtful as your own story of sexual molestation with someone you’re supposed to marry, but don’t yet know well? How were Jill and Jessa even supposed to discuss to topic with Derick and Ben while lacking privacy and even a basic level of physical intimacy? The two girls (and I’m not using the therm “women” here because they were simultaneously infantilized and pimped out by their parents) had no chance. 

Thirdly, their courtships were oh TV. Im sure anything that could have led them to break up was avoided for the sake of the Duggars’ public image. JB wanted the two couples to tie the knot, so Jill and Jessa had to play their part in the arrangement. This isn’t to say they didn’t want to, but they didn’t have a realistic chance to say no either. 

[MathQueen]

Full disclosure, I do not have a mental Math brain. I think you just clarified why I had so much trouble in Math (I’m old and was taught Math by nuns in the 60s and early 70s). I’m now wondering if the nuns just cut out step when they were teaching because they did not know how to Verbally communicate what they had already solved for in their heads. This makes so much sense, because as long as the steps where clearly provided/ shown, I would get the concepts, but then a number would appear and the teacher would be unable to explain how that number was derived. This about drove me insane in HS Math. 

Yes! There is a difference between knowing the content and being able to teach it well. Single subject teachers were math majors. They understood it, and it is often difficult for some of them to understand why you just don’t get it. Multiple subject teachers (elementary grades) tend not to have a strong math content background. So when teaching, the steps are often not clear. This the reason I’m so glad for common core mathematics , where teachers and students are expected to learn and use multiple representations of solutions. The picture shows four representations of a two digit addition with regrouping problem I just quickly sketched to show you what I mean. The top one is using a number line. On the left is counting base 10 blocks (tens and ones). The middle one is adding ones, then tens, then the sum. On the right is the standard algorithm, which is the only way I was taught. You can see how much real number understanding has occurred and is demonstrated when you are using representations that show the grouping of tens and ones, rather than just “carrying the one“. These are common representations taught to second grade students as they extend their understanding of place value.

Well, as Mr.Math says, enough boring teacher stuff. However, it does make me know that Jill will be encountering skills beyond her education sooner, rather than later. I am hopeful that she will take advantage of filling the holes in her own knowledge, and then take seek further education. It seems to be something she values.

[Cheetah]

3 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Not sure what you mean here: they didn’t have to show any work, just an answer, or show some unorthodox method to get the correct answer?

My husband teaches college statistics and when I see what he’s grading, work is always shown.

 

 

 

I did a phd in physics (lots of math in that field).  We always showed our work - we'd leave everything in terms of the variables until the last step before plugging numbers in.  That way we'd get partial credit if the final answer was wrong but we'd only screwed up something minor in simplifying.  

[mpheels]

27 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

I did a phd in physics (lots of math in that field).  We always showed our work - we'd leave everything in terms of the variables until the last step before plugging numbers in.  That way we'd get partial credit if the final answer was wrong but we'd only screwed up something minor in simplifying.  

Same here - I did a PhD in a quantitative social science field. I always had to show my work for statistics classes, either with hand written notation or by producing a copy of my code/output from a stats software package (SAS, Stata or R, depending on the class).

Showing the work is important in early grades to make sure kids understand the concept and are not just using rote memorization or a calculator. Math concepts build on each other and it’s tough to move on to more complex math if you don’t understand what addition and subtraction are actually *doing*. I predate common core/new math, but ended up teaching myself the regrouping concepts @MathQueen cited above. I suck at rote memorization and could never learn my multiplication tables. I taught my self to regroup and add in my head so I could compensate. 

[Born Skeptic]

5 hours ago, FunDieDumDum said:

Isn’t this an unusual time to enroll a child in Kindergarten? Doesn’t that normally occur in August or September? I guess it’s better than waiting more than half a year, but why the strange timing?

Kindergarten registration is going on in the public schools around me.  It gives the school time to assess the kids and start the process if they need additional services like OT, PT, speech therapy or even gifted services.  Of course, schools start here - and much of the south - in August.

 

[grandmadugger]

5 hours ago, FunDieDumDum said:

I think it’s fantastic news like everyone else, but I’m wondering about something which I haven’t seen anyone else mention yet...

Isn’t this an unusual time to enroll a child in Kindergarten? Doesn’t that normally occur in August or September? I guess it’s better than waiting more than half a year, but why the strange timing?

A few people have mentioned Jill being overwhelmed - is there something concrete we know on this point, which could be the reason for it? I’ve only followed the Dillards off and on lately (too many fundies, too little spare time LOL), so maybe there are some things I don’t know. 

Basically, while Kindergarten for Izzy is a great thing, I hope everything is otherwise okay with them.

How it works here and I suspect is very similar to Jill & Derrick’s area. 
 

One morning in the spring we have kindergarten roundup. Parents and students attend. The student goes to the classroom and they do an activity and have snack. The parents meet with the principal and support staff to learn more about the paperwork needed to start school, health assessments, and services offered. The parents also can turn in any paperwork that they have. They also learn about different assessments that the kids do and the ones we ask them to do at home. The afternoon is for IEP meetings and preschool transition meetings. 
 

It is entirely possible that this school has multiple roundups. Like Izzy would go with others who didn’t go to preschool. 

[princessmahina]

5 hours ago, feministxtian said:

When I was in college (and even now, with 3 kids in college), not one of their professors in a math class gives a damn how they get the answer as long as its the right one. 

My kids went to school in Newport News VA. Check the stats on it, specifically Warwick High School. 

I would expect a teacher to be able to write/spell things correctly. Look, I'm just a dumbass redneck with a 2 year tech degree and I could write better than these teachers. 

The schools are a HUGE part of the problem...the parents are the other part. And the kids who are out of the ordinary lose out. 

I was zoned for Warwick if we had stayed in VA and heard nothing but bad things about it. A friends mom was a home ec teacher there and after a year, said there was no way she would send any of her kids there. I think it’s awful that so many schools are like that. 

[CheeseGirl]

6 hours ago, feministxtian said:

That's some bullshit right there...college? They don't give a fuck how you got the answer. Social Skills? How the hell can you learn "social skills" when it's like a riot on a daily basis, bomb threats, gangs? You're too busy trying to avoid attention so you don't get your ass beat. Bullying, semi-illiterate teachers, fuck that noise...I can't tell you how many teachers' notes I sent back with the grammar corrected. I talked to the teachers in my family and they all sort of shrugged their shoulders...

I can't speak for everyone else, but my and my family's college experience required showing work, as did all education leading up to it.  It didn't matter if the subject was math, chemistry or social sciences.  Even in subjects that had no math equations, you had to 'show your work' by properly citing sources or be in danger of plagiarizing.  

I don't know how you can learn anything in the settings you describe.  School systems are woefully underfunded and lacking resources to battle all the things you mention.  I was trying to make the point that things like social skills SHOULD be part of formal education in addition to learning math and facts etc.  I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.  I was also specifically referencing my husband's situation;  his was in the early 90's  at a private college-prep school. In his particular situation, gangs and bomb threats etc. were not something that were prohibiting him learning social skills.  Again, I agree with you that schools today are in desperate need of major help.

P.S.  2 year degrees, tech degrees and all other vocational certifications should never be diminished.  I respect your degree and the expertise that represents.  Maybe I misunderstood your sarcasm.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Online enrollment opened on February 15th for our district. I know this because I enrolled my younger son. I also have to bring in paperwork and stuff at some point this spring as well. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

8 hours ago, feministxtian said:

When I was in college (and even now, with 3 kids in college), not one of their professors in a math class gives a damn how they get the answer as long as its the right one.

Interesting! I have several math lecturer friends and this is not how it's done here. If you just mark on right answer, you tend to mark low because one mistake along the way gives you zero. We typically do 1 mark per line of math. So if you make one mistake, you get 5/6 or whatever.

Of course, marking on the right answer is faster. So maybe used in large unis with little TA support?

[CheeseGirl]

Public school also means Jill and Derick will continue vaccinating their children ?

[AussieKrissy]

8 hours ago, FunDieDumDum said:

Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that he was enrolled and already starting now rather than in the fall. Haven’t been able to watch the video yet, can’t do the audio at the moment without disturbing others.

so next fall as in 2021 fall, not 2020 fall 

[Not that josh's mom]

His school will start in August 2020.  I've wondered if kids aren't a bit confused by registering, going to the school and all that, then waiting six months to actually start school. I understand why it's done that way, just feel sorry for kids who are so excited and then nothing happens for so long. 

[JanasTattooParlor]

 I am a current public high school math teacher and my students 100% know that they have to show work to get full credit for an answer because if they just put a number there is no way that I know they didn’t cheat and copy it from someone else or use their phone to get it despite my constant watching for phones. I don’t remember who said it above about telling their students that showing their work teaches them how to explain complex problems better, but that is the same thing I tell my students because that is a skill that is necessary in most jobs. My Geometry students are currently writing proofs for the first time and I am constantly reminding them that they need to write out every step of the proof because someone should be able to read their proof and easily be able to follow the logical argument they’ve created, and someone can’t do that if they do not write out every step. I am sorry to hear that your children had poor experiences in school @feministxtian but I can assure you that not all, and I would venture to say not most, high schools have gang activity and bomb threats that impede the educational process. In my time both as a student and as a teacher who has taught in multiple districts, I have never experienced either of those things. I will agree with the trend I’m seeing that parents do seem to care less about their children’s education than they used to though because I’ve had numerous occasions where I have emailed a parent to inform them that their child has not made up or turned in an assignment and they just allow their child to leave it in the grade book as a 0. That astounds me since I have students that would rather take a 0 for not making up a test than actually taking the test. 
 

Sorry for how long this is, education is my soapbox if you couldn’t tell ?

Edited February 27, 2020 by JanasTattooParlor
Added comment

[SassyPants]

23 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

 I am a current public high school math teacher and my students 100% know that they have to show work to get full credit for an answer because if they just put a number there is no way that I know they didn’t cheat and copy it from someone else or use their phone to get it despite my constant watching for phones. I don’t remember who said it above about telling their students that showing their work teaches them how to explain complex problems better, but that is the same thing I tell my students because that is a skill that is necessary in most jobs. My Geometry students are currently writing proofs for the first time and I am constantly reminding them that they need to write out every step of the proof because someone should be able to read their proof and easily be able to follow the logical argument they’ve created, and someone can’t do that if they do not write out every step. I am sorry to hear that your children had poor experiences in school @feministxtian but I can assure you that not all, and I would venture to say not most, high schools have gang activity and bomb threats that impede the educational process. In my time both as a student and as a teacher who has taught in multiple districts, I have never experienced either of those things. I will agree with the trend I’m seeing that parents do seem to care less about their children’s education than they used to though because I’ve had numerous occasions where I have emailed a parent to inform them that their child has not made up or turned in an assignment and they just allow their child to leave it in the grade book as a 0. That astounds me since I have students that would rather take a 0 for not making up a test than actually taking the test. 
 

Sorry for how long this is, education is my soapbox if you couldn’t tell ?

Because of the steps involved in writing proofs, I actually enjoyed Geometry because it made sense to me. I could “see” and read the reason behind each step of the Math problem.

[grandmadugger]

I hated proofs!!! Why do I know it is a square? I watched Sesame Street and graduated kindergarten. That’s how I know! I was a smartass student and would include snark in my proofs. Like the purple people eater ate a baked potato that was perpendicular to the rhombus and then the proof for the rhombus.  

[Born Skeptic]

3 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Of course, marking on the right answer is faster. So maybe used in large unis with little TA support?

Two of my children are currently attending one of the largest public universities in the US.  Both have taken significant amounts of mathematics, statistics, and mathematics heavy research courses.  I asked them if it the courses were structured so that they didn't have to show their work and could just write down the correct answer.  They both laughed and then explained that it would be nearly impossible to correctly solve most of the equations without working through the formulas - which would include writing it down.  .

[Ali]

8 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

I hated proofs!!! Why do I know it is a square? I watched Sesame Street and graduated kindergarten. That’s how I know! I was a smartass student and would include snark in my proofs. Like the purple people eater ate a baked potato that was perpendicular to the rhombus and then the proof for the rhombus.  

I teach high school geometry and I have a student who puts down sarcastic answers like yours. It is hard keeping a straight face sometimes. 

I tell myself students I am not their algebra teacher, so if they understand the geometry and set the problem up correctly, they get at least half credit. I like to see where their error or errors happened. It helps me know if I need to spend more time reviewing algebra.

I expect my students to show their work. I know some of my students can do the work in their heads. I have watched them do it. Just like you need to learn how to put sentences down on paper, you need to learn to put math down on paper. 

Secondary education is pushing trades and vocational training more right now, so making a big deal out of not have a college degree is pure ignorance. My district has multiple programs for students who do not want to take the college route. I have not met a teacher who would not be supportive of students pursuing a a trade and  not going to college.

[fundiefollower]

12 hours ago, CheeseGirl said:

Public school also means Jill and Derick will continue vaccinating their children ?

Not necessarily.  In my state it is very easy to get a waiver from immunization requirements.  Basically you either mark that you are opting out for medical,  religious reasons, or personal belief (philosophic/moral).  That's it. 

I have a couple of friends who don't vax (we do not ever discuss that topic any more) and they have had zero issues from the school system.